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Thread: Ruger SuperRed Hawk miss fires

  1. #1

    Default Ruger SuperRed Hawk miss fires

    I have two Red hawks one 44 mag and one 454. I was shooting the 454 at the range a couple weeks ago and had several miss fires. I thought it might be because I was using CCI SRM primers. I usually just use CCI small rifle primers. After several minuets I looked at the primers on the miss fires and it seemed the dent was shallow. I took the gun home took it apart and cleaned and inspected then put back together. I went back out to the range today with new loads and I used Rem 7.5 primers instead of CCI mag primers. Had the same problem with miss fires. About one in every 4-5 shots do not go off!!! I have shot hundreds of rounds through this pistol with no problems before now. When I look at the transfer bar it does not cover the entire firing pin as my 44 Red hawk does. I would say about a 1/4 to 1/3 of the firing pin is above the transfer bar at full cock. Not sure if this is a problem. Has anyone had this problem?

    Thanks,

  2. #2
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    Default A bad case of Rugeritis....

    I have had dozens of Redhawks in my hands (that I've fired) and never had a one misfire. Even after I put in lighter main springs to improve the trigger pull. Of the Super Redhawks I've had hold of, 44's and 454, most failed to fire at least a time or two, the 454's all do when using the tougher CCI's and some with the 7 1/2 Rem and even Federal small rifle primers. I think the firing pin is too short and/or the transfer bar is too thick. The transfer bar should fully cover the firing pin when the trigger is held back. Try that (unload the gun first) as you hold the hammer and let it down slowly with the trigger back. I have fixed these guns in different ways. Replacing the firing pin with one by Hamilton Bowen that is longer, or file of the hammer nose about .010"-.015". The hammer nose comes into contact with the frame to stop travel if the transfer bar doesn't cover the firing pin.

    It is likely a combination of lighter mainspring, thicker transfer bar or transfer binding in some way, hammer nose or the firing pin length. It's just a Ruger.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  3. #3

    Wink Misfires

    Thanks for the advice. I did watch the transfer bar as I lowered the hammer and it does not fully cover the firing pin. Maybe it would be worth replacing the transfer bar. I have shot thousands of rounds through my 44 mag Redhawk and have never has it fail to fire. I really don't want to be hunting on the north side of the Brooks with a firearm that might not shoot!!! I am not sure what I am going to do at this point but it will either be working or replaced before September.

  4. #4

    Default

    It's just a Ruger???

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    Default Two courses of action

    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Hunter View Post
    I have two Red hawks one 44 mag and one 454. I was shooting the 454 at the range a couple weeks ago and had several miss fires. I thought it might be because I was using CCI SRM primers. I usually just use CCI small rifle primers. After several minuets I looked at the primers on the miss fires and it seemed the dent was shallow. I took the gun home took it apart and cleaned and inspected then put back together. I went back out to the range today with new loads and I used Rem 7.5 primers instead of CCI mag primers. Had the same problem with miss fires. About one in every 4-5 shots do not go off!!! I have shot hundreds of rounds through this pistol with no problems before now. When I look at the transfer bar it does not cover the entire firing pin as my 44 Red hawk does. I would say about a 1/4 to 1/3 of the firing pin is above the transfer bar at full cock. Not sure if this is a problem. Has anyone had this problem?

    Thanks,
    Pistol Hunter,

    Sorry to hear you have a gun that does not work perfectly. It happens, sometimes. Sigh.

    Solution 1: Try switching the transfer bars between the two Super Redhawks and see if the symptom follows the part. Maybe the pistol primers, easier to ignite, might not be so sensitive to a short transfer bar.

    Solution 2: Send the offending firearm back to Ruger and let them make it right.

    Good luck.

