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Thread: Nikon or Canon D-SLR???

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    Member Roger45's Avatar
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    Question Nikon or Canon D-SLR???

    I want to get into the digital SLR world. I have been looking at the Nikon D40x and the Canon Rebel XTi...both the two lens kits and both the same cost. It seems that the only *real* difference is the Canon second lens goes to 300mm while the Nikon goes to 200mm. They both seem to be excellent cameras. Any opinions out there??? Serious responses are appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger45 View Post
    I want to get into the digital SLR world. I have been looking at the Nikon D40x and the Canon Rebel XTi...both the two lens kits and both the same cost. It seems that the only *real* difference is the Canon second lens goes to 300mm while the Nikon goes to 200mm. They both seem to be excellent cameras. Any opinions out there??? Serious responses are appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Maybe you answered you own question, they are both excellent cameras but the Canon second lense of 300mm would tip the scale for me.

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    Default Nikon fan

    Both are excellent cameras. I shoot the Nikon and love it. A close friend has the Canon and he loves that one. Either way, you're getting a quality piece of equipment with a proven track record.
    I ended up going with the Nikon because I had personal experience with other Nikon cameras and felt more comfortable with their controls.

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    FYI: The D40x has just been replaced by the D60 -- not a big upgrade according to http://dpreview.com. The Canon has just been replaced by the Rebel XSi -- more substantial upgrade feature wise, but the price has gone up a bit too.

    I agree with the others. Either of these would be good cameras.

    However, I would recommend getting the Nikon with the 18-55 VR (Vibration Reduction) lens, or the Canon with the 18-55 IS (Image Stabilization) lens. This will cost you another $60-100 over the standard lenses, but is well worth it in un-blurry pictures.

    You can also get Nikon's or Canon's 70-300 in VR/IS as well, but it will cost you considerably more for these substantially better lenses.

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    Jim's right. It will come down to a personal choice - and then you too can join the fray in the Canon versus Nikon wars!

    The 18-55 kits lens is very good for the money - you'd have to spend just under $2,000 to get a significant quality improvement. As for the longer zooms - look at what you want (or think you want!) to do with it. My camera came with the 55-200mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED lens (Nikon, BTW), and it was the first thing I sold. I purchased the VR version of the lens from Beach Camera for less than $200 over Christmas. Good lens, but still too slow. Right now I'm lusting after the Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED (Canon has a super 80-200 f/2.8L lens in the same class), but I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on purchasing one. I don't really NEED it, I just WANT it , so I'll end up getting one when the right buy comes along.

    I guess the moral of the story is to upgrade the zoom when you buy the camera - you'll save yourself some money and hassle when your wants and needs say you want a more expensive lens. In the Nikon world, I think they call it NAS - Nikon Acquisition Syndrome, the irrational desire to acquire Nikon equipment, most notably lenses . . .

    Cheers,

    SH

    P.S. I'm a firm believer in buying used glass - let someone else depreciate it. Just make sure you watch what you're buying.

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    Member Roger45's Avatar
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    Great advice folks! This is what I am looking for, not a flame war on brand specific. Thanks. I will start looking for a *body* only and then the upgraded lens. I have owned both Canon and Nikon, so does that mean I have a split personality

    Again, thanks for all the great advice!
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    Default Nikon's 80-200mm f/2.8 AFD ED zoom

    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra Hotel View Post
    The 18-55 kits lens is very good for the money - you'd have to spend just under $2,000 to get a significant quality improvement.
    I'm not sure I'd agree with that, for a Nikon at least (I'm not familiar with Canon lenses, so nothing I say applies to them). The Nikon 18-70mm DX G lense is a jewel (unless you have a D3 body). It is the best wide angle consumer grade DX zoom that Nikon makes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra Hotel View Post
    Right now I'm lusting after the Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED (Canon has a super 80-200 f/2.8L lens in the same class), but I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on purchasing one. I don't really NEED it, I just WANT it , so I'll end up getting one when the right buy comes along.
    You do need it! :-)

    The newer 70-200mm f/2.8, is equally good and with VR is better if that is useful to you. I use a tripod all the time anyway, so I don't see VR as significant. I have an 80-200mm f/2.8 AFD ED, and can't imagine life without it! That is a fabulous lens! Wide open, and at either end of the zoom range, it is sharp and the bokeh is nice.

