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Thread: Use it and lose it all?

  1. #1
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    Default Use it and lose it all?

    This may be a little heavy for discussion and I like to keep things light, but I just finished reading a lot of stories about private citizens and LEO's that have used their weapons to protect themselves or others and have been unjustly charged after the fact. Since there are many here that CCW including myself, it is something that I think about every time I strap it on. The old "there is a lawyer attched to every bullet" line is very true in our society today and it is truly amazing to read about these trials in almost disbelief that they turn out the way they do. The case about the Border Patrol agents as a case in point. I know they did some things wrong, but I think they knew the sh*tstorm that would follow the encounter. If you read about what the BP agents go through every day I really just don't understand how we have any willing to put up with it.
    Long story short, I guess if you are put in the position to use it, you have to be prepared for the outcome. Many of the folks in these cases were ruined financially or worse, but I guess they came out of it alive if that's any consolation.
    One note of interest, many of these people were cleared of the criminal charge, but it was civil case that did them in. Some had bad lawyers and some just had left-wing, anti-gun jurys.
    Sorry for the long post, but it is nice to hear from others of like mind.

  2. #2

    Default

    If it comes down to it, I'd rather pull the gun & use it if I thought I'd die otherwise. Same goes if a loved one was in mortal danger. If the situation really was that bad & I lived through it, I'd probably be so busy being thankful to be alive at first that I wouldn't care once the kimchee hit the fan and my actions were all over the news. After that I'd probably feel traumatized by the incident, and by then the legal system would be spinning its rusty gears with me chained onto them. Then I'd wonder if I really did die and had gone to hell.

    In the old tribal days, everyone knew when you did something bad. They didn't need lawyers for that. Either you paid for it in wealth to save face, or by the second sunset the afflicted party had the right to take twice what you took from them. That included lives. Maybe it was the third or fourth sunset... Dunno if any of it applied to self-defense or not. I think it had to do with whatever side had lost their reputation by the action; shame wouldn't be erased until things were made square again.

    I like the old "live by the sword, die by the sword" adage. I don't go around looking for trouble, and I figure if I keep my nose out of circles it shouldn't be in then the risk of violence is relatively low. I only pack a CCW because it releases me from fear, which is neat because I never thought of myself as fearful to begin with. I'm a happier person now; I smile & talk to strangers more often, and they become friendlier. I think it actually makes me safer because of it.
    Tsimshian tribe, wolf clan, the house of Walsk.

  3. #3

    Default Nonsense

    They weren't tried and found guilty for useing their weapons in self defense. They were tried and covicted of filing a FALSE incident report, and failure to report a shooting.
    This being a federal document, is a prosecuteable offense. LIE to the FEDS and go to JAIL. That's policy.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  4. #4
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    Default

    I understand that they did some things that were wrong. My point is that (IMHO) the whole trial and the zelousness of the prosectution was flawed. We gave amnesty to a drug mule and locked up our LEO's. I believe there were extenuating circumstances and these were not allowed into the trial. There were just some wierd things going on there and the outcome was skewed.
    Several of the incidents that I read about involved the citizen using a caliber or ammo that was considered excessive. One prosecutor claimed that the fact that "the defendant was using "hollow bullets" (hollow points), that are used to inflict maximum damage and a "357 magnum", overly powerful handgun, he had maliciously caused the death of XX".
    Jeez, what would they have said about a S&W 500?

  5. #5

    Default I'm WRONG

    I think I'm talking about a different case, sorry.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  6. #6
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default Wild West Anchorage---YEEEEEHAAWWWW

    On a more serious note, Cinak, I feel where your coming from on this. To tell the truth, I have carried a lot in the last 10 years since I have been in Anchorage. you know, I live really close to where the guy was shot in the head and left to die this past weekend. My wife and I walk our Springer Spaniel by that bridge every day. i try to get the wife to carry, but she thinks everybody is nice I guess. she is interested in it, but a little too carefree about it all. i think with stuff like this getting a little too close to home, she is getting a bit concerned about safety. Frankly, as for packing a gun, it makes me far more comfortable too, and I know what you mean by releasing you from fear. i never was afraid, but apprehensive is more like it. Like most of the rest of you, I avoid areas where I think trouble might arise, and limit where i go during evening and nighttime hours. Does this all sound silly to you?? well, I should hope not. so, your packing a 500 S&W huh?? well, I'll tell you this, to anyone who will listen. If you happen to have to shoot anyone with one of those, I hope you have a dang good lawyer on retainer, because your gonna need him, real bad. The DA is gonna have you for lunch. There are so many stories about folks, LEO's included who have had to shoot someone, and gotten thrown into prison because of it. it would boggle the mind. i read a lot of gun magazines, maybe 6 or 8 subscriptions worth, and they permeate every issue with stories like that for educational purposes, and I gotta say, that all scares me far more than having to draw my weapon or having to shoot someone. My fear is that if I had to, the system will try to hang me unmercifully. that's my worse fear.
    it doesn't stop me from carrying a gun, but it does make me think...


    Quote Originally Posted by Cinak View Post
    This may be a little heavy for discussion and I like to keep things light, but I just finished reading a lot of stories about private citizens and LEO's that have used their weapons to protect themselves or others and have been unjustly charged after the fact. Since there are many here that CCW including myself, it is something that I think about every time I strap it on. The old "there is a lawyer attched to every bullet" line is very true in our society today and it is truly amazing to read about these trials in almost disbelief that they turn out the way they do. The case about the Border Patrol agents as a case in point. I know they did some things wrong, but I think they knew the sh*tstorm that would follow the encounter. If you read about what the BP agents go through every day I really just don't understand how we have any willing to put up with it.
    Long story short, I guess if you are put in the position to use it, you have to be prepared for the outcome. Many of the folks in these cases were ruined financially or worse, but I guess they came out of it alive if that's any consolation.
    One note of interest, many of these people were cleared of the criminal charge, but it was civil case that did them in. Some had bad lawyers and some just had left-wing, anti-gun jurys.
    Sorry for the long post, but it is nice to hear from others of like mind.

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