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Thread: The state is ok with a 1 halibut limit.

  1. #1

    Default The state is ok with a 1 halibut limit.

    The ADF&G thinks that since the one king salmon limit is adequate for recreational anglers then a 1 halibut limit should be just fine also. They have history to draw on that says 1 fish is a good regulation that is easy to enforce. However, a 1 halibut limit in area 2C is only the beginning. They will not allow a 1 fish limit in area 2C (southeast) and a two fish limit in 3A (southcentral) for very long. It can only be effective if 3A and 2C are both 1 fish areas so one area does not have an advantage over another and shifts angler effort to that area.
    All my correspondence with Sarah and her minions about the impending doom associated with a one fish limit for guided halibut fishermen in southeast has simply been ignored. Perhaps its because commissioner Denby S. Lloyd has a long history of working with the commercial fisheries and Deputy commissioner David Bedford served as Director of The SE AK Seiners Association and the governor is a setnetter.

    All sportfishermen need to realize that a one fish limit for halibut is unacceptable as long as 13 million lbs. of wastage occurs every year in the commercial fishery.
    Write the governor and the department and maybe they will listen to you.


  2. #2

    Default

    We catch less than they throw out it is wrong

  3. #3
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    Default

    I was under the impression the feds set the ahlibut limit, not the state. I realize the state might be able to pressure the feds to some extent but isn't it the Pacific Fisheries Board we should also try to pursuade?

  4. #4

    Default Thed make the rules!

    You are right the feds do make the rules but the state will be the enforcer. ADF&G is encouraging the feds to use a bg limit and posession limit restriction because it easier to manage. The 1 fish proposal for 2c is before the secretary of commerce right now because of the encouragement of the department. The state really does not want a limited entry system or guided angler fish system.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill S. View Post
    I was under the impression the feds set the ahlibut limit, not the state. I realize the state might be able to pressure the feds to some extent but isn't it the Pacific Fisheries Board we should also try to pursuade?
    The feds make the rules! The state will be the enforcer on this. A one fish limit and posession limit is easy for them to enforce. They want no part of a limited entry or guided angler fish system as proposed by the industry. The whole thing is a biased mess.

  6. #6
    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Default Are the

    Commercials out to destroy charters in SE? I think so.........

    Look out south central, we are next.

    All the more reason to take away federal management of Alaska's fish and game and return it back to its rightful owners!

    ALASKAN SEA-DUCTION
    1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
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    Default Calling for raw emotions....calling for raw emotions....

    Because you are not talking sense. So I figure it must be raw emotions and worry that are driving what you write.

    Commercial bycatch has NOTHING TO DO WITH HALIBUT SPORT CATCH. So please stop bringing it up. See those fish are in the Bering Sea, the problem (actual biological problems with the biomass) is in the Pacfic Ocean, and more specifically in 2C.. Why not just compare california to your halibut issue.........can Cali anglers catch Pacific halibut? Maybe it's them!!!! They are closer so why not pick on that? Or the Hake fishery off washington?

    So you can blow smoke and all the other under-informed folks can rail against commercial fishermen, but in the end anything you did have to say that is worthwhile (and there are worthwhile issues here such as if different areas can be managed by the state as seperate ((which they can look at salmon regs by region)) will be buried in bullpuckey.

    So go ahead with the anti commerical rants wich have absolutely nothing to do with 2c. Show your true colors.........that you are worried you might be getting screwed so go ahead and screw someone else. Don't discuss any actual solutions...just blow smoke.

    I hope all charter operators can have the best year possible. I don't think tourist will mind one fish as much as some think. I doubt it will ruin the charter operations in Sitka or Juneau much less Homer. If charter operators would have gotten on the ball back in 2004 the last time license limitation was on the table for the NPFMC none of this discussion would be happening. So good luck to you Flatfish, I hope you have a good year. Please though stop using a buzzword like bycatch (in the bering sea) or you are as bad as PETA.

