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Thread: 1894 winchester

  1. #1

    Default 1894 winchester

    Does anyone know how many different types of the 1894 rifle in 3030 were made in 1921? I.E. long barrel vs carbine etc. Thanks

  2. #2
    New member George's Avatar
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    Default Win 94

    Well, the info you are after probably doesn't exist. If you are looking for a relative value of the gun that depends upon condition, scarcity and demand.

    The best sources of info about particular older Winchester models would include books like The Winchester Book by Madis. Another resource is the Buffalo Bill Historical Society firearms archives in Cody WY. Looking at Madis' book I see there were about 28,000 Model 1894s made in 1921. The barrel length standards for the SRC would be 20", for the rifle 26" and about 30" for the musket. Barrel lengths as short as 14" in the "trapper" version are seen and lengths up to well over 30" are seen in special order rifles. It was common practice at Winchester in the pre-war years to offer quite a few options for standard models in addition to their offering most anything the customer wanted through their "special order" service.

    Since the collectible market has been so strong.... "faked" special configurations are around.... just something to be aware of. Also, any barrel shorter or longer than standard may be suspect without close exmination in addition to getting a "factory letter" from Cody that may show an unusual feature as being a genuine factory order. Shorter barrels sometimes were not a fake situation just normal practice in the event the end of the barrel was damaged by something like shooting through a bore obstruction in the muzzle- mud, ice, snow, etc. Not "fakery going on just normal repair of a tool. Factory done non-standard features like different barrel lengths, pistol grip deluxe stock, fancy wood, half oct/half round barrel, etc. usually add some value... all other things being equal.

    Link is for Cody firearms records site.... I think a factory letter costs about $50... last time I did it.
    http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/records.cfm

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    New member George's Avatar
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    Default Win 94-2

    Tarsyn, All that was probably too much info but better that than a three word, cryptic, lingo junk answer

    According to Madis' estimates for Win 94s made between 1894 and 1932: 1 of 3 was a rifle and 7 of 10 were 30 WCF (30-30).

  4. #4

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    Thanks for the information. That is just what I was looking for. My father has an old 1894 made in 1921(I was able to find that out so far from the s/n) that was given to him as a boy from an old timer here in Alaska. It is a 30 WCF but the barrel appears to be longer than the standard model. I will do some more research and let you know what I find out. Thanks

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    New member George's Avatar
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    Default Win 94- a little more

    Tarsyn,
    It's good that you're taking interest in the old gun. Tying some history to old pieces is worth the effort!

    A couple more things that may help...

    Within the standard barrel lengths... in this case the standard 94 "rifle" barrel would be 26". That can vary by about 1/8" depending upon fit and finish at factory. The easiest way to measure the exact barrel length is to take a cleaning rod and push it into the muzzle until it contacts the bolt face on a closed action. Mark the rod at the muzzle and measure.

    Another thing to look at is the barrel address stamped on the barrel. During the serial number range of your rifle the stamp should read in two lines: (top) -Manufactured by the- (bottom) -Winchester Repeating Arms Co.New Haven Conn. U.S.A.-
    If it includes the 1894 patent date of Aug 21 1894 at the end of the stamp then the barrel is slightly later production. That would mean probably the receiver was made in 1921 and a barrel was pulled out of the "new production" bin and the gun put together or the gun was put together after 1921 where the earlier receiver was pulled out of a bin and put on a current barrel... no problem, this is seen fairly often. A "factory letter" from BBHC would answer that question.

    If however the barrel has been replaced by the factory for whatever reason or by a gunsmith that used either another aftermarket barrel OR a Win factory replacement barrel sometimes a series of code stamps can be found on the barrel under the forearm near the receiver. Another "fly in the soup" for authentication is that during the era it is known that some shooters would cut about 1/2" off the muzzle (just in front of the front sight) "to increase accuracy". That would mean quite a few 26" barrels would now be 25 1/2", the 28" barrels would be about 27 1/2" and so on. Usually that's easy to spot because the factory distance from muzzle to front sight was about 1 1/10".

    You can also do some very rough interpolation of numbers and guesstimate the number of rifles vs carbines produced in 1921 in 30WCF. Just under 28000 total production. 70% were 30WCF for all runs 1894-1937 means about 19500 would likely have been 30WCF. Of that number about 33% would likely have been "rifle" so about 6500 model 94 "rifles" in 30WCF would have been made in 1921.

    Good luck on finding the answers and compiling the records... good info to have. A history is good especially for any family piece. Spending the $50 or so for a "factory letter" is usually worth it. But sometimes even the factory records aren't complete.

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarsyn View Post
    Does anyone know how many different types of the 1894 rifle in 3030 were made in 1921? I.E. long barrel vs carbine etc. Thanks
    If you need more help, here is a link. You can go here and join, ask your questions to a group that focuses on these rifles.

    http://www.winchestercollector.org/f...wforum.php?f=3
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