    Hence, if you're into tripods as opposed to handheld shots, a used 80-200mm f/2.8 is a really great buy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra Hotel View Post
    I guess the moral of the story is to upgrade the zoom when you buy the camera - you'll save yourself some money and hassle when your wants and needs say you want a more expensive lens.
    That is so true. The problem for most people, particularly if they are buying an entry level camera, is not knowing for sure what makes a difference to them. The 18-70mm is offered as a kit lens with the higher level bodies, and doesn't seem to come up on the radar if folks are looking at lower end cameras.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra Hotel View Post
    P.S. I'm a firm believer in buying used glass - let someone else depreciate it. Just make sure you watch what you're buying.
    True, at least for those who are able to watch it and make judgements. Some people can't though. But eBay is a great place for Alaskans that don't travel to Anchorage and other large cities.

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    Since I do wildlife photography for a living I may as well chime in. I am partial to Canon's because that is what I started with. And whatever you start with it what you will build on as you add more camera's and gear. I would not fell handicapped in the least if I had to buy just Nikon gear.
    But take a look at what is being used by many professionals at sporting events. The vast majority are using Canon's. There has to be a reason for there madness
    Tennessee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    Since I do wildlife photography for a living I may as well chime in. I am partial to Canon's because that is what I started with. And whatever you start with it what you will build on as you add more camera's and gear. I would not fell handicapped in the least if I had to buy just Nikon gear.
    But take a look at what is being used by many professionals at sporting events. The vast majority are using Canon's. There has to be a reason for there madness
    That is all quite true. But do comparisons between high end pro models have any significance at all to someone buying an entry level consumer DSLR?

    Canon pro models have had two significant advantages for the past few years. One has been a 35mm full frame sized digital sensor, and the other is lower noise. But the D300 and D3 model have shifted the lead to Nikon; and some would also argue that Nikon has better glass. It looks as if Nikon is again probably going to be the leading brand for the current cycle of "a few years". The lead swings with regularity from one to the other... and will no doubt go back to Canon at some point.

    None of that probably as any significance at all to people buying a consumer grade DSLR! I doubt that comparisons between the high end pro models is at all significant for entry level consumer models.

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    Another major reason many pros switched to Canon predates digital completely. Canon introduced some really great IS lenses several years before anyone else had any.

    As far as the quality of glass goes, the general consensus that I hear most is that Canon has slightly better long lenses, and Nikon has better wide lenses. I am somewhat skeptical of that consensus anymore. Both have improved to where there isn't much between them. Although I still think Nikon has some slightly better wide pro lenses. Another area where Nikon still trumps Canon is in the reliability of flash metering. I'm not complaining about my Canon flashes, but I do think the edge still goes to Nikon.

    But I agree, this has very little to do with current buyers of low end to mid range gear.

    And I also think that Pentax and Sony are becoming quite competitive to both Nikon & Canon. Their sales numbers are still not high enough to be a threat, but their equipment is first rate, and better than C&N in a few areas. I still think that having in camera IS would tip me to towards buying Pentax if I was jumping in right now. Their prices are great too.

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    I have heard a lot of complaints about Nikon grainy pictures compare to Canon. So unless you buy one of the latest generation of Nikon camera, I would go with Canon. The D3 and D300 seem to be a lot better with noise.

    Thi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
    That is all quite true. But do comparisons between high end pro models have any significance at all to someone buying an entry level consumer DSLR?

    Canon pro models have had two significant advantages for the past few years. One has been a 35mm full frame sized digital sensor, and the other is lower noise. But the D300 and D3 model have shifted the lead to Nikon; and some would also argue that Nikon has better glass. It looks as if Nikon is again probably going to be the leading brand for the current cycle of "a few years". The lead swings with regularity from one to the other... and will no doubt go back to Canon at some point.

    None of that probably as any significance at all to people buying a consumer grade DSLR! I doubt that comparisons between the high end pro models is at all significant for entry level consumer models.
    Yes, Nikon riles the lens world. Just look at all of these Nikon lenses. But wait, is that black-color lens a Canon's?
    http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?i...lery&no=435970

    Hint:It's a joke. Nikon makes black-color lenses. A few canon lenses are black, however, but not the one shown in the photo.

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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Default Canon...

