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Thread: SFW - Alaska Chapter

  1. #1
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    Default SFW - Alaska Chapter

    So I am hearing more and more about the SFW. I have been to thier webpage and saw the "Board Members" of the Alaska Chapter.

    What I am wondering is.....does anyone have any more information on them other that was you see on the webpage. Whats thier real agenda - and will if fit with my beliefs.

    I have considered joining, but I want to make sure what I'm getting first. Seeing a few of the names of the Board Members makes me a tad bit skeptical. I'm not going to toss my money foward with out some more information on what the platform is. I've done that once with Alaska FNAWS and didnt like what I saw. Its getting to point where there are so many different groups competing for our money that something has to give, and thats not my pocketbook to every organization that comes along. From SCI to DU to Ruffed Grouse to the NRA most all have a somewhat specific goal in mind....SFW seems a bit vague

    The best I can determine is that the SFW is going to be a front group for getting legislation passed that will benefit SFW members...

    At least one thing I can agree with in what they are going to do with the Black Bears in Unit 16

    At any rate - any dicussions Pro or Con for SFW is what I am looking for

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    Member sheep man's Avatar
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    If you have any dout about what SFW is doing and will be doing,take a look at utah, and other states that SFW is involved in, it's all good stuff, for 25.00 which is less then a 1/2 tank of gas,we get support from a group that is fighting for alaska issues, preditor control,etc...i could go on and on......go to one of the local shows and see for yourself....not sure when the next SFW show is?????maybe somone out there will throw us a date....

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    Member Bear Buster's Avatar
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    I can't see much difference between them and the sierra club...so if your into groups like sierra and green peace and shop at REI...it's probably for you.

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    Default SFW

    What does SFW mean or what is it name.

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    Member Bear Buster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC View Post
    What does SFW mean or what is it name.
    Sportman for Fish and Wildlife

  6. #6

    Default SFW

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Buster View Post
    Sportman for Fish and Wildlife

    http://www.adn.com/front/story/341308.html

    understanding what they can do for sportsman and wildlife


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Buster View Post
    I can't see much difference between them and the sierra club...so if your into groups like sierra and green peace and shop at REI...it's probably for you.
    How can they even be included in the same sentence with sierra club and green peace. You obviously don't have a clue about what sfw has done in the lower 48. Does wolf de-listing ring a bell??
    Art is making something out of nothing and selling it.
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    "The SFW effort involves rotating several hundred people in six-day shifts into about a dozen camps, timed to coincide with the legal baiting season in the area, from April 15 to June 30, Rossi said. The group will assist hunters with bait, food and transportation costs where possible,"


    Questions I have:

    1. Where did these several hundred people come from?

    2. How did they sign up? How did they organize?

    3. How do they pay for air-transportation? Which member is in line first?
    4. How did they pull off no meat salvage requirements? These are black bears, right?

    5. In other words, can a fortified group really bring about change in wildlife management?

    And the most important of all,,,,,, What people are eligible for a moose tag after SFW "clean's up"?

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    So how does the SFW mission compare to SCI? I'm an SCI member and even went to their Reno show this year, but could appreciate an organization a little more down to earth. I think SCI has done a lot of good it just seems like they have taken hunting to another level. A level beyond the reasons I enjoy hunting.

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    WOOPS, My origional set of quotes were from the Anchorage Daily News. Sorry.

  11. #11
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    Default SFW

    To put SFW in with Green Peace ect. Shows a guy needs to get educated before he starts talking....SFW is a fast growing group who are rapidly changing how wildlife is manage in every state they get into...They have figured out that change comes from POLITICIANS at a state level. Not hunters or biologist ect.They have really done some amazing things in the last few years.They use full time lobbyist to work on state legislatures to bring money into wildlife.Are they perfect? NOPE. Do i agree with everything they say NOPE. As a member of pretty much all the ''Clubs'' I think they are easily the most successfull.Maybe because there money stays in each state...Agree or not with all they do.But i guarantee you they will make Alaska hunting a awful lot better...One thing they say
    in SFW "if you dont like or agree with what we are doing,then get involved and help us".

  12. #12
    Member Alasken's Avatar
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    "if you dont like or agree with what we are doing,then get involved and help us".

    Brilliant.
    Art is making something out of nothing and selling it.
    - Frank Zappa

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alasken View Post
    "if you dont like or agree with what we are doing,then get involved and help us".

    Brilliant.
    I always have such a hard time buying such statements. I get the same line from the teacher's union that I have to be a member of. I have complained about certain union positions, and the answer is always something along the same lines - Well, get involved and you can help direct the union! - Mmm-hmm, sure.

    While there is truth to this notion, every group has their core beliefs. One of SWF's (according to Seekins, one of the founders of the Alaska chapter) is to manage for abundance. Personally, I would rather manage for sustainability and overall ecological health. Sometimes what some would define as abundance of ungulates is not a good thing for the habitat. Additionally, if we somehow manage to meet these goals of abundance, the numbers of hunters necessary to harvest the additional animals will only increase crowding and the associated issues that we hunters deal with. Thanks, but no thanks.

