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Thread: Stupid question: Taking apart a bolt

  1. #1
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    Default Stupid question: Taking apart a bolt

    I know its a stupid question but I'm inquisitive as heck. I got a new bolt body (well, much better condition) for my 1917 eddystone. I would like to take the old pitted one apart and put together the new one. Its gotta go into the smith anyway since its missing a bbl, so if I screw it up, its no big deal. they can fix it.

    Is there a website or someplace where I can get directions. or if somebody (hey Murphy...lol) would take the time to take this grasshopper by the wing and explain it to me, I would appreciate it.

    Thanks
    Joel

  2. #2
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Default Try this...

    http://www.e-gunparts.com/dept.asp

    I looked quickly and didn't see "eddystone" (is that the brand or caliber??) This site has exploded views of LOTS of guns. May not have what you need, but it is worth bookmarking.

    Rob
    AKmud
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  3. #3
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    Default

    Thanks Mud, actually its a US model 1917 old milsurp that has been sporterized. Eddystone is just one of the manufacturers. Remington and winchester also made them. I had a 458Lott made on one and now I think I'm gonna get this one made into a 35whelen. Heavy but good actions, IMO.

    I bookmarked the link (I never ordered from Numrichs before) but didnt really help me on how to tear it apart. Now atleast I know where to get parts for it.

    Thanks
    Joel

  4. #4
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default US Model 1917 bolt disassembly

    Open the bolt, then engage the safety, push the bolt forward. That will engage the forward edge of the striker sear. While pushing on the bolt handle, insert a penny into the gap between the striker sear and the back of the bolt sleeve, the release pressure on the bolt handle.
    Remove the bolt assembly from the receiver, then un-thread the striker assembly and bolt sleeve from the back of the bolt body.
    Place the firing pin tip onto a piece of wood, wooden table top, or some other surface where it's not likely to slip, and push down on the bolt sleeve until the striker sear can be rotated off of the end of the firing pin rod. CAREFULLY release pressure on the bolt sleeve to release spring pressure, and remove the spring.
    If you wish to remove the extractor from the bolt body, rotate the extractor to the right (counterclockwise if looking at the bolt face) until it disengages from the retaining slot at the front of the bolt. Slide the extractor off the end of the bolt body until it clears the extractor retaining ring. Do not remove the split retaining ring from the bolt body unless you need it to put on the new bolt body.
    Reassemble in reverse, but NOTE---That firing pin spring is stout! If you don't keep control of the pieces you stand to at least chase parts over three counties, or put yer eye out!
    If you're uncomfortable with the procedure, leave it to the gunsmith....

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    Default

    Darreld,

    Thank you. Thats what I'm looking for.

  6. #6

    Default Eddystone bolt

    I was wondering if anyone knows a website I can get a new bolt for my eddystone action? THe action is imprinted with : U.S. Model of 1917 EDDYSTONE 765173. It also has a 7mm mag barrel screwed into the action if it is nessecary.
    Anything will help
    Thanks

  7. #7
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default mebbe...

    http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.as...ductSKU=412630

    Looks like they have them in stock. Not a bad price, if the condition is good.
    If you keep the 7 mag barrel on there, you'll have to have the bolt face opened up, and the extractor modified for the bigger rim, I'm assuming you know that already.
    One other way to go is to use the bolt out of a Pattern 14 .303 rifle, and no mods needed, other than making sure the headspace is right, but you'll be needing to check that either way you go.
    Hope this helps.

  8. #8
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default Sorry, forgot this one...

    They list this one as a modified P14 bolt assembly. Might be worth a call to see exactly what it is...
    http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.as...ductSKU=412640

  9. #9
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    Default P-17/P-14 Question

    Darreld,

    You seem to be the P-17 guy and I have a question about same.

    Am I correct in my thinking that the Pattern 14 was the rifle made for the British in 303 caliber? The P-17 and P-14 are the same except for caliber. The bolt head cut, magazine, rails and stripper notch optimized for the rimmed 303 on the P-14 and the P-17 for our '06 round? Wasn't there a P-13 which was to be for the new British round, a 7mm something, which was dropped when WW-I broke out?

    Were Eddystone, Remington and Winchester the only makers?

    Ok, more than one question.

