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Thread: 30-06 & Nosler 180 gr Partition

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Default 30-06 & Nosler 180 gr Partition

    I am working up a 30-06 load using Winchester brass and Nosler 180 grain partition bullets. I am unable to reach the published velocity using the Nosler loading data and consistently fall 100 to 200 fps short depending on the powder. Now when I compare the load data from Hornady and Speer I see that they both consistently list max loads that are 1 to 2 grains more than the Nosler data. What gives? Have any of you guys noted the same lack of velocity performance loading the Nosler partitions?
    When I work up loads for Hornady or Speer bullets, my velocity usually comes pretty close to the published velocity but still falls a little short, but certainly not 200 fps short.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    I had the same experience with my 30-06. It ran slow with every load I tried. My best results were with H4350 with all the bullets I tried.

    Here are my results:

    Did some shooting with my 30-06. It is a push feed mod 70.

    Most every load I did seemed weak. But there were a couple that seemed like they might not be a complete waste of powder.

    I worked my way up to these loads

    200 TSX
    58 R22----2323
    58 H4831--2427
    58 H1000--2295
    54 H4350--2451

    -----------------------------------------

    220 partition

    R22 57.5 = 2402 H4350 53 = 2427
    H1000 61 = 2371
    H4831 58 = 2412, 2390

    -------------------------------------

    180 core lokt

    R22 62 = 2614
    H4831 62 = 2668,2649
    H4350 58 = 2651, 2698


    ------------------------------

    165 TSX

    R22 62 = 2657
    H4350 58 = 2795, 2801
    H4831 62 = 2742, 2729

    the 4350 looks good

    ----------------------------
    150 ballistic tip

    H4350 62 = 2987


    I am looking for feedback.

    Is this typical of the 30-06?


    These are all max loads in the loadbooks. Work up your own loads.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

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    What are your barrel lengths. The ones with 22" tubes generally have to be pushed a bit harder. The 4350's are great with 180s, but get just as good accuracy and better velocity from IMR4831. I havent gotten around to trying RL19 yet, but imagine that would also do well.

    The load I have been using the last couple of years is 180 Part, 56.5 IMR4831, Win Brass, and any LR primer. This shoots about 1-1 1/4" @ 2725 in a 24" M70. The same load with 55 grains of H4350 gives me 2650 for a comparison.

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Mine is a 22" barrel. The H4350 gave me the highest velocity with every bullet that I tried. I have loaded a bunch of loads with H414 and will try it later this spring.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

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    Ron: my 180 gr. partition load is 57 gr H4350. In my 24" pre 64 I get 2775 fps and the accuracy is very good. A friend of mine goes to 59 grains but at 58, I get a sticky bolt. Just my experience.

    I do find that the current loading books' max usually are not- at least not with my rifles. I have a 1963 Speer manual whose published max vel are correct with my rifles. But the powder choices then are getting limited now.

    Good luck. J.

  6. #6

    Default cases

    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    I am working up a 30-06 load using Winchester brass and Nosler 180 grain partition bullets. I am unable to reach the published velocity using the Nosler loading data and consistently fall 100 to 200 fps short depending on the powder. Now when I compare the load data from Hornady and Speer I see that they both consistently list max loads that are 1 to 2 grains more than the Nosler data. What gives? Have any of you guys noted the same lack of velocity performance loading the Nosler partitions?
    When I work up loads for Hornady or Speer bullets, my velocity usually comes pretty close to the published velocity but still falls a little short, but certainly not 200 fps short.
    Double check the manual and see which cases Nosler used to work up the loads. Winchester cases usually have a little more case capacity, which would drop velocities compared to Federal cases for example. If that's the circumstance, you can probably work up a little higher than book. If the loads were also developed with Win cases, then there's a chance of some difference in barrel or chamber dimensions. There would also be a difference if they used a different primer than you.

    Any time you mix and match components, you'll almost certainly experience different results than the manual.

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    thanks for the info and input guys, and Brown Bear, same case, same primer but no joy on same velocity! Of course did not consider barrel lenght and my Remington is sporting only 22 inches. Perhaps I will try some H4350 and see what happens. I wont really be satisfied untill I see 2700 fps on the old chrono screen. Anything beyond that with safe pressure is just a bonus, but anything less is really just a hot 308 load in my humble opinion.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Good news is it will still kill stuff dead. Havent shot anything with the 30-06 before but have used the 308 win on moose and black bear and it is not lacking anything that I need.

