Street gossip down here says that a local business has sold at least 40 units that attach to 50 horsepower four-strokes that essentially convert the motors to 60's. Also heard that authorities will be seriously looking for anyone using such units, that any violation will result in a court date, and that authorities will seize the motor.
Anything to this? Anyone heard anything? Or is it just empty talk?
Are you talking about Yamaha's or other makes of motors?
My guess is rumors. But I am sure someone will attempt it, I hope the authorities do seize the motor, fine the person, and FINE THE BUSINESS! Those ECU units are not that easy to get a hold of. It isn't good business.
Motor monkeyshines. . .
I heard that enforcement has been in contact with the manufacturers of Yamaha, Evinrude, and Mercury.
Originally Posted by tcman
DNR Fact sheet for new regs
Can be seen here....
Thought I would post this here to quell the "rumors" about the special decal.
Anyone else hear about the special decal that will be needed? It says that you can get them from any Ranger. Looks like they need to inspect your boat as well....
Just wondering if anybody has heard this yet and if they have plans to do inspections at certain places and times....
Business? What kind of "business" would knowingly violate the law? If a business is caught violating the 50 horsepower rule, it should be put out of business.
Originally Posted by yukon
I also heard that any "stickers" will not limit the enforcement's ability to follow up on any suspicious operator who appears to be running in excess of the power restrictions. The sticker will not prevent future inspections of an engine should there be probable cause to investigate.
50hp to 60hp
Is what folks are trying to do Marcus. With a new ECU (fairly spendy), one can take a Yamaha 50hp, as all Yamaha 50's have a true 60hp power head, and turn it into a 60hp. They have stopped the sale of the ECU's in Alaska.
I might also add that if someone attempts this they could possibly burn up their motor. If they are not installed correctly with the right restriction and fuel/air ratio, you can easily burn up your motor.
Bad, bad business/es. . .
There's always the Internet, Charlie. Dope is illegal too, but outlaws always find a way.
Originally Posted by Sockeye Charlie
Still can't figure out what kind of "business" would do such a thing. yukon?
Ya know Marcus I totally agree that the motors should not be 50 hp much less 60.
Still you are coming very close IMO of accusing Yukon and Sockeye of putting ECUs on thier engines j/b they are guides. Or saying ALL guides will do this?
I think that's wrong.
I would also say that many boats before the 50hp sure looked fast from where I was sitting. So I see what you are saying, I would just ask for some manners here.
Huh? I didn't read that at all.
Originally Posted by akbrownsfan
Grampy, I am not saying Marcus actually SAID that. Marcus I would apologize if in fact I did. I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.
I just noticed the tone, and what he said and where I thought he was taking it. I also did the IMO thing which means In My Opinion.
See Grampy, maybe you've noticed but in some threads people are being abusive. I don't think most mean to be, they just so wrapped up in the arguments that they do. Then maybe since it's the internet and you don't see actual PEOPLE..we seem to forget that is who we are argueing with...People.
There are some on here I truly don't like. Even then I get surprised when I see they take kids fishing, or vets, or hunt , or fish. Then I realize I'm looking at tiny slice on them on this board...and more than likely those folks are ok too. That while we discuss things we usually disagree on, we more than likely have many, many things we do agree on. So while I agree with you that Guides taking a sunday is bad, While I agree with Marcus that people used to soup up engines to 50 and now some will do so to 60.......I just don't see how taking it out on Yukon or Sockeye will change that. We can bash guides all we want, but you know how much Brass it takes Yukon to keep posting? So I for one appreciate it. I can disagree with someone or what they do or what they say without it being personal.
I am also not saying you or anyone else has been abusive. That is for each person to evaluate themselves.
That's fine ABF, but the "guide" word wasn't mentioned until you posted. And I don't see how you can possibly think anything was being taken out on yukon, Sockey, or the guides. I took "business" to mean the business selling the ECU's - and yukon mentioned that.
Then Marcus I certainly apologize. Like I said I don't want to put words in your mouth. I respect you as a poster.
In reading threads on here it seems lately we can't have threads without insults. I fail to see how they benifit anyone. Like I said earlier I am not saying you insulted anyone.
Maybe I'm just touchy? That was my first read of the day, and I hadn't had enough coffee.
Originally Posted by Marcus
Thanks for your post. I read the same email that I presume you received. That message was plagued with implications that the guides are modifying the motors. I did not at all perceive that from your post.
