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Thread: Do red's bite?

  1. #1
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    Default Do red's bite?

    Marcus and I are have a disagreement about reds. I say the bite, he says they dont. What do you guys think? Any flysfishers out there?

    How about catch and release? Read the thread by CapP (I think)about pinks.

  2. #2

    Default Reds Definately Bite Sometimes....

    Just finished a float trip in Southwest Alaska - caught all 5 species of pacific salmon :-) Mostly Kings, Chum, and Reds. The majority of reds were caught on flys & it's hard to say if they chose to bite or not, but also had non-fly fishermen/women tossing spinners and witnessed a number of reds chasing and biting Mepps! Most of the time when the reds chased and hit the spinners, there were very few fish just temporarily resting or actually moving upriver. A few times though, pods of reds at rest would have an anxious fish or two go on the chase and bite.

  3. #3

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    Well I don't know if they bite or not but I do know that when using fly fishing tackle 90% of the reds I hook are in the mouth. I have heard some say they do and some say they don't so it's all conjecture.

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    Angry Not what I said. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by SockeyOrange
    Marcus and I are have a disagreement about reds. I say the bite, he says they dont. What do you guys think? Any flysfishers out there?

    How about catch and release? Read the thread by CapP (I think)about pinks.
    SockeyOrange: I did NOT say reds don't bite. What I did say is that the method commonly and currently used to catch them is "flossing." To set the record straight, I know reds will bite at times, but I believe the great majority of them are caught by being flossed. Please don't misrepresent me. Thanks. . .

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    Member AK Trout's Avatar
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    I have had plenty of occasions where, when I have been fishin bows on the russian and many other streams where I have seen reds bite my flesh pattern. Matter of fact I watched one do just that this year...but I would say they are not very big biters...its more out of aggression I think...but who really knows except the fish.

    "I Envy Him And Him Only, That Catches More Fish Than I Do" Izaac Walton 1653
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  6. #6
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Default Yup they do...

    I fish the Russian pretty hard...have also fished southwest Ak... Slap on a shrimp pattern (yes in freshwater) and let the fun begin....They'll tackle that fly time after time.....also had a good amount off success with different streamers.....

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    I had 2 people tell me, one a biologist and one an experienced guide, that ALL salmon on their way to spawn bite out of aggression rather than the need to eat. It doesn't matter what color, what type or what time you put it in front of them...if it doesn't piss em off, they wont take it.

    Please tell me what is right if what I "was told" is incorrect.

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    Smile here is my take which is not worth much

    Salmon have a very small and I suspect simple brain. Therefore, when a stimuli turns on a portion of the brain they react. So if something causes the feeding response they will do it out of reaction not because they are needing or wanting food and if aggression to defend territory is the stimuli they will respond to that. Therefore, they bite. However, Marcus is correct, Flossing for reds is a great way to catch them in the mainstem Kenai and they do not have to react at all just swim upstream

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    Default

    I was wondering when we would hear from you on this. I was wondering what your degree is in? Mine is in math, so I guess we think somewhat a like if yours is in biology? Do you read journals to keep current or do you work in the field at this time?

  10. #10
    Member akpredator's Avatar
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    Default one way to tell

    Quote Originally Posted by KirovPDR
    I had 2 people tell me, one a biologist and one an experienced guide, that ALL salmon on their way to spawn bite out of aggression rather than the need to eat. It doesn't matter what color, what type or what time you put it in front of them...if it doesn't piss em off, they wont take it.

    Please tell me what is right if what I "was told" is incorrect.
    I too belive that they only bite a fly out of aggression or protecting there spawning ground, wich is not that often. One way i can tell is when I land my fish , the hook ( 99%of the time) is set on the outside of the mouth. I dont think i have ever had one swallow the hook like fish do when they are trying to eat something. Next time you catch one take a look at where your hook is set , i bet it will be hooked on the outside of the jaw.

    good luck,
    AKpredator
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  11. #11

    Default Reds bite!

    OK I'll chime in on this one. I agree with Marcus' assessment that the majority of reds are caught by "flossing". I believe that this is particularly true when the density of reds is very high. Nevertheless, last year, in August, while fishing silvers, I had a red practically swallow a vibrex and even had 2 seperate reds take the "glow and goo" (that is the eggs and spin-n-glow).

    It is very clear biologically that the salmon do not digest when they enter fresh water. The aggression theory is very sound in regards to the vibrex, however I'm not so sure about the eggs. I suppose that it is possible that the fish are relying on the feeding instinct triggered by the scent or the attractor.

    Bottom line: Reds bite, but not always; some are victims of circumstance.

    BTW, 2 reds on Kwikfish earlier this year.

