Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Canoe the Kandik?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Stevensville, Western Montana
    Posts
    38

    Default Canoe the Kandik?

    Hi,

    I spend 99% of my time just reading posts, but I am thinking of a trip and have some questions.

    Two questions to start with:

    Is the Kandik river a canoe-able river starting from the Yukon?

    Is it legal to cross Native Corp land if you stay in the stream channel?

    Or do you need to get/buy permission ahead of time?

    I think the Kandik River crosses Doyon land, see blue line in picture:

    http://www.geographicdevelopment.com/kandik.jpg

    Thanks!
    Bitterroot

  2. #2

    Default

    As long as you stay below the ordinary high water mark you are safe crossing private land.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    3,246

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterroot_montana View Post
    Hi,





    Is the Kandik river a canoe-able river starting from the Yukon?



    Is it legal to cross Native Corp land if you stay in the stream channel




    http://www.geographicdevelopment.com/kandik.jpg

    Thanks!
    Bitterroot
    yes, for over 25 miles.

    If you stay below the high water mark you are on state lands.



    From what I have been told very good moose hunting. The Kandik in also knows for low water levels.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Stevensville, Western Montana
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    yes, for over 25 miles.
    My map shows about 16-17 miles of Doyon lands. Do I need to look for better maps?

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    3,246

    Default

    Like these maps. http://www.doyonlands.com/lands.html



    In case you don’t understand the term, high water mark.
    I was told the definition of “high water mark” or “historic high water mark” is the highest the river has every been.

    Example:
    In the spring many rivers flood into swamps and back water slews. Those areas are legal to hunt. Not private property.

    I am not advocating you trespass on private property, what I am saying is know your rights.

    There are also some private land owners around mile 25.

  6. #6
    Member danattherock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    5,608

    Default Area Biologist...

    In planning float trips in areas I was not familiar, I have found that contacting the area field office or area biologist a good move. In every instance, I have found them to be extremely knowledgable and willing to help. Seems that I went to the ADFG homepage, then went to "Sport Fishing", then choose the geographic area of the state. It was divided into about five if I am not mistaken. With just a little searching into that area, I found the phone number and email address of that area's field office and biologist. They are also the ones to talk to about game/fish in the areas. I got the below info from the ADFG website. Also, Google Earth is great if you have not tried it. Good detailed maps in some areas. It is a free download.

    Yukon Area Sport Fish Staff
    Area Management Biologist
    John Burr (907) 459-7220

    Area Office Address
    1300 College Road
    Fairbanks, AK 99701-1599
    (907) 459-7220

    Below is his email address. (the "mailto:" is part of the address)
    mailto:john.burr@alaska.gov


    http://www.nps.gov/yuch/photosmultim...d=108#e_115173
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

  7. #7
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    1,450

    Default Private lands

    good information on traveling thru prvate lands via the navigable waters.
    Make sure you have the Native corporations maps and explaination of the area you intend on going to. Take an extra copy along also to share with the person that may protest you being where you are.
    on one incident, I brought only the state map showing the Native land, information on what is ok, and what is not ok...
    The people that visited with me on an this occassion only wanted to see the map from their corporation. They told me that the map I had was wrong and the State written information was wrong also.. If I would have had the documents from the Native Corporation, and shared a copy with them, it would have been a much better visit. When I returned home, I got the maps from the Native Corporation and found that I was certainly legal.
    As it was,,,, I ended up moving on through the Native land without getting out of my raft except at island gravel bars, because I was worried about the actions of the land owners. ( me in a raft,.. they in power boats,,,brandishing a Ruger mini 14 )
    Even being cordial and submissive did not seem to work in this case. But for the most part it usually will.... I think these good folks feel that they have been abused by some people in the past, and are suspect at times of anyone else..
    One fellow told me that he was not happy that "I came into his place and the moose we took should have been for his people"..
    If you happen upon someone with an attitude in a remote place in Alaska, it can become uncomfortable and possibly dangerous. But so very very uncommon...
    In over 18 years of floating Alaska rivers, and traveling rivers thru many Private lands, only twice have I been stopped and questioned by the local talent.
    One time I was on a Lake shore walking the beach, There was a ton of trash that had blown up on the beach, Pop cans, Beer cans, plastic jugs, rope, styrofoam pieces, etc. I was picking the stuff up as I walked along, I took a plastic garbage bag from my pack and started filling the sack as I walked back to our camp. I filled the sack with lots of burnables, so I stopped and built a fire to be rid of it and so I could make more room in the sack...
    Here came a boat from accross the lake somewhere.. they saw the smoke and came to see who was on their land.
    when they pulled up along shore I waved,,, and they did not....
    They shut off the engine and a fellow yelled that I was trespassing, and why was I building a fire?
    I told him that I had not left the beach, below the high water, and was just burning trash I found along the way....
    He said that the trash was brought in by my kind, and I better not get off that beach until I was out of the boundary.
    At the same time as he was giving me these instructions, a small herd of cow and calf caribou entered the lake at a narrow point, and began swimming to the other shore only a few hundred yards away.
    The boat fired up and away they went. Two of the caribou cows were shot, and the rest of the caribou fled....
    These fellows went over and harvested the meat in short order and then left. I walked over to the place they had taken the animals and saw that they had removed the heads, and lower legs, gutted the animals and away they went, leaving behind a nice 3/4 Eastwing Axe. The owner of the Axe had melted with a hot knife or screw driver his name in the handle . I took the axe back to camp and held it for the guy. He never came back, so when I got back to the nearest village I asked how I could get the Axe returned, and was able to box it up and send it to his post office box.
    A few years later I ended up meeting this fellow in a different venue. I was introduced to him in a village by mutual friends. I remembered him from the incident, and after we exchanged hand shakes and greetings, I asked him if he remembered that time when he came accross the lake to give me the what for? I then asked if he ever got his Axe back?
    He got a blank stare, and was quiet for a moment,, then appologized with an explanation as to why he acted the way he did..... Then he tried to make a joke of it...
    He then told me that anytime I wanted to, I was welcome in his home and could be his guest.......
    His whole attitude was changed just because of who introduced me to him. And the fact that he got his lost axe back....
    Building trust is not always easy when others have taken advantage.
    We all have a responsibility to be respectful and extra careful when visiting these areas.
    I cannot see where an arguement would be of any benifit. But by having the proper documents with you, and no matter what.... being kind and considerate, you can make a difference, and maybe make some new life long friends.
    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Stevensville, Western Montana
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Max -- Great advice!

