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Thread: Hunters and killers

  1. #1
    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    Default Hunters and killers

    I'll start the thread since no one else wanted to. Though, I do know it has been discussed at length before.

    Yes, hunters kill. And, killers kill.

    My dad was a killer, my grandpa was a hunter.

    My grandpa, the hunter, killed thousands upon thousands of more animals than did my dad.

    But, between the two of them, the killer was Dad.

    My father placed about as much sentiment into killing as he did for his family. He had no respect or heart for either one.

    Conversely, my grandfather respected both man and nature.

    Of the two, I consider myself to be of the hunter variety. My joy is in the pursuit of game... but, I do feel a wind of remorse when my bullet finds it's mark.

    These are the last two paragraphs from an article on my grandpa from 1978:

    "As for his trusty rifle, well suffice to say this modern-day 'Deerslayer' has more or less hung it up for good."

    "I don't hunt any more," he says, simply. "When you get older, you see, well... it just seems like you begin to enjoy things more alive."

    Shelton-Mason County Journal, Thursday March 23, 1978.
    "...just because we didn't agree with you doesn't mean we didn't have good discussion. It just means you missed it." -JMG-

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    You begin to enjoy things more alive. Well I guess that's a nice way to put it............but if you don't kill, or pay someone else to do your killing, how do you eat?
    Nice to see you back on your pedistal Soggy. Did your grandfather feel remorse when he sliced into a beef steak, or when grandma pulled a pork roast out of the oven?
    Are we supposed to put sentiment into killing? I remember my first winter alone in Alaska, out trapping. Warm spell ruined my meat. I was hungry. I had ALOT of sentiment when I killed a moose that time...........I was elated!
    Anyone can be a hunter. Camera, Binocs, whatever. Hunting is just the process of FINDING the animal. To be a provider, one has to KILL........well unless you can sell the pics you took.
    I like hunting to provide. Not often do I feel remorse when successful.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  3. #3
    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    Well Trapper, it feels pretty good to be on my pedesatal, so, thanks for the welcome back.

    No, my grandpa did not feel remorse when cutting into a steak. Nor do I. Like you, I feel elated at the mere idea of the next bite!

    The "wind of remorse" I speak of takes place at the moment of death. It does not last long... might not even be measurable on a clock... but it is very real.

    Again, hunters, including myself, kill. But, killers do it without forethought, thanks, or consideration.

    MY EDIT: A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.
    "...just because we didn't agree with you doesn't mean we didn't have good discussion. It just means you missed it." -JMG-

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    Soggy-

    I completely understand what you are saying. I hunt and kill to provide for myself and my family, and because I enjoy the pursuit. I often feel the brief but very real remorse you speak of after pulling the trigger. I hunt with people that think I'm nuts for feeling any sort of remorse or appreciation for the animal, so I guess I'm just a wuss. The appreciation is respect, nothing more nothing less.

  5. #5
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
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    Since I began hunting, I have gained so much more appreciation for the outdoors and the freedom we have here in the United States.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

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    Member sbiinc's Avatar
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    Default i like this post

    i will say i'm way over in the 'hunter' definition you provided. i have hunted with a few killers but don't really subscribe to their idology even though i respect it. I would rather hunt with a hunter any day.

    since being in alaska (8yrs) i can safely say i've passed shooting at least 2 dozen (legal) or more animals just because of the circumstances.

    someone said in an earlier post something to the effect of 'do you get sad and pray to the fallen animal' well for all his bs mr. nugent has a good point in that it is almost a spiritual thing for me too...

    might be a bit sappy but thats my two bits.

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    Default soggy

    I too feel something when I down an animal. I wouldn't call it a type of remorse or sadness for the animal, but more like a thankfullness to mother nature, god, those who have helped me hone my skills, and for my own abilities that all combined allowed me the success I have just achieved. I am always in awe at the wonders of nature, not just when out hunting. I grew up on a farm and raised several animals just for slaughter. Knowing that these animals were going to provide for our family, or someone else's, taught me to respect all animals. These mixed feelings I get when I down an animal, whether in the wild or in a pen, last all the way through consuming said animal. The only time I have felt any type of remorse would be when I have had to put down an animal that was too ill or injured to survive.