    A few months back I got my first DSLR, a Canon 40D. I researched the Nikon and Canon products extensively before making a decision. In the end, it was the incredible line up of available lenses that made me choose the Canon. There are tons of options for lenses if you get a Canon. While Nikon has several to choose from for its cameras, you will find Sony, Olympus, and Pentax offer very few in comparison. The more you get into photography, the more you will see that the lenses are far more important than the camera itself. The Nikon D40X or the Canon Rebel Xti would both make great first DSLR's. If I were you, I would give thought to what you wanted to photograph. Hence, what lenses you will want to add to the set up. Then decide if Nikon or Canon is what you want. I have the Canon 40D and love it. More than I needed, but glad I got it. My brother and a coworker recently got the Canon Xti. They are both very happy and are now adding additional lenses based on their needs. The beauty in having a Canon in my opinion is that there are so many options for lenses. I have added a Canon 10-22, 24-105 IS, and 100-400 IS. But everyones interest is different and their choice in lenses will be dictated by that. B&H Photo/Video is the most respected online retailer of photography equipment. It would be good for you to go to their website and pretend you just got a Nikon D40X or Canon Xti. Then look at how many lens options are available to you based on what camera you chose. You may find that you are in good shape either way. Or you may (as I) be confident that the full line up of Canon lenses justifies buying the Canon camera. For what it is worth, I bought my dad a Nikon D40 for Christmas. It suits his needs well. For myself, the Canon lenses sold me the Canon camera. Either way you go, there is something else you need to know. Post processing. Photoshop Elements 6.0 is a great software package that will allow you to enhance your images significantly. I am just now getting my feet wet, but I can say with certainty that if you want the best results, you will be "editing" your images with such software. Basically, I just increase the color, saturation, and sharpness. It makes the images 100X better than how they come out of the camera. Nearly all the images you see in magazines have been enhanced to add color, sharpness, etc... It can be a very simple thing and the more you get into it, it can be very complicated. I am just learning about it and can recommend the Photoshop Elements 6.0 with no reservations. You can use it to store all your images, enchance them, and such. It also resizes them for sharing on web sites like Flickr and Photobucket. I use Flickr and love it. Resizing just makes a smaller file size that is downloaded faster. The image still looks the same on the computer screen. The full size images are what you would use for printing and such. I am a bit off subject here, but wanted to emphasize that when one thinks of digital photography, you should think of step one as taking the image with the camera and step two as "post processing" or "editing" in a software program like Elements 6.0. A great photography site is www.photo.net . It is the biggest photography forum I have seen and gets tons of activity. Go to the Nikon forum and ask the question you asked here. Then go to the Canon forum and do the same. You will get 30 responses in the next 24 hours. Tons of information is awaiting you there. There are about 20 forums. There are brand specific forums and interest specific forums. I like the Nature forum myself. Lots of great information. You must check it out. For online sharing, Flickr is great. I will attach a link below to some of my pictures on Flickr so you can see what it looks like. It is extremely easy to use and allows you to share your photos with others with the click of a button. I will attach a few other links that may be of interest to you. No matter what camera you get, get some books. There are books specific to the models you mentioned for sale at B&H. Example "Digital Field Guide for the Canon Xti" etc... They tell you how to use YOUR camera, not just general photography how to stuff. There are DVD's to teach you how to use them as well. I would get that and one or two general digital photography books. This will speed up the learning curve significantly. I apologize if you already know all this. But I had to start from scratch. I didn't know a thing about photography. Still don't know much. But with the books I got, it is making more sense all the time. I am rambling a bit. Below are some links that may interest you. Feel free to send me a pm or email if you want more thoughts. When the Flickr link opens, click "view slideshow" in the upper right side to see a brief slideshow of the images.

    The below links are from Maine's coastline (and lighthouses) and here on Nantucket,Mass where I am currently working. Took these in the last few months with my Canon 40D.

    http://www.flickr.com/gp/21144083@N02/W87s48

    http://www.flickr.com/gp/21144083@N02/87M815

    On the below Flickr link, when the single picture opens, click "all sizes" which is on top of the picture, then click view large size (or full size), and dowload (open) the image. It is a nice full moon photo I got with the 100-400. You will need to make it full screen to appreciate.

    http://www.flickr.com/gp/21144083@N02/0Q16Yz

    Below is a B&H link to Canon Xti

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Rebel_XTi.html

    Below is a link to the 57 Canon lense for it!

