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Thread: 7mm WM Bar bullet

  1. #1
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    Default 7mm WM Bar bullet

    BrownBear, and crowd:

    What's the biggest, and baddest, bullet for my 7mm Weatherby Magnum and Brown Bar Protection?

    Thanks
    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
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    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 175 Nosler

    175 Nosler Part and IMR 7828 or RL 25.

    Fed 215 or WLRM primer

    and a 338 Win or 375

    I like bigger holes in Big Bears!

  3. #3

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    I've got no qualms about the 175 Nosler. Avoiding trouble by using your head is the first step in bear defense, and that's always worked for me. But based on performance on other big game, I have no doubts I could move to the second step using that bullet if required.

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    Default Brown Bear Bullets

    I like Nosler bullets too, but I wouldn't use them on big bears out of a 7-mag. I've had 175 grain Nosler Partitions come apart on close shots. I loaded them in a 7-Mag for a possible spare rifle on a upcoming moose hunt. After working up the loads I decided to try them out on deer and elk that fall and see what I thought. I took a nice white-tail at 50-60 yards during the rut. I hit it broadside twice and once with the deer quartering away approx 125 yards out. The first two just blew apart, bits and peices of lead and jacket material everywhere, reminded me of the old Winchester Power Points or Remington Core Locks. The third bullet peeled all the way back to the partition shedding the front section. I took a cow elk latter in the season and basicly experienced the same results. Yes, the animals went down but I would have liked the bullets to stay together a bit more. I talked with a couple Nosler salesmen at a Outdoor show and they encouraged me to try the Nosler Partition Golds or Failsafes, but both are no longer available, unfortunately. I stockpiled a good supply of both in calibers I still load them in.

    For large bears my first picks would be Swift A-Frames or Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. I've used the A-Frames in my 338 WM and 7-mag with good results on larger game; moose, caribou, and elk. I've tried the Trophy Bonded in a couple rifles, but couldn't get the accuracy I could with the Swifts so I stayed with them.

    Woody

  5. #5

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    First time I've ever heard of such performance from Nosler partitions at any range in more than 40 years of using them. Must be a bad batch of bullets floating around, and you're the first to find them.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    First time I've ever heard of such performance from Nosler partitions at any range in more than 40 years of using them. Must be a bad batch of bullets floating around, and you're the first to find them.
    Cute! - I can do without the condescending attitude. I'm sure if that was the case the Nosler reps would have given me a new box of 175 grain partitions at the show, they had plenty on hand. They said at close range with enough velocity the Partition will come apart (just what you don't want in a close range situation). Which is the very reason the Partition Gold had the steel cup in the rear section. This isn't my ramblings, but as told to me by the Nosler rep. Nosler is an excellent bullet, but wouldn't be my first choice in a 7mm caliber for brown bear, IMHO. Lastly, why do you think Swift went with a larger partition dividing the two sections and a bonded frontal section in the A-Frame? Call Swift if you want, they are excellent to deal with. They realized Nosler had a good product, but could be improved upon, and they did, I think.

    Woody

  7. #7

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    Not being cute or condescending. Only reporting my own experience and all I've seen with friends using Nosler in the field. One good hit broadside has always been enough. Sorry it hasn't worked out so well for you.

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    Default

    Normally, I use 160 grain Noslers, and H1000.

    I was just wondering if it would be prudent to carry something else, if I wasn't hunting, but packin that rifle for Bar protection.

    I loaded a bunch of 175 grain Sierra BTs, and I didn't load them to max.

    I've got a lot more on hand.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  9. #9

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    With the potential of encountering bears on a hunt for other game, I don't think I'd be carrying the Sierras. In my experience they're pretty fragile at high velocity and close range, which is what you're talking about in an emergency bear encounter. I love them for long range shooting, and they perform very well on game once velocity drops a bit. But I had a Sierra 175 come apart on a deer I shot at about 15 feet. And that was from a 7x57 at about 2400 fps muzzle velocity. Your mag will be pushing it a whole lot faster at such close range.

    I gotta say that I'm really high on the Nosler 160 as my general purpose hunting bullet- everything from deer to moose, with elk and bou between. Never popped a bear with it, but I'd sure rather have that than a Sierra if problems erupted.

  10. #10
    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Sierra

    Sierra GK Bullets.......killed alot of game with them........but I do not recomend them for the big bears......and I will not use them in Brown bear areas. Jacket construction just not strong enough for me..........love them for caribou, deer, black bear and interior grizzly...........but not for Big Bears!

    In the 7mm the 175 Nosler Part or Swift A frame would be the ticket......but again I would not be caught with a 7mm in big bear country........the 300 Win would be the smallest I would carry with 180gr Part or TSX

    The 160gr Nosler Part was a favorite with Reloader 22 and H4831 in the 7mm Mag................WAS WAS WAS! in the lower 48!

    I would recom a 30-06 with 180 TSX or Nosler Part before I would suggest a 7mm Mag with Sierra for Big Bear!

    Remember Part are designed to shed 40% or so on impact........no bonded their like the A Frame.

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    Default

    I was afraid someone would tell be something like that about the Sierras.

    Thanks
    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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    I don't think Brownbear was being condescending. I've not seen such from him in the past.