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    How do you think I feel when I go out and bust one! None of my girls of course. 19 around the house somewhere.

    til later

  9. #9
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    I am both at times...and can even switch back and forth on the same hunt.

    When I butcher chickens or hogs I am a killer. When I shoot coyotes, wolves and sometimes bears I am a killer. When I shoot gophers and other pests down south I am a killer.

    Even at times when I have a pocket full of deer tags and a short time to fill them and the freezer I am an efficient killer. Two years ago the weather sucked and I wanted deer for the freezer. I shot the first one I saw and butchered it as fast as I could...hung it up and started looking for the next one...killed the next one I saw and did the same thing all over again. No remorse, no touchy feely thanks to the deer gods. I just wanted to fill the freezer. I happened to be in a 5 deer/year area and there was no need to practice any selectiveness. The next day I woke up and headed out with the intentions of killing a big buck. I hunted for three days and turned down dozens of deer. I enjoyed myself, my surroundings and took a ton of pictures of otters, stellar jays and the landscapes. I was glad to be there.

    When I go to the Haul Rd. I am a killer. My only intent is to kill caribou for the freezer. Cow, bull...I don't care. Two 'bou and I'm on my way home if all works out. Yes, I've been on trips that were beautiful, but the whole intent was to kill two caribou as efficiently as I could and get back home.

    Now, I went on a nice moose hunt in '06 and had a blast. I paid a lot of money for this trip so that a friend could have a good time on his first moose hunt. I taught him to read tracks of animals, how to cross rivers safely, how and when to call moose, how to set up camp and the miriad of things that many of us do without thinking. We called in a good moose on a beautiful frosty morning and I can still smell the smells as I sit here at the computer. The smells of rotting berries, the smells of wet muskeg, the black spruce, and the bull that was upwind of us. The sounds of horns raking the trees, the sucking sound as the big bull stepped through the moss, his grunts, and the sound of the river...all come to me as if I were there again. I even smell the burned gun powder..hear the report of the rifle and imagine the "whack" of the bullet. I can feel the concusion in the air and the vibration through my feet as that big bull hit the ground 30 yards away. On that hunt I was as emotional as I had ever been on a hunt. I even teared up slightly. That day was everything that was right about being in the woods and successful as a hunter.

    I am not judgemental. I don't find it a requirement to be remorseful to be a good hunter. I don't find a need to be emotional to be a good hunter. I certainly don't push those values on anyone else.

    I am a killer....I am a hunter...different situations bring out different goals and different emotions.

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    My point in the other thread was for some folks that use "slayer" or "killer" in there forum name here is just not right. If your name is ,lets say "Moose Killer",does that mean you kill or want to kill every moose out there.Wouldnt something like "moose hunter" gives us a better image and show we respect the game.
    For some folks its all about the numbers.How many of this or that they shot or caught.For me its always been about the day or time spent in the field.Yes,if im moose hunting and Im successful its great.But for me any day out in our great State is a good day.

  11. #11
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    I am a hunter. I go years without pulling the trigger but I go hunting every year. I always make sure my rifle is sighted in before the season. Getting a big game animal is icing on the cake and I really enjoy processing the meat and making sausage and cutting and wrapping. Its a good feeling to get that done and enjoy the fruits of your labor. I truly respect the privledge to be able to go hunting and take my son hunting and pass this on to him. Hunters contribute alot to our economy. Hunting in Alaska is not cheap! Good luck hunting this year and learn how to process all your own meat. Its a good family activity.

  12. #12

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    It all boils down to early tribal life in our world and our ancestors. In each tribe or village there were some who built things (craftsman of sorts) some who planted things (gatherers) and some who hunted and killed things (hunters) both for food,clothing, and to protect your tribe from others. That gene is strong in some men and not so much in others. Many who hunt feel that drive inside them, its the idea of chasing or stalking something and killing it. You are rewarded by the tribe (or your family and friends in the current world) for the prize, which would be food and clothing and it established your position amongst your tribe/people ultimately being seen with respect. Anyone who hunts and tells you they dont enjoy being successful (which plainly put means "Killing" things) is not a good hunter! We are putting a liberal -anti spin on it by calling it anything other than what it is! The hunt is as rewarding as is the kill but one without the other is not really a success per say. Now as far as enjoying the wilderness as many of us do, thats because we live in the urban world, if we lived like our ancestors and the old timers did, you were always in the woods/mountains/hills so taking in the surroundings was a given. For many of us its the chance to get away from everyday life and experience what the wilderness offers is a change of scenery and we appreciate it.

