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Thread: 308

  1. #1
    Member frankd4's Avatar
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    Default 308

    How big is 308 in Alaska I have not seen alot about it on this forum?
    Is 308 useful on big game?

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    Default 308

    I use it and love it. It has it's limitations like all things. Some say it is under gun in bear country if while hunting moose or caribou. I used it to take a black bear and wouldn'd hesitate going out in grizzly country while hunting moose or caribou. I beleive it an accurate round and use premium 180 grain rounds. Most situations hunting on the large ungulates occur anywhere from 30-200ish yards which is in the area of the 308's effective range. If I were purposely hunting bear if it was the only rife I had well Ok then I'd use it. If I had a larger bore rifle which I was comfortable and shot accurately then Ok I'd use it and bring the 308 as a back up shooter in the event the large bore rifle broke. What is your hunting and rifle situation?

  3. #3
    Member Skookumchuck's Avatar
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    Default

    I shot my first black bear with my .308 and a 180 gr. fusion bullet. He didn't make it 30 yds. Never shot a moose, but its great for blacktails.

  4. #4
    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 308 win

    One of my favorite rounds........308 Win

    Used within its limitations will do for most Alaska game.

    My SSG 69 has collected alot of game over the years form coast to coast.

    180gr Nosler Accubond
    Varget or Reloader 15 powder

    before Alaska it was IMR 4895 and 165gr Sierra HPBT.

  5. #5

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    A little light for the big bears, but perfectly adequate for everything else. The federal premium high energy with the 180 nosler partion clocks just shy of 2700 in my guns, darn close to the 30-06!!

  6. #6
    Member Timber Smith's Avatar
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    Default 308 Winchester is an all-time great cartridge

    I have to echo the comments on the 308. Extremely versatile, probably my favorite. This cartridge can be found chambered in almost any platform you can name. I don't believe it gets enough love and respect on this forum, probably too boring (boringly accurate). I think that a lot of shooters would be better served with a good 308 than one of the magnums that seem to be so popular. I will always advise a rookie hunter, target shooter, competitive shooter, handloader,etc. to start with a 308. This cartridge with premium bullets is perfectly adequate for all big game in North America (at the ranges that most big game is actually taken) with the exception of coastal browns. With proper shot placement, a 308 will do about anything a 30-06 will do with bullets up to 180gr. Quality factory ammunition (to include premium hunting and matchgrade) and handloading components are readily available. Given that marksmanship can be only improved through perfect practice, the 308 is a cartridge that is conducive to more and better training as it is easier on the wallet and shoulder. I could go on and on but you get the drift, I just like the 308.


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    Thumbs up For about 39 years.....

    ...it has been one of my favorites. I've done a lot of hunting with the caliber and done a lot of target shooting with it as well. The 308 is a winner at the firing line or in the fields. It is a little light for big bears but with 180 grains it makes a moose gun, it is on the heels of the mighty ought six. It is still one of the most accurate calibers ever created and ammo for it is everywhere. It is the preferred caliber for my AR and can be had in a very light and handy hunting rifle. I will never be without at least one.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Member jmg's Avatar
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    I don't want to take this thread off topic too far, so I apologize if I am, but I am considering getting a 30-06. If the 308 is just "on the heels" of the 06, why wouldn't you go with an 06? What are the ballistic comparisons like?

    I am trying to decide between the 06 and 300 WM, although have given the 308 second thoughts too. I guess for me, less kick in the shoulder and less kick in the wallet for ammo is why I will probably choose the 06 over the 300.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmg View Post
    I don't want to take this thread off topic too far, so I apologize if I am, but I am considering getting a 30-06. If the 308 is just "on the heels" of the 06, why wouldn't you go with an 06? What are the ballistic comparisons like?