    I have to say for about the 100th time; every animal I ever shot with a partition has died. But I will also say that if and when carrying any of the "super magnum" rifles I would prefer the Swift A-frame to any bullet available. And a 7 mm Weatherby mag is one of them. The 7mm, 175 A-frame is made for those occasions when we want to stretch the capabilities of this small bore into a giant killer.

    The partition front half is a killing machine. Yes it does come apart. It fragments and curls the jacket back and wraps it around the bottom half when impact velocity is high enough. The bottm half then, like the energizer bunny, keeps on keepin' on as far as its mass and velocity will take it. That generally is more than enough but when stretching a high velocity caliber to its limits, it may cause the partition to do its thing too soon. This would cause the major wound cavity to be too shallow to reach the vitals of larger heavier animals. i.e. big brown bears or moose. I think velocity and bullet construction must be matched to the animal. I wonder how many times I've said that.

    I prefer the Sierra pro-hunter bullets to the game kings because they keep the jacket on better. neither are bear bullets for the 7 Wby.

    It's funny about the advocates of the copper club. The say use a lighter bullet (so it will fit the case and the magazine) that retains 100% of it's weight. (7mm, 160 grain *100=160 grains) Why not use a A-frame that will reliably expand and weighs what it should, yet only retains 90% of it's weight at exit. (7mm, 175 grains * 90%=157.5 grains) I guess they are right, those 2 1/2 grains may be needed.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default Kodiak for a Kodiak?

    Just a question for all: Why not a Kodiak Bonded Bullet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKing02 View Post
    Just a question for all: Why not a Kodiak Bonded Bullet?
    They expand a lot and when driven to Wby velocity, they may expand too soon/much and that limits penetration. Bigger tougher critters need bullets that tend to penetrate better. The A-frame has a bulkhead to limit expansion to about two diameters and a heavy shank that is a strong pusher. I really like kodiaks and it is my preferred bullet for many calibers and many hunts but this ain't it. In a 40 caliber, yeah, but not in the micro bores.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Smitty, the guys are right, a 7mm of any case size just ain't a bear rifle. For bears, for me, anything starting with 33, 35, 37, or 40 is a bear caliber. For your 7 wby, that 175 Partition is great, and is ok, in a pinch, in case you HAVE TO shoot a bear that shows up to confiscate your caribou, or sheep. We all know it ain't exactly a bear caliber, but how many of us are really going to carry a 375 sheep hunting?? or for caribou? I plan on taking my 7 Wby out for caribou. It don't make me an idiot for even carrying a 7mm into bear country. In fact, there ain't anywhere here in Alaska that ISN'T bear country. You could run into a griz or Brownie about anywhere depending on the game being hunted. So, it would be good to have a heavy for caliber round along, for when the game is down, and you are packing out, or caping. For me, it's a 160 Fail safe. Is that heavy enough for brown bear? NO. But it's as good as a partition, which I have not yet tried in ANY of my 7's. The reason I haven't is because I have no notions that any of my 7's are for heavy game. I intend to use my 7's for deer, caribou, and maybe a moose if I have the rifle and NEED to drop that moose now instead of waiting for the next hunt, or to get another gun. I mainly use Ballistic Tips ans Accubonds. The partition is breaking up because it is really designed to stay together from the partition BACK. Yeah, it mush rooms at the right velocity, but at 60 yards and 3200 Feet per second, it CANNOT stay together for that perfect mushroom. A couple other options for you is to use a Woodleigh in 175 Solid--
    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...405&t=11082005
    Or an A-square Solid--here--
    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...302&t=11082005

    These bullets would be ok, but they still don't make any 7mm a bear stopper. Good luck sir.

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    [QUOTE=Murphy;220315]I don't think Brownbear was being condescending. I've not seen such from him in the past.


    And I don't think BrownBear was trying to be cute either, anyone who has seen him knows he gave that up along time ago

  17. #17

    Default Ha!

    Ain't that the truth! If anyone put up a homely contest, I could win that one hands down.

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    [quote=TheGoldrush;220697]
    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I don't think Brownbear was being condescending. I've not seen such from him in the past.


    And I don't think BrownBear was trying to be cute either, anyone who has seen him knows he gave that up along time ago
    OK guys, I get it! - I jumped a bit quick I guess. I do get tired of hearing that I'm the first guy that's ever happen to, I rather doubt that's the case. First thing I think of when I hear that is I wonder if he or she is paying attention or just flying through life with the blinders on.

    Woody

    PS: I'm sure I'm not in any runnings for sexiest man awards either.

    PSS: Still, I wouldn't recommend Nosler Partitions in a 7-mag for big bears.

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    I donít really plan to hunt huge bars with my 7mm Webby, nor do I plan to hunt Caribou with my 7mm Webby using any other load than one with 160 grain NPs.

    Howsomever, there are times when I carry a rifle for Bar Protection, and times that rifle might just be the 7mm Webby. It is SS and has a plastic stock, so it is Utility enough for everyday use, and in wet weather. I also have confidence in it.

    As a handloader, I have the option to make special purpose loads, pretty easily. Iíll need one that has essentially the same POI as my hunting load, for this application.

    Iím gonna buy me a box of the 175 grain Swift bullets. They probably have a design advantage over the NPís for the purposes that Murphy mentioned.

    Thanks to Murphy and everyone else for kicking this around.
    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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