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Thread: When I find the camera....

  1. #1
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    Default When I find the camera....

    I have some photogenic cartridge cases. I love wildcats, but I don't like other peoples' screw-ups but I have both in a project I've taken on.

    The belted 300 Weatherby case necked down to accept .264" bullets or the 6.5-300 WBY or originally the 6.5 Wright-Hoyer, which wasn't a WBY double ogee shoulder, but this beauty is. I received this gun with some "fireformed" brass and some new brass. Some loaded ammo and some formed brass, (and a couple of oops! cases that showed that the previous loader was in trouble.) along with an RCBS two die set of reloading dies and a two die set of case forming dies. This is about $450 of dies.

    Well the "fireformed" cases were fireformed in a W-H chamber and were originally 300 H&H brass and they didn't fit the chamber of the Weatherby. The formed cases had the shoulder pushed too far back in the #2 case forming die, and they didn't fit the chamber. The sizer die was well matched to the chamber but the form dies are more generic and "over formed" the shoulder. Firing one of these, with a moderate charge and a 100 grain bullet, resulted in a seperated case. The belted end came out easily but the front end of this big case stayed in the chamber of the rebarrelled Ruger #1. I use an easy-out bolt extractor to get these out and it doesn't usually take much effort just the right diameter tool.

    Back to plan B. I pulled the bullets from the loaded rounds and dumped the powder and the holofil sleeping bag insulation from the cases. I then loaded the cases with about 70 grains of RL-25. That's the powder that was in the hopper and it was of the correct type to fire form with. I like to use the course extruded powder. It is quite hard and about the texture of creek gravel. I then load this over magnum primer without a bullet. Point the rifle upward, chamber a round and fire. This went on for forty cases on Sunday.

    The heavy charge of powder is launced down the case and slams into the shoulder of the case and pushes it out agains the chamber. As the charge is ignited, it bushes back against the case head (recoil) and pulls the whole case back agains the recoil face of the rifle. If there was a bullet in the case it would have buit pressure up and pressed the case against the side wall then pushed back enough against the case head to stretch the case just ahead of the belt causing a thin ring of brass at this point. This will surely result in a seperated case at the next firing. (It had just done that with the the only shot of the day Saturday) This technique is a modification of Ken Howells inert material (corn meal) fireforming. It cannot really be called inert even though most of the powder is not ignited, it is merely launched down the tube. This hard extruded powder works better than corn meal in cases that have not been annealed (softened). This is a simple and expedient way to form cases and requires only the expense of powder and primer and a good clean up after. Anyway I now have some pretty nice formfitted cases for this wilder than normal cat and will rely on Beartooths expertese and experience with this caliber (re: his 257-300 Weatherby) for more appropriate load data with bullets this time.

    These rounds are quite loud and there is a significant recoil form the load. This is for those who don't think the powder charge should be in my recoil equation. The load of powder generates Newton 3rd law recoil and the exiting gases generate Bill Lear recoil. I love this job.
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  2. #2
    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing.

    Power weight definately affects recoil.

    If I get two or more loads that give the velocity I want I pick the one that uses the least powder. I get more shots per pound of powder and less recoil.


    Most cartridges will not have a discernable difference but some will.

    I loaded a max of Retumbo behind a 200 partition in the 300 win mag along with a max of H4831. Both loads were near 2950 fps (2971 Ret---2937 H4831) . The retumbo was noticably harder recoiling with 7 grains more powder for a similiar velocity.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

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    Here are a couple of pics of troubled cases due to improper sizing or poor fitting brass to chamber.

    The pic on the left is of two cases necked to 6.5 and fired with a bullet. The one on the left was a 300 Weatherby case necked down and fired with a moderate load and bullet seated. It headspaced on the belt but had exces shoulder headspace and the case stretched to fit the chamber. This stretching was too much and the case seperated just forward of the webb and had to be extracted with the not-so-easy-out. The case on the right was a 300 H&H case that was loaded with a 6.5 bullet and fired. It ruptured at the shoulder. This was just too much space for the tapered H&H case to fit into. No body got hurt.

    The pic on the right is of a 6.5 Grendel (6mm PPC necked up and altered slightly). The middle case is of a 6.5-06 AI. It was a 25-06 case necked up to .264" loaded with a 100 grain bullet and fired. It had tight bolt closure headspace at the shoulder and it fire formed quite nicely. The case on the right, a 300 Wby was necked to .264" then filled with extruded rifle powder and fired with out a bullet. It filled out nicely but will need to be fired with a full power load and a bullet to fit perfectly.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0605.JPG   DSCN0606.JPG  
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    So what do you have your 6.5 Grendel wildcat chambered in?

    Would you like me to e-mail you my 6.5 Grendel improved reamer drawing?

    Bill Alexander gave me a license for the 6.5mm Grendel. If you want to go back to that chambering, I can provide you the tooling.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    So what do you have your 6.5 Grendel wildcat chambered in?

    Would you like me to e-mail you my 6.5 Grendel improved reamer drawing?

    Bill Alexander gave me a license for the 6.5mm Grendel. If you want to go back to that chambering, I can provide you the tooling.

    The Grendel is in an A/A hunter model. It isn't a wildcat any more, is it? I'm trying to get a BF pistol made in the caliber now. What do you think of it with 120 grains in 14" for a deer size hunting handgun?

    Yes I'd like to see the improved model if you could shoot me one of the drawings. Thanks.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  6. #6
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    The Grendel does not have a SAAMI designation yet. So no, unless if you are of the same opinion as I am. SAAMI takes it out of the wildcat and makes it main stream.

    My drawings for the Grendel are an improved version with a 35 degree shoulder and tighten up on the neck and throat dimensions. When I posted the pictures of the drawing, I talked to Bill Alexander over the phone and he agreed that my changes would make it better than the Grendel. The reason he didn't follow that direction was because he had no way of controlling the public hand loading. No-re the range of different bullets.

    At this point in time, I feel the Remington Core-loc in the 120 grain bullet (6.5) is the best choice for hunting with this size case. To get the best out of a wider range of bullets I had them stay with the 1.5 degree lead angle.

    Bill suggested the proper twist would be 8.75". I was confused as to why he had some of his barrel twists at one in 7.5". The reason was because of the vary short barrels such as the 10".

    The good thing about the 6.5 now, is the fact that we are now on the verge of a better selection of bullets, Berger has their new 120 grain and others, coming on line.

    I really feel that the 6.5 Grendel or the wildcats from it, will become the perfect caribou ctg for 99% of caribou hunting.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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