    When you are traveling through the private land, and you need to make camp, do you make camp on the banks or gravel bars? Any good place within the high water marks? Has anyone had issues making camp on private land within the high water marks?

    On the Kandik, with 16-17 miles to travel through Doyon lands, one would need to camp at least once.

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default 27 years on the Kandik

    I've lined the Kandik from the mouth to the Yukon border, likely have over a couple thousand miles lining it over the years, hauling grub and supplies in. Yes it is canoe-able, but in lower water you will have to get out and walk it down over many of the riffles. It's a pool-and-riffle stream, longer slow pools and short riffles connecting the pools, good grayling fishing throughout, good pike fishing on the lower river in the Preserve. Some dangerous riffles that lead right into cutbanks with sweepers that you may want to walk it down. Plenty of places to camp below the high water mark where it runs through Doyon lands, on various gravel bars. Fiberglass or "plastic" canoes do best for sliding over the rocks. I typically use 120' of lining rope, 3/8" poly. Mosquitoes can be horrific during June. In July river is usually at its lowest. August is our rainy season, though it's not been very rainy the past few years. ADFG bios won't really know much about this river...we have a new area bio now and I don't think she has ever been up here. Park Service staff for Yukon Charley would be a better bet for info. There is a public use cabin at mouth of Kandik that is great to stay at if no one else is there.

    If you're planning on lining up the river, drop me a pm and I can give more details. Maybe we can even hook up, always enjoy meeting new folks and showing them some of the country I have grown to love. Inre moose hunting, many won't believe this but our moose pop. has tanked. Will likely come back in ten years as the habitat is renewed...everything above the gorge burned in the 2004 and 2005 wildlifes on both sides of the river. I saw one moose last fall in over two weeks of hunting.
    Best,

  10. #10

    Default

    Was wondering when you were going to reply to this thread.

    I've done a lot of lining canoes too...but not that much. Sounds like your moose have dissappeared. They should come back with a vengeance when the new growth starts coming in.
    Wasilla Real Estate News
    www.valleymarket.com

  11. #11
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    5,767

    Default Excellent point, Max

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskacanoe View Post
    ...I cannot see where an argument would be of any benefit. But by having the proper documents with you, and no matter what.... being kind and considerate, you can make a difference, and maybe make some new life long friends.
    Max
    Max,

    The last sentence in your post really hit me. It's a lifestyle you're talking about; not just a way to access the country to kill a critter. If more of us adopted a similar attitude, there would be a lot less trouble.

    Thank you.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  12. #12
    Member danattherock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    5,608

    Default Agreed...

    I lived in Kotz and Nome for two years and never had any troubles when traveling about on my four wheeler or taking float trips. Just met a lot of genuine people. With genuineness also comes a certain level of accountability. Unfortunately, something many people lack today in our modern, me oriented, society. I have found that by being respectful to the people and the land that I am visiting, the Inupiaq have been more than tolerant. They even seem entertained to a degree with my admiration of their lands. Curious in a happy way you might say, wondering "why would you be flying 5,000 miles to fish here". Had that asked to me once in a flat voice tone in Kotz while waiting for the ceiling to lift so I could get flown up to the lower Noatak trib I was floating. I simply replied "to get away from everyone". That complete stranger and I agreed to this logic. He smiled, then told me what color lures he likes for dollies. A brief, yet meaningful, exchange of words. Remote Alaska is much like anywhere else you visit in that you usually get from people what you give. The motto I saw on many adolescents t-shirts in Kotz said "Respect all, fear none". That accurately encapsulates what I have experienced when dealing with locals up there. I hope that your experiences will be the same.
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •