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Thread: home made foul out machine

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Default home made foul out machine

    This looks pretty cool.

    Any one use these type of cleaners?

    Are they worth the work?

    http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp
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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    That is an interesting little read! My only concern would be the ammonia and any negative effects it may have on the barrel after extended exposure. I generally shy away from the ammonia based cleaners after inadvertently damaging the last two inches of one of my barrels with excessive exposure to Barnes CR10. Mind you that the fault was not with the product, but with my technique of saturating several patches and leaving them sit in the end of the barrel to remove some unusually thick copper buildup due to a slightly rough and pitted barrel. If I recall correctly, I had left the patches in for about 2 hours (Barnes cautions users not to leave the product in the barrel for more than 10 minutes I think) and it did remove the copper buildup but also “frosted” the barrel.

    What I do now is remove the barreled action from the stock and stand it vertically in a 5 gallon bucket. I then plug the chamber with a liquid tight chamber plug and fill the barrel with Hoppies #9 and leave it sit for a couple of days. Evaporation requires that you “top it off” every now and then, but it seems to do a good job with apparently little chance of barrel damage due to harsh chemicals. This method is not totally without effort however, as some scrubbing with a bronze bore brush may still be necessary to remove all of the fouling.
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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link Mr Miller!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    That is an interesting little read! My only concern would be the ammonia and any negative effects it may have on the barrel after extended exposure. I generally shy away from the ammonia based cleaners after inadvertently damaging the last two inches of one of my barrels with excessive exposure to Barnes CR10. Mind you that the fault was not with the product, but with my technique of saturating several patches and leaving them sit in the end of the barrel to remove some unusually thick copper buildup due to a slightly rough and pitted barrel. If I recall correctly, I had left the patches in for about 2 hours (Barnes cautions users not to leave the product in the barrel for more than 10 minutes I think) and it did remove the copper buildup but also “frosted” the barrel.

    What I do now is remove the barreled action from the stock and stand it vertically in a 5 gallon bucket. I then plug the chamber with a liquid tight chamber plug and fill the barrel with Hoppies #9 and leave it sit for a couple of days. Evaporation requires that you “top it off” every now and then, but it seems to do a good job with apparently little chance of barrel damage due to harsh chemicals. This method is not totally without effort however, as some scrubbing with a bronze bore brush may still be necessary to remove all of the fouling.
    Speak of the devil...

    I just called S&W because their manuals say NOT to use ammoniated cleaners in their guns, so I wanted to find out why. Their official policy statement is "Do not use it, period."

    BUT the guy on the phone did expound on what the issues are. It's not an issue with stainless steel or regular gun metals if used in strict accordance with the instructions on the bottle (Sweets 7.62 or CR-10 etc) but cumulative damage will occur in the long run so you don't want to use this stuff if your gun doesn't really need it, e.g. a limit of 10 or 15 minutes in a single session is no different than 10 or 15 cleanings where you limited the exposure to 1 minute each time. If you break in your gun properly, i.e. shoot a couple of copper jacketed rounds then clean with Sweets 7.62 or CR-10 (etc) then repeat a couple of times (or if you have a hand-lapped or polished barrel ...the rifling that is) then normal good maintenance should prevent copper build-up that requires special cleaners. Save the ammoniated cleaners for special occasions when a visual inspection says you need it, then keep the gun clean all the time.

    The other issue has been (and is) with people who failed to follow instructions. He said they receive several guns a week that have been soaked in ammoniated cleaners for too long ...ranging from hours to days. There are reasons the bottle says to clean the stuff out with a normal solvent after a minute or two of exposure and to limit the total exposure. If it weren't for people not following the instructions on the bottle (he said), they wouldn't put the warning in the manuals.

    The last issue is with the non-gun metal components. Painted items such as sights, grips, painted/varnished/oiled components, spring-metal springs and internal components that can't be seen, etcetera can all be damaged more highly and more quickly than gun metal or stainless parts. Many people are 'messy' with their cleaning and get the ammoniated cleaners into places and onto things that it can damage.

    The bottom line: For stainless and gun metal, you can use ammoniated cleaners such as Sweets 7.62 and CR-10, but take care to hold the gun (or barrel) sideways and with the muzzle pointed downwards so that if any of the solution drips out, it won't get onto something you wish it didn't. Keep the solution away from entry points into other internal parts of the gun, i.e. only clean the inside of the barrel and keep the cleaner ONLY in the inside of the barrel. Follow the time limits strictly and flush the barrel with regular cleaning solvents when finished. Flush/clean the whole gun with regular solvents if there is a chance the ammoniated cleaner got somewhere it shouldn't. Lubricate all components of the gun after cleaning and removing excess (regular) solvent. BTW, they can tell by inspection if you abused these cleaners, so don't try to trick them by not telling them what happened!

    Personally, I follow the 'bottom line' instructions anyway ...I figured the warnings on the label had some meaning to them. And I always lube with Corrosion X anti-corrosion gun oil rather than just regular gun oil.

    BTW, the guy had no clue on the Foul Out type (or other) electrolytic cleaning systems ...but if they use ammonia in the solution, then the above rules apply. Only use them if you have to. Otherwise, there was no policy against electrolytic cleaning systems.

    He also said lead cleaning solutions are fine as long as they don't have ammonia in them, i.e. combination lead and copper fouling cleaners may have ammonia in them but plain lead fouling (only) cleaners don't.

    Brian

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