    Lost Sheep (Larry)

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    It's just a Ruger???
    AW, just kidding. I love 'em. maybe I should have said it's just a super Redhawk. You don't see these problems with a Redhawk or a Blackhawk.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  7. #7
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    Default

    It would be nice to know if a different (longer) transfer bar would fix the problem. I don't think I've ever replaced a transfer bar to correct this malady. I don't have a super here to look over just my Redhawk. It is funny we never hear of the misfire problem with a Redhawk just the super. There have been several on this forum about it and I think most if not all of these were 454's. But naturally the use of thicker rifle primers would make it more common if the lock work, for what ever reason, were marginal. The Ruger parts are pretty cheap from Brownells if you just want to try to fix it.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    AW, just kidding. I love 'em. maybe I should have said it's just a super Redhawk. You don't see these problems with a Redhawk or a Blackhawk.
    No worries, I knew you were kiddin

    Which brings up another question... In another thread, you said you were *covetous* of my Redhawk 41, so I checked the Ruger site and apparantley the 41 cal is no longer offered, which I think is unfortunate cause the 41 is a great cal. When did they stop making them and are they a collector's item?

  9. #9

    Default

    This happened to me on my s&w 500. The strain screw backed out on it's own and was causing more and more light primer strikes. I tightened it back up and problem fixed! I've just shared all my gunsmithing knowledge with you. Good luck.

    AK

  10. #10

    Default Ordering parts

    First of all thanks for the information. I have a question. If I ordered a new transfer bar and maybe a mainspring why would I order from Brownells and not Ruger? I assume that would be the two parts I would want to replace first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    It would be nice to know if a different (longer) transfer bar would fix the problem. I don't think I've ever replaced a transfer bar to correct this malady. I don't have a super here to look over just my Redhawk. It is funny we never hear of the misfire problem with a Redhawk just the super. There have been several on this forum about it and I think most if not all of these were 454's. But naturally the use of thicker rifle primers would make it more common if the lock work, for what ever reason, were marginal. The Ruger parts are pretty cheap from Brownells if you just want to try to fix it.
    Last edited by Pistol Hunter; 04-21-2008 at 17:23. Reason: spelling

  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Hunter View Post
    First of all thanks for the information. I have a question. If I ordered a new transfer bar and maybe a mainspring why would I order from Brownells and not Ruger? I assume that would be the two parts I would want to replace first.
    SRH parts.
    KW00401 Main spring 15#, $1.50
    KH01700 Transfer bar, $5.50

    Ah, I guess you wouldn't, sorry.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  12. #12
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    Default Transfer bar or hammer block

    S&W uses a block that retracts when the hammer is being cocked and is fully in position when the trigger is pulled. With the Rugers the transfer bar is being moved into place as the hammer is being cocked and moves even more as the trigger is being pulled to fire or at least on my guns it does. The extra movement of the transfer bar results in a heavier and less crisp trigger pull than when the trigger is only releasing the hammer.

    I have to give the S&W the nod as to design of the lock work. In addition to the better trigger pull the hammer hitting on the firing pin is a inherently more reliable than putting a transfer bar in between the two.

    In shooting many S&Ws over 50 years or so I don't recall any misfires except when the hammer spring tension screw had been backed off to lightened the trigger pull.

    Perhaps there is a good reason the S&Ws cost more?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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  13. #13

    Default Ruger reliability

    Up until two weeks ago I would have told you that in over thirty years of owning Ruger pistols I had never had a malfunction. My Super blackhawk I shot thousands of rounds through with no problems. I purchased a super Redhawk (44mag) about 15 years ago and it has functioned flawlessly for thousands of heavy cast (315gr) reloads as well. All three of my Rugers have proved to be very accurate pistols. Having said all this my 454 has let me down ( Pardon my ignorance but are you suggesting I check the hammer spring tension screw on my Ruger? Does one exist on a Ruger?
    I did buy a new S&W 1911 about 2 months ago and I have really enjoyed it. Its a fine shooting 45.

    Thanks for the info,

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    S&W uses a block that retracts when the hammer is being cocked and is fully in position when the trigger is pulled. With the Rugers the transfer bar is being moved into place as the hammer is being cocked and moves even more as the trigger is being pulled to fire or at least on my guns it does. The extra movement of the transfer bar results in a heavier and less crisp trigger pull than when the trigger is only releasing the hammer.

    I have to give the S&W the nod as to design of the lock work. In addition to the better trigger pull the hammer hitting on the firing pin is a inherently more reliable than putting a transfer bar in between the two.

    In shooting many S&Ws over 50 years or so I don't recall any misfires except when the hammer spring tension screw had been backed off to lightened the trigger pull.

    Perhaps there is a good reason the S&Ws cost more?

  14. #14

    Default I need to Fix it !!!