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=&cltp=&clsgr=

    Below is link to books/DVD's/software that would round out the package.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...tography_.html

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ide_Combo.html

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...S_Digital.html

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Software.html
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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    Canon or Nikon, it is always a great debate. One is better at this aspect while the other is better at another. It is a seesaw battle between the two companies to out do the other. I have seen many pro's switching back and forth between the two brands. For a serious amateur, I say you can't go wrong with either one.

    I personally would vote for Canon camp because they are more consistent in their product availability. They have high quality lens for everything you want to shoot. danattherock is right about the lens is more important than the camera.

    So far I am happy with the Canon products that I have, 30D & 5D. I have no problems with the two bodies, knock on wood.

    Thi

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    I chose Nikon because I had always wanted Nikon dating back to when I was shooting Minolta for film (think XD11, and X700 - that goes back a WAYS . . . ).

    One of the attractions of the Nikon lineup was the lens compatibility. Using any of the cameras from the D80 on up to the new D3, one can mate Nikon glass going back 50 years if you want to (assuming the lens is AI, or has been converted to AI). This opens up a whole lot of really good, and really inexpensive glass with all of the manual focus lenses from years past.

    Canon abandoned the mount used in their cameras in about 1985, moving to their new AF line, leaving all the old glass useless.

    This might not be a big issue to most folks, as they want the latest and greatest available to go with their high-tech camera. But for me it opened up some doors to use some of the older glass to play with, that I couldn't have done going Canon.

    Of course the other reason I went Nikon was because we bought my son a Canon Rebel XTI setup a year ago for Christmas, and I didn't want him borrowing my gear to see it broken or lost . . .

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    I believe you are referring to Canon EF series lenses. You can use any Canon lens with an EF on the barrel.

    Keep in mind that one still can use old lenses on any new camera, except that the camera won't communicate with the lens, and also that the lens mount may have to be replaced to fit the new camera. The old Nikor lenses won't work with new Nikon digital m=cameras, unless one install a new mount-kit on the lens. Also, if one has a real good Canon or Nikor lens one does not want to get rid of, one still can use that lens with either brand of Camera by replacing the lens mount with one of the kits available today. In fact, I can use an old Nikor lens on my Rebel XT if I wanted, but the kits to change the lens can be expensive. For example, there are photographers using Canon cameras with Leica and other lenses using such kits, but one may have to focus manually.

    A final comment: Unlike Leitz and some other EU lens brands, the new AF lenses form Canon and Nikon outperform most the older AF Canon and Nikon lenses. It means that, at least to me, it makes no sense to use a much older AF lens unless it's of great quality. But since those old Leitz or Leica lenses are so incredibly sharp and expensive, one can always go the "kit" route I mentioned above if one has one of those lenses around.

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    Default review

    There is a great site where you can find in depth reviews of cameras/lenses. It is DP Review. Below is a link to the review of the Canon Xti. Notice at the top where it has a white box with "Introduction" in it. It is page one of like 27. The white box at the top will let you go to different pages of the very detailed review. Great site for comparing cameras and such.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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    Now, I would agree with you, Nikon users, that this Canon lens' price is a little ridiculous
    http://laughingsquid.com/99000-canon...elephoto-lens/

    BUT, would you believe that this lens is already sold at B&H?

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    "Just look at all of these Nikon lenses. But wait..." (http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?i...lery&no=435970)

    Now what is a *funny* picture. Everything says Nikon. Even the photographers jackets, but I count 27 Canon EF mount lenses to 2 Nikors. And one thing you can't do is use Canon lenses on a Nikon camera. No one makes an adapter for doing that -- at least not that I'm aware of. You can easily go the other way though.

    The tide is swinging. Nikon's D300 and D3 are serious competitors, and more are coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Strutz View Post
    "Just look at all of these Nikon lenses. But wait..." (http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?i...lery&no=435970)

    Now what is a *funny* picture. Everything says Nikon. Even the photographers jackets, but I count 27 Canon EF mount lenses to 2 Nikors. And one thing you can't do is use Canon lenses on a Nikon camera. No one makes an adapter for doing that -- at least not that I'm aware of. You can easily go the other way though.

    The tide is swinging. Nikon's D300 and D3 are serious competitors, and more are coming.
    All that is good for us the buyers. Right? The competition adds not only to product quality and technological advances, but to more features. The D3 is a good thing, but the top of the line Canon is already at 21MP sensor, and at least $2K higher than the D3. Maybe more competition from Nikon will bring the price down (at least I hope so). Nikon entered the full-size sensor not too long ago, while Canon has done it for a few years now.

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