    I am trying to decide between the 06 and 300 WM, although have given the 308 second thoughts too. I guess for me, less kick in the shoulder and less kick in the wallet for ammo is why I will probably choose the 06 over the 300.
    If I were ever faced with the dilemma of choosing a 30 caliber rifle and considering every aspect, recoil, ballistics, and logistics for a hunting rifle. I would choose a 30-06 over a 300 mag or a 308. The '06 is more versatile than the 308 because it can handle 180-220 grain bullets with gusto and the 308 strains a gut trying to keep up (it can't). The 300 has more velocity but not a better getter of game, only allowing greater distance for the same family of game (size) and recoil is greater. I would also like my '06 to have a 24" barrel and deliver 180 grains at 2800 fps, the 308 will top out at about 2600 fps, the 300 mag at about 3000 or so.

    The 308 will likely have an edge in accuracy but either of the other two will have more than adequate hunting accuracy. If I had need of a short rifle for more agility in dense areas I might select the 308 unless there were animals greater than about 600 pounds or DG on the menu. If my quarry would only be deer/antelope/sheep/caribou size I would never feel handicapped with the 308.

    If you can handle the recoil of the 308 you can handle the 30-06. The '06 is generally in slightly heavier rifles and the recoil is about the same, the mag of course is more yet. I don't consider either of the three to be menacing.

    The selection for you may be more towards you particular hunting style. If you like to take long shots and can connect over in the next county, the 300 mag may be a better choice. If you are more of a stalking hunter and can get inside that sure shot window, and like a little lighter rifle, the 308 may be the best choice.

    This probably didn't help much, did it?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  10. #10
    Member jmg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    If I were ever faced with the dilemma of choosing a 30 caliber rifle and considering every aspect, recoil, ballistics, and logistics for a hunting rifle. I would choose a 30-06 over a 300 mag or a 308. The '06 is more versatile than the 308 because it can handle 180-220 grain bullets with gusto and the 308 strains a gut trying to keep up (it can't). The 300 has more velocity but not a better getter of game, only allowing greater distance for the same family of game (size) and recoil is greater. I would also like my '06 to have a 24" barrel and deliver 180 grains at 2800 fps, the 308 will top out at about 2600 fps, the 300 mag at about 3000 or so.

    The 308 will likely have an edge in accuracy but either of the other two will have more than adequate hunting accuracy. If I had need of a short rifle for more agility in dense areas I might select the 308 unless there were animals greater than about 600 pounds or DG on the menu. If my quarry would only be deer/antelope/sheep/caribou size I would never feel handicapped with the 308.

    If you can handle the recoil of the 308 you can handle the 30-06. The '06 is generally in slightly heavier rifles and the recoil is about the same, the mag of course is more yet. I don't consider either of the three to be menacing.

    The selection for you may be more towards you particular hunting style. If you like to take long shots and can connect over in the next county, the 300 mag may be a better choice. If you are more of a stalking hunter and can get inside that sure shot window, and like a little lighter rifle, the 308 may be the best choice.

    This probably didn't help much, did it?
    No, that was very helpful. It also helped to solidify in my mind the 30-06 is a great choice. I have been looking at the Tikka T3 lite SS version. What I really like about the '06 is the availability of, and choices of, ammo. Barrel length on the T3 is just under 22 1/2, which is a little shorter than what you said you'd like.

  11. #11

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    Hmmm, .06 or 7mm Mag?

    Oh yeah, and the 308 is a great gun.

  12. #12
    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Default

    The 308 is probably my favorite. I shot one moose and one black bear with one. I fired many rounds as it is so easy to shoot. I dont own one now. I was looking for one when I came across a good deal for a 30-06. I do have 300 cases for when I buy my next 308 though.

    If you want to shoot 220's then the 30-06 is the way to go. I shot a moose with the 308 and 165 x bullets it worked just fine.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  13. #13

    Default .308

    I shoot .308 and have found it to be a very good cartridge. My rifle is a Savage 10FPC HS Precision, which is a heavy barreled "sniper" type rifle that I use for hunting. It is fitted with a Leupold Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm LR/T. At my last sighting in session, my last 3 shot group at 200 yards was about 3/4 inch. At our range, we have some old hanging oxy tanks at about 350 yards. They are about 8" in diameter. I hit one ten times in a row before I left.