  13. #13
    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    When I was younger I wanted to be a killer but now I am definately a hunter. Probably bordering on treehugger as I dont do much killing these days.

    I do enjoy my outings but it seems like I could bring home something for the effort.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  14. #14

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    IMO older hunters dont have the same drive that younger hunters do, the drive wears off over time for many, and then theres the physical attributes of age that add new challenges.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Inre hunting for food, I have always felt a profound dual mixture of thankfulness and remorse after killing an animal. Duck, rabbit, moose, makes no difference. There is no question for me why I am hunting; I am doing it to put food on my table. While I understand and respect the reality of Ortega's thoughts that "one doesn't hunt in order to kill; one kills in order to have hunted," for me there has always been a lot of pressure to be successful because of where and how I live. So I hunt in order to kill.

    However, that doesn't mean that I disrespect the animals I hunt. I have my own ethics on how I talk about hunting and those often differ from how other hunters talk. Just as how I feel after killing an animal differs from what other hunters may feel. For me, killing isn't easy; I don't take it lightly. I hope it never gets easy in terms of me not still having that dual mix of emotions when I walk up to an animal I've killed.

  16. #16

    Default One Sportsman's Opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by danthedewman1 View Post
    My point in the other thread was for some folks that use "slayer" or "killer" in there forum name here is just not right. If your name is ,lets say "Moose Killer",does that mean you kill or want to kill every moose out there.Wouldnt something like "moose hunter" gives us a better image and show we respect the game.
    For some folks its all about the numbers.How many of this or that they shot or caught.For me its always been about the day or time spent in the field.Yes,if im moose hunting and Im successful its great.But for me any day out in our great State is a good day.
    Dude - how about saying it's "just not right" for you...that doesn't mean it's "just not right" for other people?

    There are many things more significant in the hunting/anti-hunting debate to worry about, than someone's forum name. For all we know, someone with "killer" in their forum name, does more to protect our hunting privileges, than you or I do. Maybe they write letters to the legislature, introduce new hunters to the sport, or volunteer as a hunter safety instructor?

    Calling someone's forum name inappropriate, is highly subjective. How about if we just stick to topics, and don't get quite that personal.

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    thank you md "hunter"...good name

  18. #18
    Member Bighorse's Avatar
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    Default Hunting to kill

    A phylosphy (sp?) professor who hunted said it gave him great pleasure to kill because it made him feel god like to have power to take life. Just like some of us seek to make life with multiple women.

    So I guess just like a man may make himself a "male whore" a hunter can make himself into a "killer".

    My point.......a sense of purpose and comittment should be prereqisent in all of our lead slinging.

    Happy hunting!

  19. #19
    Member Grizzlykiller's Avatar
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    Default are you bothered by my name?

    I guess my forum name might offend someone. Never gave it much thought.
    Never really cared whether it offends someone either.
    I am a hunter until I aim my .300 Weatherby. Once I pull the trigger I am hoping I am a killer.
    Martentrapper is right on in this subject.
    People spend too much time worrying about what other people perceive. Who cares if you have a name that has the word killer in it.
    Seems all the hunting magazines have a problem with it too. You hear about some author describing his hunt and how he "took" this or that animal and he was going to "take" this or that animal. He killed it or he didn't. If you can't call it what it is then go somewhere besides a hunting forum and deal with it. This whole idea that we might offend someone is BS. I'm offended someone else is offended.......whatever. Kind of a stupid word really when you say it a bunch of times.





    I hope the spinning Zoso doesn't offend someone by making them dizzy.

  20. #20

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    I think it's a little silly to get all riled up about someone labeling themselves as a killer. It's just a title. I understand the annoyance with people calling themselves "killers", but that's just me...I think it's annoying when people put the "fear no fish" stickers on their vehicles, but it's only because I'm not the attention-getting type. In the end though, it doesn't matter. That guy with the decal is just someone with a different personality than me, and that's okay. Hunter, killer... who cares as long as you're an ethical killer and follow the law. It's just semantics really. I think the "hunters" probably have more in common with the "killers" than they realize. So, until someone starts calling themselves a "poacher", I'm going to leave them alone.

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