    Thanks for all your help. This is the 1st time I have used one of these forums so I am in learning mode!!! I will order these parts and go from there. I am not sure what you mean by SRH parts. I looked up the spring (KW00401) at Brownells and it listed it as 44mag spring. I noticed that Ruger list a different spring ( KY00400) for the 454. I assumed for the heavier rifle primers. Does it matter? Hope you don't mind all the questions.

    Thanks again

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    SRH parts.
    KW00401 Main spring 15#, $1.50
    KH01700 Transfer bar, $5.50

    Ah, I guess you wouldn't, sorry.
    Last edited by Pistol Hunter; 04-22-2008 at 00:26. Reason: Looked up Spring

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Hunter View Post
    Thanks for all your help. This is the 1st time I have used one of these forums so I am in learning mode!!! I will order these parts and go from there. I am not sure what you mean by SRH parts. I looked up the spring (KW00401) at Brownells and it listed it as 44mag spring. I noticed that Ruger list a different spring ( KY00400) for the 454. I assumed for the heavier rifle primers. Does it matter? Hope you don't mind all the questions.

    Thanks again
    Since I don't like being ignorant I jumped into this a little further this morning.

    I called Ruger and asked about these parts. I've done that about forty dozen times and if you don't mind their hold music it usually goes quite well, (603-865-2442) I asked about SRH (Super RedHawk) main springs.

    I've bought bunches from Ruger and from Brownells (they come in the Ruger packaging, so they are official Ruger parts.) The only spring that Brownells has listed for the SRH is one and it is the KW00401, This is the number I have on my Ruger parts list that came with the 454 revolver I had for a while. (a few years old) It is also the same number that is on the SRH parts list for the 44 mag. Hmmmm.........Is your SRH newer? Well...............

    The lady's voice at the other end of the phone in Connecticut, or New Hampshire said there are two different springs, one for the 44, KW00401 and one for the 454 and the 480 Ruger, KY00400. I asked what is the weight of these two different springs? "We don't have that information."

    Brownells also told me this morning that they only have one main spring listed for all calibers in the SRH and that is the Ruger part number KW00401. The one they have always had) They also list Wolfe spring kits (normally for lighter springs to improve trigger pull) with those kits in different places in the catalog they say factory spring is 14# pounds and at another place they say factory spring is 15#. ?? Wolfe has no XP (extra power) available, as they do for some guns.

    Maybe the springs have changed because of ignition problems. Maybe they have always been different and sometimes they get the wrong one in the assembly process. I do know there is/was many ignition problems with the 454 Casull SRH revolvers.

    Get out your visa card and call the sweet lady at Ruger and order at least two of each of these different springs. They are only .75, they used to be $2.25 each from Ruger. Also the transfer bar (this item is listed as one and only one for the SRH or the RH in Brownell's catalog.) I didn't ask Ruger about them they may have changed also. Why two of each. So you can send one to the next guy that has 454 ignition problems. And each different spring can be used to test to see if your problem can be duplicated by swapping springs. I think that is called education.


    Oh, yes the type of primer matters. Rifle primers are made of a thicker cup because normally rifles operate at much higher pressure than handguns. The 454 operates at rifle pressures, (65,000 psi) higher than some rifles. Have fun with this.

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  16. #16

    Default Ruger Springs

    I can't believe you spent all that time on this issue. I really appreciate your help. When I said, does it matter, I was referring to the main spring. I realize the reason the 454 was developed with small rifle primeres and never use pistol primers. The place I found the different spring listed for the 454 and 480 was the Ruger WEB site. I bought my 454 either the 1st or 2nd year they came out and the manual only list one spring as well. I have been really happy with the accuracy of the SRH 454. After I purchased Warne rings I could even keep a scope on it and shoot out to hundred yards. I will order the parts this week and let you know the results. Thanks again,
    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Since I don't like being ignorant I jumped into this a little further this morning.

    I called Ruger and asked about these parts. I've done that about forty dozen times and if you don't mind their hold music it usually goes quite well, (603-865-2442) I asked about SRH (Super RedHawk) main springs.