    I don't see myself as a great shot, I believe it's the gun and .308.

    Quoting an article on 6mmbr: http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

    "The .308 Win delivers superb accuracy along with outstanding barrel life--it's not unusual for a .308 barrel to return 5,000+ rounds of accurate service. Along with excellent factory-loaded ammo, a huge selection of bullets and powders is available for the .308 Winchester reloader. Loading for the .308 Win is relatively easy. The round is not finicky and great powder and projectile combinations are well-known.

    And if you want "out of the box" precision in a factory rifle, the .308 Win is hard to beat. While it may not be the "ulimate" 1000-yard cartridge or short-range paper-puncher, the .308 remains one of the best cartridges in the modern arsenal, with versatility that few other calibers can match. As a "do-it-all" cartridge that can take game, win shooting matches, and defend against foes, the .308 Winchester has few rivals."

    The 06 is a great cartridge. It has a little more energy than the .308. Remember the U.S. military spent years and millions looking for a new cartridge, and they dumped the 06 and turned to the .308. Hunting is not war, but the .308 is a great round.

    Shot placement is everything, and an accurate rifle with medium power might be much better than a powerhouse that shoots loose groups. Speaking for myself, I develop a flinch with a big gun. The .338 Lapula for example, after 3 or 4 rounds, makes me jerk the trigger like a sissy.

    The drawback for Alaska, it seems to me, would be that the .308 is a light round, and like the 30-06 it was designed to kill 170 pound men. If I were being charged by a moose or big bear, I would be thinking... "why didn't I buy a .375 or .378?" I would never go on a hunt for Brown Bear or Griz with my .308. Good luck and God bless.

  14. #14
    Member frankd4's Avatar
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    Default Thank you

    Thank you gentlemen I am one or two years away from moving up to Alaska I shoot with a Spring Field M1A1 match rifle, I was thinking I might need something a tad bit larger.
    For the past five years my wife and I have been working towards that goal its going to be one hell of a change coming from south Florida to Alaska, but we fell in love with the state and visit our daughter as often as we can. Thanks for the information.
    Good Hunting
    Frank

  15. #15

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    Frank,

    I'm moving from Montana to Alaska in the summer. I moved from Ft. Myers to Montana just last year. Congrats!

    We guys love to talk guns and ballistics. Its almost like a drug. I believe there is something just as important, and that is getting on target. Here is a story about a Marine who made two shots with two kills in just seconds, at 1050 yards with a .308.

    See: http://www.mfr.usmc.mil/Archive/2005.01/sniperkill.html

    I believe that this shooter could take any game in Alaska, all day long at 300 yards or less. At 600 yards, he could take all but the biggest game. I would rather make a heart or brain shot with a highly accurate rifle than blow a hole in a non-vital area. Knowing an animal's anatomy and shooting accurately is far more important than endless talk about ballistics.

    The difference between a 30-06 and a .308 ballistically is little, maybe a couple of hundred feet per second. However, making a hit dead center in a vital area is very important. Your match .308 can achieve 2" groups at 200 yards with IRON SIGHTS!!

    Being a good shot and understanding the animal's vitals will get you everything you need with the rifle you own.

  16. #16

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    You have to add the .280 and 300 WSM to your list... : )

  17. #17

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    Here is a 1360 yard one shot kill with the .308.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../01/wirq01.xml

    The U.S. Military spent decades and a lot of money looking for an all-around cartridge.

    No one on this planet has more knowledge about guns than The United States Army + The United States Marines. They have hundreds of top engineers and scientists at their disposal. I submit they know more about guns than all of the people that have ever read this forum plus all of the people on all of the rest of all of the forums combined, plus all of the salesmen in all of the gun shops that have ever existed.

    The United States Army says the .308 is better that the 30-06. That is why they dumped the old and outdated 30-06 and replaced it with the modern .308.

    Frank, keep the .308, save the money you would have spent on a new gun, and put that money towards a snowmachine, ammo, ATV, food, or something else.