    I was actually looking for a 308 win when I found the deal on the 30-06.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  9. #9

    Default variables

    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    thanks for the info and input guys, and Brown Bear, same case, same primer but no joy on same velocity! Of course did not consider barrel lenght and my Remington is sporting only 22 inches. Perhaps I will try some H4350 and see what happens. I wont really be satisfied untill I see 2700 fps on the old chrono screen. Anything beyond that with safe pressure is just a bonus, but anything less is really just a hot 308 load in my humble opinion.
    I suspect you'll find what you're looking for and have fun in the process. There can be other variables at work, too. Different brand of rifle, different rifle in the same brand, different powder lot, different primer lot, different air temps. I don't really sweat 100 fps one way or the other, and comparing with the 308 is good rather than bad.

    I too have whacked my share of game with the 308, and never quite understood anyone saying the 30-06 is "better." Based on field performance on game comparing the 308 to the 30-06 was what first made me skeptical of "paper" ballistics and keyboard marksmen in general. Experts that pound the keyboards about the difference are spending way too much time typing and too little time hunting, at least when it comes to the comparisons that matter. You might get game animals' attention when ballistic differences top 200 fps, but I bet it takes a 300 fps difference to matter, and that due mostly to trajectory changes rather than impact on flesh and dead animal count.

    Enjoy your 06! It's going to do more on game than it will over a chronograph, and experts that say different need to do more hunting and less talking.

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    I hope that you didn’t take my statement to mean that I think the 308 underpowered or somehow lacking in enough velocity to kill this or that. I think the 308 is a fine cartridge, but I have a 30-06 and whether or not the additional velocity provided by the increase (modest as it is) in case capacity is of any importance to the critter beings struck by the bullet is besides the point. What I am getting at is that if the given load data does not match the expectations of the loader, or the standard for the cartridge, then what is to be done. I suspect that those of you with 308’s would be less than satisfied with 300 Savage velocities, and the 300 Savage shooters would likely expect velocity superior to the 30/40 Krag, and why would anyone bother reloading for the 30/40 if it only attained 30/30 velocities. Do you see were I am going here? I am not saying any one cartridge is better or worse than another. I simply want to get the most out of the 30-06 with the Nosler 180 Partition. And I attempt to do the same with all the cartridges that I load, but in nearly every other cartridge I load for, I have no trouble reaching the published velocity with the appropriate load data.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

  11. #11

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    I hear what you're saying, and hope I didn't sound like I was being critical. It's just that each rifle is an entity unto itself and likely to give different results than the individual rifle used to develop a reloading manual. If your individual rifle only gives 2650fps with a 180 at max, then it's living up to its potential just as you want. It could just as well give more than 2700fps. If it hits its own max while giving its best accuracy, it's a dandy rifle rifle no matter how it compares with the book. It could do so at 2650 and it could do so at 2750. The game simply isn't going to know the difference, and you never would either if you didn't shoot it over a chronograph.

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    It's going to do more on game than it will over a chronograph.

    That is true.

    Here are todays results.

    H414 for all loads.

    150 ballistic tip

    58gr----2773
    59------2818
    60-----2834,2934 too hot

    165 Barnes TSX

    54.5----2702
    55.5----2753
    56.5----2830, 2827 these look good

    180 Rem cor-lokt

    53.5----2510
    54.5----2607
    55.5----2630, 2627 These look good

    200 Barnes TSX

    50----2456
    51----2513
    52----2536, 2499 would guess this is hot because of no velocity gain over 51

    220 Nosler Partition

    50----2530 will try these again starting at 48 grains to 50 grains.
    51----2436 too hot
    52----2408, 2513 too hot
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  13. #13

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    I never tried 414 in an 06 before. Those look like credible results. What primer are you using? A friend reported lots of velocity variation with 414 and standard primers, but I don't remember the cartridge. Maybe his unhappiness is what kept me from giving it a closer look, but I always wondered if he wouldn't get a more consistent burn with mag primers.

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    federal 210M . They are non magnum match primers.