    I just don't buy that someone joining up could change their core beliefs.

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    So far it appears that SFW is pushing management issues in line with sound biology supported by the ADF&G. As far as 16B being at risk for crowding I doubt that will be an issue due to its lack of significant road access. If it was accessible then we probably wouldn't have had a bear problem there to begin with. I agree that killing baby bears will hold the entire hunt in a bad light but most people are ill informed about the number of calves killed each year. I allways found it ironic that the same person that would complain about hunting bears is the first to shreik and ask their guide to save the poor calf when they witness one getting brought down! 1-3% calf recruitment is rediculous and it will be a VERY long time before those numbers rebound if something is not done. We need to put money into education of that same 70-80%. But more than that we need to recruite them to join us in the field even if it is just rabbit or grouse. There is nothing like eating fresh ptarmigan tent side on the tundra and what a great way to introduce someone to hunting! I also like to feed friends moose meat and let them rave about it for a while before we tell them what it is.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    . But more than that we need to recruite them to join us in the field even if it is just rabbit or grouse. There is nothing like eating fresh ptarmigan tent side on the tundra and what a great way to introduce someone to hunting! I also like to feed friends moose meat and let them rave about it for a while before we tell them what it is.
    Agreed on that one. I got one of my closest friends into hunting this past fall. He's a die-hard liberal that I often disagree with, but at least now he understands the value and importance of hunting. He has been eating his moose all winter and continually raves about it. He just bought his first firearm, an idea that would have seemed preposterous to him only a year ago.

    I took my 8 year old nephew out for hares again today, but once again failed to help him get his first animal. It'll come soon, though.

    One the issue of what SFW is doing, it would be a bit more palatable to the public if they would decide not to shoot cubs and to harvest and donate all of the meat from the bears. Leaving the carcasses, while perfectly legal, will be a very bad P.R. move. You can bet that anti-hunting groups will be out there with cameras if this goes through.

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    I have a hard time buying any of the proposed plan or the motives of the group behind it. It is just so wrong on so many different levels. Not to mention that it is based on data from a Phony Tony study that was, in my opinion, set up by the animal rights groups to show that there wasn't a need for wolf control. Sure some bears may take some calfs, but then the fish are in the rivers and then the berries are out and then the bears are in den. Wolves need meat year round and are prolific breeders. Bears are slow to increase their numbers. The state had wolf control for years and it was shown to increase ungulates, but still keep a wolf population. This is like a nuclear bomb for game management and the effects of the fallout are unknown!

    Set up and run 12 camps for hundreds of hunters? 16B isn't that big of an area really to support that and not interfere with another's non-organization hunt. By that I mean guided hunts, personal hunts, and families that may already have been using certain places for years. How many baits are they planning on running per camp?

    Manage for abundance? 16B has an abundance of bears. Sounds like the unit is already meeting the groups goals. For one species that is.
    This group, on this issue, is comparable to the extremism and fanaticism shown by the animal rights groups on their issues. This is soooo wrong!

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    Well Brian,it looks like you have all the answers...You should join up.Put your money were your mouth is so to speak...You will find its not as easy as it sounds.Once you get involved you find out everyone sees things different,or has different goals.It can get complicated very quickly trying to meet every ones objectives and i bet you will change your mind on some stuff when you hear others opinions...With that said,after reading some of your posts on here, You should get involved, I really believe you could help them out...

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullcry View Post
    Well Brian,it looks like you have all the answers.
    Not even close. I know that I don't have all the answers, but am certainly willing to learn. Not planning to join SFW, though. They've done some good things and I hold no ill will towards them, but managing for abundance is not always in the best interest of the habitat or of hunters. Since that's one of their stated goals, I'll pass.

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    So you mean because one of their stated goals "manage for abundance"doesnt fit what you think, that means you dont want to be apart of the solution at all? I hope you disagree with a lot more of their objectives than that, because it seems like a copout.... So that also means down the road when they start changing things, you wont have much of a leg to stand on if you [or others] start complaining....

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    [QUOTE=fullcry;229649]So you mean because one of their stated goals "manage for abundance"doesnt fit what you think, that means you dont want to be apart of the solution at all?

    I think the solution is education. Many wildlife biologists/managers really cringe at the thought of managing for adbundance as it tends to throw the predator prey cycle out of whack. At what point do we as stewards of the land and wildlife look at the outside factors involving this trend to manage this way? Do you think managing a resource for the economic (tourism, sport hunting) potential is really the way to a sustainable management plan for the future of the sport? Sure once in a while a shock to the "system" such as intensive predator harvest is needed (or at least we are conditioned to believe so), however this is a temporary fix to the problem. Mother nature has always been the best manager of the natural resources and unfortunately us humans have jacked it all up. Eventually every sportsman will at some time or another sit back and realize that there are more consumptive users these days than even 2 years ago and as the numbers of users go up so does demand. Unfortunately the supply remains the same or in some cases diminishes to a level that only the wealthy and privileged can enjoy.

    Sorry for the rant see what being married to bio will get you!

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