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    Default halibut limits

    All of this sure makes me glad to have a permit in my pocket that allows me to catch 20 halibut per day. (subsistence area) Life is good!

  9. #9
    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Default Little Emotional aren't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    I hope all charter operators can have the best year possible. I don't think tourist will mind one fish as much as some think. I doubt it will ruin the charter operations in Sitka or Juneau much less Homer. If charter operators would have gotten on the ball back in 2004 the last time license limitation was on the table for the NPFMC none of this discussion would be happening. So good luck to you Flatfish, I hope you have a good year. Please though stop using a buzzword like bycatch (in the bering sea) or you are as bad as PETA.
    Charters are nothing more than taxi drivers. To limit the Charters is to limit sport fisherman. Plain and simple. You can't fish on a charter unless you have a license.

    No emotions, just fact. SOME commercial fishermen believe that sport fisherman should ONLY buy their fish from them and not be allowed to catch it themselves. Why is it a fact because they have told us so! Who controls most of the boards………………?

    ALASKAN SEA-DUCTION
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    Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKBassking View Post
    Commercials out to destroy charters in SE? I think so.........

    Look out south central, we are next.
    As someone raised commercial fishing for halibut, I had no idea that I had such nefarious schemes to do away with my friends' and neighbors' charter businesses. Huh, I guess all these years of getting along with them (and even paying them to take me and my relatives fishing) were just a ploy to get them to let their guard down so I can destroy them.

    Us against them, them against us...it's so much easier than actually trying to find solutions.

  11. #11

    Default Just the facts.

    The commercial halibut catch in 2c has been cut by 40% in the past two years. The number of charter boats has steadily increased. What do we do with a higher demand/smaller available resource?

  12. #12

    Default Study the real numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by sitkaspruce View Post
    The number of charter boats has steadily increased.
    Show me the numbers that the charter guys of increased. Every time this gets brought up we say that the charter folks have doubled and have done nothing to regulate them selves...and its bs.

    We have brought items to the board but it gets shot down because like it or not, the commercial folks want to limit competition. If you don't think this is true, then why did 3300 of them loose jobs when the IFQ's passed. It wasn't the charter folks taking them out of the game, it was there fellow COMFISH.

    As per the link attached (second time I've done this), the registered boats in 2C are 948. This can be viewed on page 31. This is down from 2001 which is when it peaked at 1302.

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/Regio...eportfinal.pdf

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    Default

    The one fish limit is only for Charters? not non-guided anglers? That doesn't make much sense. Seems if there is a biological need everyone should share in the restrictions. Sounds like everyone but the non-guided angler is being affected by this.
    And I think the 1 fish limit will come to Southcentral, just a matter of time.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Yukon, I doubt it. Unless the biomass declines up here as well. We have various state regs about King salmon retention and they are not statewide one rule type things. Why think Halibut will be? Unless you are just a pessimest or something?

    Shawn you are right and have posted that number and link many times. Any idea of when/if a big jump occured to get the 1500 guides? Did it ever go from say 500 to 1500 before the year 2000? Or was in incremental over time? I did notice a page after the # of guide boats a table on the average size of halibut. They have steadily gone down (smaller) year after year. That is a biological problem. Something is wrong with the stock there. I'm not a PHD in fisheries but it's an obvious link. So do you think NOTHING needs done? Or something? if something than what? I'd even agree that everyone in 2C should be limited to one fish not just guides.

    Sitkaspruce..........the commercial catch is down as well that is a fact. Given that I always wonder why people keep trying to link this to commercial guys taking guides fish. Makes me wonder if they just want to stir the pot and say things they know will make people mad. Someone asked if I was emotional about this and I'm really not. I do get emotional when people lie. Either intentionally or by omission. Like Linking Bering Sea bycatch levels to 2C problems when they have nothing to do with each other. I'm not trying to say they are bad people either, but have to say something when I see total bull thrown out there.