I believe that it is the nature of some to find the boundaries and step across. For some it is probing to see where the real boundaries are, for others it is a prideful/power thing. It really doesn't matter what social group these are from... there are bad apples in most every cart. Indeed, I have heard bragging from several private boaters how they have beat the system and over powered their motors (undetectable by DNR).
Frankly, I don't have anything to prove... I don't have to be the fastest boat on the water. While I do see some benefit to increased horse power (i.e. 50 from 35), the jury is still out in my mind. At $4 per gallon of gas, if I can demonstrate a savings by staying at 35... (if legal), that's right where I'll be. To pay the $$$ to over power my motor and take the risk of buying a new motor (either because the mod destroyed it or it was confiscated) is just sillyness (really stupidity). Believe it or not, there are guides on the river who are law-abiding and have integrity.
Again, John, after reading your post and knowing what was in the email sent out by a member of our community, I appreciate your post.
Let me explain my "business" comment before it gets taken to something way different than intended.
In my dad's retirement we wanted a job, so he went back to work as a boat mechanic for a Mercury dealer, when he was young he supplemented our families income wrenching motors. In this job he would go to Wisconson to Mercury trainings. All boat manufacturers have a stock head that usually covers 2 or 3, sometimes 4 horsepower categories, no trade secrets there. Mercury was very protective of their ECU chips.
Why, business, why sell a $350 chip that boosts a motor from 150hp to 175hp? When they get $1500 more selling the entire motor. If someone wants to upgrade then they have to buy the new motor, not just a chip.
It is also not just as simple as installing a new chip to get more horsepower, there are timing issues, airflow issues and other that truely make a motor more horsepower.
So that is what I meant by business, nothing more, nothing less. It has nothing to do with my business.
As a guide it is simply not worth the risk of being caught. Not only does a guide get fined (just like the average Joe) we also get suspended for 3 days. Not worth it. We are subject to random checks, without cause, while non-guides are not. I am not complaining just telling you how it is and why it is not worth it. When I was checked it was no big deal, I was pulling my boat out of the water, when I got out to strap it down, the Park Ranger respectfully walked over and asked if he could look under the cowling, I pulled the cowling off, he said looks good and was on his way. No big deal.
As far as business, I will make the same amount of money during the summer if I run 35 or 50. What I can tell you, my boat gets on step much faster running 50 but does not gain much on the top end, just greatly reduces the wake while getting on step.
The naivety amazes me.
Originally Posted by yukon
It's been well-known for years that engines are inconspicuously modified to increase horsepower. From over-sizing cylinder bores to simply changing out an ECU. All you have to do is talk with the local outboard shops. They'll tell you what goes on. Parts are readily availabe just about anywhere.
There's already a bunch of modified 50's out there. Do you honestly think some of those guys were pushing their huge boats/loads up-river that fast with a 35? Enforcement will still be a fiasco. Not enough money, manpower, and expertise to do it right. Punishment not severe enough.
When they approved the 50 hp increase they opened up a can of worms...more boats, bigger boats, bigger loads, more speed, increased hydrocarbon contribution, erosion, and the list goes on. Enforcement is the least of our worries.
The only difference in a 50 hp Yamaha and a 60 hp Yamaha (the most popular outboard on the River) is the ECU. Available on-line for about $300. Virtually undetectable when swapped. The ECU takes into account timing, airflow, and other issues you mention.
Originally Posted by yukon
Not true. Anyone can be randomly checked.
Originally Posted by yukon
direct from DNR
The following is from Jack Sinclair at DNR about this issue. I asked him to comment so I could get the scope direct from the horses mouth. I removed a persons name in the second comment so protect him - you will see .... where I did this.
I have been in direct contact with the manufacturers (Yamaha, Evinrude and Mercury, so far) regarding this question. We have briefed all the rangers on what to specifically to look for. It is not just a chip change out but requires a different electronic control unit (ECU) that is marked and colored differently than the 50 hp units. We have heard all the rumors and understand that the potential to modify engines has always been present. the difference now is that any violation of this regulation is not a bailable offense as in the past, but a mandatory court appearance. Our rangers will be seizing engines that are found in violation and I would hope that it will only take a couple of $6,000 losses to send the message home to those who would try to play this game again with us.
I am going to address ..... question here as well regarding the Department issued decal. It may be that the decals will allow the rangers to have at least an initial inspection of all engines that either over 35 hp or operating within the month of July on the river; it will not however limit the river ranger's ability to follow up on any suspicious operator who appears to be running in excess of the power restrictions. The sticker will not prevent future inspections of an engine should there be probable cause to investigate.
Thanks for the inquiry.