  18. #18
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    "No one on this planet has more knowledge about guns than The United States Army + The United States Marines. They have hundreds of top engineers and scientists at their disposal. I submit they know more about guns than all of the people that have ever read this forum plus all of the people on all of the rest of all of the forums combined, plus all of the salesmen in all of the gun shops that have ever existed.

    The United States Army says the .308 is better that the 30-06. That is why they dumped the old and outdated 30-06 and replaced it with the modern .308."

    Like you mentioned in your earlier post. Hunting is not war. The .308 better suited the military needs at that time. Smaller, lighter, less recoil, etc. If we followed the military's history of cartridge adoption we would all be hunting big game with .223's.

    That said, the .308 is a great hunting round, and the 30-06 is not outdated.

  19. #19

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    TomM,

    You're right, of course! My context, re: "outdated" was in relation to the military's view. The Military considers the 06 to be old and outdated.

    There are other cases where the 06 is considered outdated, PALMA matches for example, where .308 was once shot side-by side with the 30-06, and, to quote a PALMA shooter:

    "All that aside, lets go back to when the .30-06 and .308 were the only cartridges allowed in NRA match rifle matches. Both cartridges were used in barrels of equal quality as well as the same action and stocks by several top shooters in the USA. Both cartridges were used in matches at ranges from 100 through 1000 yards. Many thousands of rounds were fired in both types. Bullets from 168 through 200 grains were used with several powder, case and primer combinations.

    In comparing accuracy between the .308 and .30-06, folks who used each quickly agreed on one thing: .308s were two to three times more accurate than the .30-06. In the early 1960s, it was also observed that competitors with lower classifications using .308s were getting higher scores than higher classified folks using .30-06s; at all ranges. By the middle to late 1960s, all the top highpower shooters and virtually all the rest had switched to the .308. The Highpower Committee had received so many complaints of ties not being able to be broke between shooters using the .308 and shooting all their shots in the tie-breaking V-ring, something had to be done to resolve this issue. In 1966, the NRA cut in half the target scoring ring dimensions.

    At the peak of the .30-06's use as a competition cartridge, the most accurate rifles using it would shoot groups at 200 yards of about 2 inches, at 300 of about 3 inches. The 600-yard groups were 6 to 7 inches and at 1000 yards about 16 inches. As the high-scoring ring in targets was 3 inches at 200 and 300 yards, 12 inches at 600 and 20 inches at 1000, the top scores fired would have 90+ percent of the shots inside this V-ring.

    Along came the 7.62mm NATO and its commercial version; the .308 Winchester. In the best rifles, 200 yard groups were about 3/4ths inch, at 300 about 1-1/2 inch. At 600 yards, groups were about 2-1/2 inch and at 1000 about 7 to 8 inches. It was not very long before the .30-06 round no longer won matches nor set any records; all it's records were broken by the .308 by a considerable margin. Some accuracy tests at 600 yards with the .308 produced test groups in the 1 to 2 inch range. These were 20 to 40 shot groups. No .30-06 has ever come close to shooting that well." See: http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp

    I'm sure the military has a cartridge in the works that will replace and outdate the .308. The whole point of my post was to defend the .308 from Frank's perspective. He wanted to know if the .308 was good enough for Alaska.

    In the civilian shooting culture, the .308 is sort of an underdog. There's not much to say about it. the .308 doesn't conjure-up visions of the turn of the last century Hero Hunter taking a record breaking and charging moose. It doesn't seemed to be tinkered with much. Wildcatters seem to ignor it.

    The 30-06 is a great cartridge. If I had a good shooting rifle in 30-06 and wanted it for hunting only, I wouldn't sell it at a loss to buy a .308.

    Conversely, if I were Frank, I wouldn't switch to the .30-06 or any other cartridge for my move to Alaska.

  20. #20
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    Smile

    I also agree and enjoyed your post. The .308's Ive seen and played with have been very accurate. If you cant get it done with .308 velocities and a good 165/180 grain bullet, you have more problems than a new rifle will solve. The -06 has a little more versatility, and is plenty accurate for hunting. Cant go wrong with either one.

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