    Some of the 414 loads turned out to be my fastest loads for this rifle that I have tried so far. Being the 165 TSX, 200TSX and 220 partition.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

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    Thanks for the additional load information guys, especially RMiller, I sure appreciate it. After pay day I think I will buy a few more powders, perhaps some H414, H4350 and IMR4831 and work up a few more test loads. I did notice that I had an unopened pound of RL 22 in the back of the cabinet! Almost as good as finding $20 in your billfold that you didn’t know you had! That was finally enough to push me over the edge to actually make a list of the powders I have on hand and tape it to the front of my loading bench. I have 17 different powders and I guess I just cant keep an accurate mental list anymore……….not too surprising when you figure I really only use 3 or 4 of those powders on a regular basis and all the others get pushed back in the cabinet and rarely see the light of day.

    I will of course post the results.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Thumbs up H4350

    My standard load in 06

    H4350 @56.0
    180gr Nosler AB or Part
    Fed 210 Match Primer
    FC Nickle Case
    or 57.5 with 165 AB or Part

    Save the Reloader 22 for the 270 Win or 300 Win Mag.

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    Default results?

    Quote Originally Posted by alaska bush man View Post
    My standard load in 06

    H4350 @56.0
    180gr Nosler AB or Part
    Fed 210 Match Primer
    FC Nickle Case
    or 57.5 with 165 AB or Part

    Save the Reloader 22 for the 270 Win or 300 Win Mag.

    Bush man, out of curiousity what are you getting for velocity and accuracy on those two loads? Also how long of a barrel?

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    Default 30-06 Handloads...

    The statement that "your mileage may very" certainly applies here.

    There have beed several things pointed out that effect velocity such as barrel lenght and case brand, with a given charge weight. These things do have an effect. There are some much more subtle factors that cause velocity to vary. I have loaded the exact same load in several different rifles with the same barrel length (24") and got velocity variations as much as 200 fps. All of these were shot on the same day through the same chronogaph with the same environmental conditions.

    The loads: Lapua brass, Norma 180 Vulcan bullet, Fed 210M primers.
    H4350 powder 56.0 grains All rifles with 24" barrel.
    Rem. M700----Win. M70----Dakota M97----FN Mauser custom.
    Vel. 2649 fps -- 2712 fps ---- 2816 fps ---- 2773 fps

    PL-19 powder 57.0 grains.
    Vel. 2588 fps -- 2642 fps ---- 2802 fps ----2757 fps

    The Mauser is a Shilen barrel of #4 taper and is a sub .5 MOA rifle and is an Ackley Improved chamber, firing the round as a standard 30-06. It should have been slower but the barrel is so slick I get over 2900 fps when adding two grains more powder in the Ackley fire formed cases. THe M97 has a hand lapped Lothar Walther barrel and is also very smooth.

    Some bullets are also faster than others. Typically Noslers old Ballistic tips are the fastest with the partition as a close second. Usually the bullets with a copper shank are slower such as TBBC, NF and TX/TSX and the Swift Aframe with its bonded front end and mid way partition is also slower than some. I have found the Hornady and Seirra round nose bullets faster than the same company's spitzers of the same weight. I offer no expalnation for this, just an observation.

    Obviously bearing surface, barrel friction, and exact bore/groove diameter vs actual bullet diameter plays a factor. But smaller in diameter bullets are usually slower as they do not seal the bore as well and allow the pressure to go as high.

    It is part of the frustration of being an amateur ballistician and handloader.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
    It's going to do more on game than it will over a chronograph.

    That is true.

    Here are todays results.

    H414 for all loads.

    150 ballistic tip

    58gr----2773
    59------2818
    60-----2834,2934 too hot

    165 Barnes TSX

    54.5----2702
    55.5----2753
    56.5----2830, 2827 these look good

    180 Rem cor-lokt

    53.5----2510
    54.5----2607
    55.5----2630, 2627 These look good

    200 Barnes TSX

    50----2456
    51----2513
    52----2536, 2499 would guess this is hot because of no velocity gain over 51
    That's actually a very good guess. The pressure went up but velocity did not so time to back off one. That's good use of the chrony. You're at the knee of the curve.
    220 Nosler Partition

    50----2530 will try these again starting at 48 grains to 50 grains.
    51----2436 too hot
    52----2408, 2513 too hot

    Sorry to butt in here, just a comment.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    No problem.

    Thanks for the comment as I am sure there are some who will benefit from such info as I have before.

    I first learned that velocities may slow down or actually go down when the pressures are too high while looking through the reloading pages on the accurate reloading web site.

    They loaded many cartridges with loads over max and you could see where the velocities started to get inconsistant.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

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