  12. #12

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    Reds are the least aggrissive fish out of all pacific salmon. I really do not have any proof to back that up except my fishing experiences. What it boils down to is red salmon just plain do not attack lures like silvers, kings, chums, or pinks. Do they bite? I am sure they do everyone once in awhile, but I agree with Marcus, most reds are caught by flossing.

    Its really easy to say a red bites when hundreds of thousands of reds pass through a single watershed in one season. Eventually your going to get lucky and hook a few in the mouth, the Kenai or Russian would be a great example. Try fishing a creek or river that has a marginal red count, say a couple thousand. You will almost never catch a red without flossing. Atleast that is what happens in my experience.

  13. #13
    Member AKBighorn's Avatar
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    Default Imho

    I have a question to ask of all of you. When was the last time that you saw a red caught on eggs, herring or any other bait in fresh water? I can't say that I have ever seen it happen, never! As with most animals, this includes fish, if you irritate it enough it will strike. As with the other salmon species they strike at a variety of bait or lures. In general you will have greater success catching most salmon with bait, although there are many variables that play into this. As for a red actually biting at your lure for what ever reason, the chances are extremely slim. As someone else stated previously, look at where your fish is hooked, 99.9% of the time you will see that if you have legally hooked a red, the hook will have entered the fish on the outside of the mouth. If you pay attention to this you will also see that depending on which side of the river you fish from dictates which side of the mouth the fish is hooked. Keep in mind the fish is almost always looking upstream not downstream. Another note to add is that you will almost never see a red that has inhaled any kind of lure/fly. Any fish that strikes at a lure/fly will consume it as if it were really food or it would crush it in its mouth as to destroy it as kings and silvers do with eggs.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Over the years I've caught a few reds on eggs while king fishing.

    I've also been shown a technique of making a very simple red jig that's very effective at catching reds. I've used them in slack pools where the fish are stacked up. You can definitely entice them to move and bite.

    Even at the Russian, where I tend to floss them, if I change colors and patterns often I'll have more success, particularly when the fish get fewer and the fishing gets tougher.

  15. #15

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    AkBighorn, from what I have been told and from what I have seen, reds do not feed on herring or other bait fish, they feed on plankton and small krill like shrimp. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

  16. #16

    Default agressive reds

    We were fishing for Dollies just near the mouth of a creek flowing into Becherof Lake. The creek was full of reds and just for fun I tied on a huge red plug that I found in my takle box. I don't know where I got that plug and had never used it before... or since.

    I threw it across the creek and it wobbled side to side just under the surface. Immediately from at least 20 feet down the creek a huge male red with hooked jaws and a big hump made a large V in the water. He hit the plug going full speed and kept going. I got him in after a big fight and then did it a couple more times before going back to dollie fishing. Those ones were obviously biting out of aggression.

  17. #17
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    Default

    Thanks for all the replies, I too have seen reds bite. Yes "floosing" is the most common way to catch them, just not the only way. To Marcus, if I misrepresented you, I'm sorry. I guess it goes to show how easily a post can be mis-interpreted, it sounded to me like in your opinion there is no way to catch reds without snagging.

  18. #18

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    Depends on who's doing the fishing, time of year, where you are and how many people are around. If they're colored up for spawning, they're territorial as all getout and will hit almost anything. If they're fleeing for their lives from even a dozen anglers trying to floss them you can pretty much forget voluntary strikes. Get on a remote river and fish right, and they'll come to the hook. Wanna know if they're striking or flossing? Take the weight off your leader and put away your sink tip line. Use a floating line and no weight.

    When they're relaxed in shallow water with no significant angling pressure, they'll even come up to waked dry fly just like summer steelhead. No flossing there! Try "greased line" techniques also used for summer steelhead, and they'll rise up for a wet fly swinging just under the surface. That's all in water less than 3' deep and preferably slick.

    When the crowd collects, go ahead and floss, whatever it's called and whatever you think you are doing. It's harder and harder (and more expensive) to find them without a herd of fishermen, so flossing is pretty much standard. If everyone else is doing it, lump it or leave it.

  19. #19
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    Default My take...

    Just this morining, I hooked and landed three reds (sockeyes) at Jim Creek. All were hooked inside the mouth, two on red/silver Flash flies, one on a pink #3 vibrax. I was fishing for silvers, not really expecting the reds. The flies were presented by a quarter upstream cast then dead drift and swung straight downstream. The lure was being cast a quarter downstream, then retrieved. I note this, because while so 'flossing' was possible on one hookup (about straight out on the fly), it was very unlikely on the other two hookups (I was retrieving toward me upstream.) All three fish were chrome bright and hard to distinguish from small silvers, except for the lack of spots. Later, the fish turned an olivish color, and the meat was quite darker than the silvers. This wasn't the first time I've had reds 'bite'. I'm not sure what other factors/conditions dictate if reds will bite at a certain time, but they definitely do.

    ==fangler
    Jim Creek - Home of the burning car hook cast!

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