  15. #15

    Default Heck of a year

    Halibut will really be hurt by a one fish limit for charter boat fishermen. Sport Fishermen will want a bigger grade of halibut to make up for only being able to catch one. I predict a lot more 100lb + spawner Halibut hanging from fish racks this summer.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    So do you think NOTHING needs done? Or something? if something than what? I'd even agree that everyone in 2C should be limited to one fish not just guides.
    Something definitely needs to be done or it will be like the King Crab fishery around Kodiak....gone. I would really like to see more data if that is at all possible, was there ever a huge jump in personalized boats in the past 5-10 years and if so does that have anything to do with it? Just in the past two years I know of 6 friends that all purchased new boats, not used but new and who can blame them considering what a charter costs.

    I do know that there was a large increase around 2001 and from what I don't know. What I do know is that several (probably 40 percent) of Kodiak's charter fleet was once COMFISH and lost out on IFQ's and that is why they are currently chartering.

    If people honestly don't think something needs to be done, they are sadly mistaken. It's about time we all put our differences aside and really come up with a realistic solution.

  17. #17
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    Default

    Would people voluntarily limit themselves if asked? I mean if everyone was aware of the problem, and maybe not everyone is. And they were informed and then asked to only keep one fish would they? I know I would, but I'd also say that halibut is not my favorite fish either. So for me just catching is the fun, not keeping a big halibut. I want to find a way this year to catch rocksole.

    Still Shawn you hit it on the head, that we all need to work together. From guides to rec to comm. From the southeast to southcentral to bristol bay. I am willing to stand up for guides if they are willing to stand up for the resource........and not just guides but all of us. We all need to put the habitat/resource first.

  18. #18

    Default Bycatch comes off the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    Because you are not talking sense. So I figure it must be raw emotions and worry that are driving what you write.

    Commercial bycatch has NOTHING TO DO WITH HALIBUT SPORT CATCH. So please stop bringing it up. See those fish are in the Bering Sea, the problem (actual biological problems with the biomass) is in the Pacfic Ocean, and more specifically in 2C.. Why not just compare california to your halibut issue.........can Cali anglers catch Pacific halibut? Maybe it's them!!!! They are closer so why not pick on that? Or the Hake fishery off washington?

    So you can blow smoke and all the other under-informed folks can rail against commercial fishermen, but in the end anything you did have to say that is worthwhile (and there are worthwhile issues here such as if different areas can be managed by the state as seperate ((which they can look at salmon regs by region)) will be buried in bullpuckey.

    So go ahead with the anti commerical rants wich have absolutely nothing to do with 2c. Show your true colors.........that you are worried you might be getting screwed so go ahead and screw someone else. Don't discuss any actual solutions...just blow smoke.

    I hope all charter operators can have the best year possible. I don't think tourist will mind one fish as much as some think. I doubt it will ruin the charter operations in Sitka or Juneau much less Homer. If charter operators would have gotten on the ball back in 2004 the last time license limitation was on the table for the NPFMC none of this discussion would be happening. So good luck to you Flatfish, I hope you have a good year. Please though stop using a buzzword like bycatch (in the bering sea) or you are as bad as PETA.
    Bycatch comes off the top of the total allowable catch statewide. It has a direct effect on the amount of fish available for all other user groups.

  19. #19

    Default "Breaking New Ground?"

    Quote Originally Posted by AKBassking View Post
    Commercials out to destroy charters in SE? I think so.........

    Look out south central, we are next.

    All the more reason to take away federal management of Alaska's fish and game and return it back to its rightful owners!

    Great response! Very innovative. I've never heard this from sport fishers before.
    This must mean the death of commercial fishing forever. Boy, we'll get to catch all we want then!


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    Killin' it!




  20. #20
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flatfish View Post
    Bycatch comes off the top of the total allowable catch statewide. It has a direct effect on the amount of fish available for all other user groups.
    Each area's harvest target is set individually, thus bycatch in the Bering Sea indeed does not have anything to do with 2C.

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