    Thanks,
    Murphy
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  10. #10

    Default

    Darreld,

    I actually don't know what all you are talking about. The barrel in it now is a 7 mag. My grandpa put the barrel and action in a modern stock so I am guessing that everything is right for the head space and all of that. All I need is a new bolt. What model of bolt do I need?

  11. #11

    Default Darreld, EDDYSTONE question

    You mentioned possibly getting a modified P14 bolt. How would I be able to tell whether or not my gun is already using one? Thanks

    Johnke

  12. #12
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    Default Eddystone bolt

    Jonke,

    If you replace the bolt of any bolt action rifle there is a strong possibility that the headspace of the rifle will be wrong, possible to the point of a dangerous level. Now even more so as the rifle was converted in caliber at some point. Meaning that it was modified with a new barrel and re-headspaced with the new barrel and old bolt, which you lost.

    Headspace for a bolt action rifle is a certain distance between the bolt and the barrel, too much is a gap which can rupture a case, too little the bolt won't close. This bolt replacement is not a small thing! Also the 7mm caliber is it a 7mm Rem Mag or one of the dozen other calibers of that bullet diameter? If the bolt was modified to fit the 7mm Rem mag. The P-14 bolt is for a 303 British caliber and the bolt head is .540" not .532" as for the 7mm Rem Mag (if that is what it is) it would be close but not right and the extractor for the 303 would be different and have to be changed out. In any and all cases, you need a P-17 bolt then you must take it to a gunsmith to be fitted and modified to fit the cartridge head and correctly headspaced. You cannot safely just stick a bolt inot this rifle and shoot it!

    I have to ask, how on this planet can you loose the bolt to a rifle?

    I ran into a guy at a gun show once trying to sell a pristine M70 pre 64 in, of all calibers a 7mm Mauser, for only $500, it was worth $3500, except for one little thing, he had LOST the bolt. So he was unable to sell his rifle for even a fraction of it's value. I've owned over a thousand rifles, I 've never lost any part of any of them and I've transported them in over a dozen relocations and in and out of every state and a dozen countries. Am I missing something. Sorry for the rant, just a pet peeve of mine. Good luck with the old rifle.

    Murphy
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  13. #13

    Default

    I didn't lose the bolt. The bolt handle broke off cause my grandpa (the owner before me) customised the bolt handle (knob) and in many years of wear and tear the handle broke of. So No I didn't lose the bolt. I just need a new one. Thanks for your input

  14. #14
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    Default P-17 bolt

    Johnke,

    You could just have the handle rewelded to the bolt and everything will fit and the cost would be a lot less. Just a thought.

    Murphy
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  15. #15
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default Murphy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy
    Darreld,

    You seem to be the P-17 guy and I have a question about same.

    Am I correct in my thinking that the Pattern 14 was the rifle made for the British in 303 caliber? The P-17 and P-14 are the same except for caliber. The bolt head cut, magazine, rails and stripper notch optimized for the rimmed 303 on the P-14 and the P-17 for our '06 round? Wasn't there a P-13 which was to be for the new British round, a 7mm something, which was dropped when WW-I broke out?

    Were Eddystone, Remington and Winchester the only makers?

    Ok, more than one question.

    Thanks,
    Murphy
    You're absolutely correct, the US Model of 1917 (erroneously referred to as an 'Enfield', though it's been called that for so long that it's confusing to call it anything else...) is the direct descendant of the British Pattern 14 rifle designed around the rimmed .303 British military round by the Royal Enfield Armory.
    The only changes that they made to make it work with the 'Cartridge, US, Caliber .30, Model of 1906' was to the bolt face, extractor, interior dimensions of the barrel, and they narrowed the magazine rails to accomodate the rimless cartridge. I can't forget that the sights were recalibrated for the trajectory of the US '06 cartridge.
    Remington, Eddystone and Winchester were indeed the only three manufacturers of this rifle. I am not aware that any British arsenal or manufacturing facility ever produced the Pattern 14, they were all busy making SMLE's.
    A REALLY good site for information on collecting, shooting, and repairing these rifles is found at: http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/1917enfield/1917.pl?
    if you're interested in '03's, it's: http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/03/03config.pl