    I've bought bunches from Ruger and from Brownells (they come in the Ruger packaging, so they are official Ruger parts.) The only spring that Brownells has listed for the SRH is one and it is the KW00401, This is the number I have on my Ruger parts list that came with the 454 revolver I had for a while. (a few years old) It is also the same number that is on the SRH parts list for the 44 mag. Hmmmm.........Is your SRH newer? Well...............

    The lady's voice at the other end of the phone in Connecticut, or New Hampshire said there are two different springs, one for the 44, KW00401 and one for the 454 and the 480 Ruger, KY00400. I asked what is the weight of these two different springs? "We don't have that information."

    Brownells also told me this morning that they only have one main spring listed for all calibers in the SRH and that is the Ruger part number KW00401. The one they have always had) They also list Wolfe spring kits (normally for lighter springs to improve trigger pull) with those kits in different places in the catalog they say factory spring is 14# pounds and at another place they say factory spring is 15#. ?? Wolfe has no XP (extra power) available, as they do for some guns.

    Maybe the springs have changed because of ignition problems. Maybe they have always been different and sometimes they get the wrong one in the assembly process. I do know there is/was many ignition problems with the 454 Casull SRH revolvers.

    Get out your visa card and call the sweet lady at Ruger and order at least two of each of these different springs. They are only .75, they used to be $2.25 each from Ruger. Also the transfer bar (this item is listed as one and only one for the SRH or the RH in Brownell's catalog.) I didn't ask Ruger about them they may have changed also. Why two of each. So you can send one to the next guy that has 454 ignition problems. And each different spring can be used to test to see if your problem can be duplicated by swapping springs. I think that is called education.


    Oh, yes the type of primer matters. Rifle primers are made of a thicker cup because normally rifles operate at much higher pressure than handguns. The 454 operates at rifle pressures, (65,000 psi) higher than some rifles. Have fun with this.

    There is a turnip truck in my history but it's been a while back.

  17. #17
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    Default

    I think the firing pin is too short and/or the transfer bar is too thick
    Wouldn't a thicker transfer bar keep the hammer nose from contacting the frame and thus transfer better to the firing pin? I would think a thin transfer bar would be more problematic than a thick one as the hammer nose may then contact the frame prematurely and not allow for proper impact on the transfer bar?

    Do I have that backwards or do you?

    Also I'm curious about the Hamilton Bowen firing pin. Is it fitted (honed to desired length) or a drop in replacement? Any potential primer problems like piercing? The only pin I can find is their single action pin (part # P100), is that the same as the Super Redhawk pin (Brownell's lists a part number for the single actions KMR02100, but not for the Super Redhawk firing pin)?
    Science has a rich history of proving itself wrong.

  18. #18
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    Default

    Never mind, I see the Bowen firing pin listed, not as an orderable part, but on their double action "menu" as it were.
    Science has a rich history of proving itself wrong.

  19. #19

    Default Ruger's response

    I thought Ruger's respose was interesting. They want to send me a new transfer bar and strut assembly free of charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by RainGull View Post
    Never mind, I see the Bowen firing pin listed, not as an orderable part, but on their double action "menu" as it were.

  20. #20
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RainGull View Post
    Wouldn't a thicker transfer bar keep the hammer nose from contacting the frame and thus transfer better to the firing pin? I would think a thin transfer bar would be more problematic than a thick one as the hammer nose may then contact the frame prematurely and not allow for proper impact on the transfer bar?

    Do I have that backwards or do you?

    Also I'm curious about the Hamilton Bowen firing pin. Is it fitted (honed to desired length) or a drop in replacement? Any potential primer problems like piercing? The only pin I can find is their single action pin (part # P100), is that the same as the Super Redhawk pin (Brownell's lists a part number for the single actions KMR02100, but not for the Super Redhawk firing pin)?
    No I guess I'm wrong, I meant to say a thinner transfer bar would work against us. Thicker would be better to transfer energy to the pin. A thicker bar or longer pin or file off the hammer nose about .010" so it will hit the transfer bar before hitting the frame.

    I don't know if he sells that firing pin or not. He just lists the longer firing pin as one of the many things he does on the various rework packages on the SRH and I think the Redhawk also. But no, there is no issue of any problem with any gun leaving Bowen's shop. I had always just suspected there was a marginal condition with these revolvers or he would not be replacing parts to make them better. He really knows revolvers that is his expertise, he's top notch.
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