    http://www.jouster.com/CSP_forums.htm gets you the parent directory for all of the CSP forums, hosted by Dick and Gloria Culver. Dick is a retired USMC Major, competitive target shooter and sniper, Gloria was a deputy sheriff in northern Idaho, where they now live. Both still heavily involved with the Civilian Marksmanship Program, who incidentally, have M1's, M1917's, Model '03, several different .22 target rifles, and ammunition for sale directly from the CMP. (they're at: http://www.odcmp.com/ )
    Hope that answered your questions. I'm not a real authority on '17's, just know enough to be dangerous.....
    Oh, I forgot, the last question you raised concerned a replacement for the .303, and I'm really fuzzy about that one. Seems to me that it was going to be a very high velocity round, possibly very similar to, or perhaps even the same as the .280 Ross that the Canadians DID use in WWI. The British apparently at least had the foresight to foresee the supply problems involved with supporting two rifles (or perhaps more) using two different cartridges. The Japanese got bit in the rear when they switched mid-stream from the 6.5 to the 7.7.
    The Ross RIFLE had some design issues, and the ammunition manufactured was not of the highest quality. A bit of dirt in the Ross rifle, and it would cease to function, and as I recall, the firing pin assembly was hazardous if there was a pierced primer or other gas leak.

  16. #16
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default Bolt question

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnke
    I didn't lose the bolt. The bolt handle broke off cause my grandpa (the owner before me) customised the bolt handle (knob) and in many years of wear and tear the handle broke of. So No I didn't lose the bolt. I just need a new one. Thanks for your input
    If you still have the original bolt that headspaced and functioned, you'd be money and effort ahead to have the handle repaired on what you have.
    The only thing you'll need to know is that the safety engages a notch in the rear face of the handle, and it will still need to do that after reweld, unless you don't need/want that function, and it's imperative that whoever does it uses a heat sink and doesn't overheat the bolt body. You can make the lugs go soft or brittle with an improper weld. Unlike a Mauser 98 with a safety lug, the '17 uses the bolt handle in the notch as a safety backup if the lugs go. I'm sure you see the importance of a good welding job by someone who knows what they're doing. 62,000 psi coming back at you is really, really ugly.

    The reason I mentioned the P14 bolt is that the thing was originally made for the .303 British round, and the bolt face and extractor work without modification on the H&Hmag rim size, which your 7mm Remington uses, also.

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    Default

    I finally got my laptop back from a major crash (blue screen from heck). anyways, alot of good info was posted. I like the 1917's and P-14's. heavy but real good actions. I kinda put mine on hold now, since I recentlyl picked up a VZ-24 action. Actually I'm not sure which one I want to build on first. hmmm, decision, decisions.

  18. #18
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default Chevy vs. Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by Blink
    I finally got my laptop back from a major crash (blue screen from heck). anyways, alot of good info was posted. I like the 1917's and P-14's. heavy but real good actions. I kinda put mine on hold now, since I recentlyl picked up a VZ-24 action. Actually I'm not sure which one I want to build on first. hmmm, decision, decisions.
    In a similar situation, I'd do the same thing. I can gather the parts to make a really nice 98 sporter in any 'standard' chambering, including some fair ''boomers'', within a week.
    To do the same thing to a 17 is mostly custom work. Other than a speed lock and a trigger or two out there, anything else is a custom proposition, starting with losing a half pound of steel on the back of the receiver.

    Sorta like building a hot rod....I can put two Chev small blocks together for the price of a Ford, all the parts are available on hand in this 10,000 population Idaho town. I love my Fords, especially the older ones, but I just don't have the cash to run 'em and bust 'em.

    Don't know if anyone's noticed or not, but there's a couple of outstanding attributes to the 17's...that 26" barrel, and the gargantuan magazine capacity. With slow burning powder, and the right bullet, it's possible to nudge .300 H&H velocities with it. Open the bolt face, and rechamber to .300 Winchester or .300 Weatherby, and you've got enough barrel to make 'em perform like they were meant to. Seven rounds of .30-06 in the box, when it's unmodified, five rounds of H&H mag cases. Without spending major dollars, who's commercial magnum action will give you six shots available when you run one up the spout over a topped off mag?
    The longish tube isn't really handy for tip toeing through the Alder patch, but really, what is?

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