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Thread: New Location Fbnks A/C

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    Default New Location Fbnks A/C

    VENUE CHANGE for the Fairbanks AC meeting on February 13, 2008
    There was concern that the other choice was not large enough.

    The new, and final, meeting place is Pioneer Park at the theater in the Civic Center.

    7 PM, Thats 1900hrs for you military and us ex-military types.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
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    Thanks for the update.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Greybeard,
    Give us an update on your meeting please!

    Vern

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    Default what I saw

    I think the only game in the Fairbanks area must be Moose. Cause that is all they talked about. Oh and some Pike...... I left at 10:30.
    Tim

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    I left just before you then. I was hoping to hear them talk more about prop 85 i think was and they briefly mentioned something else about sheep but I don't know what it was about. I got tired of **ac member** going around the same mountain. This was the first one of these meeting I've really attended and all I could think of was what is that guy doing up there. He was asking questions that made no sense and making statements that had no value as far as I could tell and he seemed like he just didn't know much. Just a waste of time. And then the new "expert" up there who seemed more concerned about him and his buddies wanting to be able to shoot 36inch bulls cuz that was all they saw while moose hunting last year. I don't know, I guess it takes all kinds. I went to get educated and see what's up with this whole process and I'm learning.

    Then there were the group of grayhaired guys who all spoke against allowing more access to the wood river controlled use area and all cited their "environmental" concerns (ya right) and that it would end up like the rex trail. Well, I be willing to bet these guys have their own interests in mind. Ya think?! Then the guy reads a letter from the Montanans (which I am/was one) who won't come back here if they change anything. Now, I'm not saying we should open the access, I need to read the proposal and get more up to speed on the issue. But aren't we supposed to manage our resources for Alaskans, and for what's best for wildlife, and in the case of IM area aren't they managing for maximum harvest for us? Not for NR's who want to have Alaska be a game park for their fantasy hunting experiences. Anyway, it's like a few want to keep it (or even Alaska) locked up for their own private hunting grounds. You got these guys with cubs who all fly in and hunt and they don't want anyone else getting in there. That's the bottom line. That's a pretty sweet deal if you own cub, know how to fly it and have the money. Won't be long that unless you have a plane you won't be able to get anywhere. How about if it's non-motorized then make it non-motorized? That includes planes. Then at the break the one other new members who is now the vice president was huddled up with all of them and it was pretty obvious to me that these guys are all in this whole AC thing together. I got the impression that they now one of "their" boys on the board. I wouldn't doubt that these guys have places out there and want to keep guys out of "their" hunting grounds.

    Yup, I learned a few things alright...

    That's my take on it. I'll keep going and watching and listening.
    Last edited by Snyd; 03-08-2008 at 18:20.
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    Sorry I have not had the time to get back with this forum lately. Death in the wife's family, trips to Anchorage for son's Hockey team, friends house had burst pipes. Life has just been too hectic lately. Anyway

    There is several proposals to open the Wood River Controlled Use area. The proposal I submitted on the Wood River Controlled use area is to open the area during Moose season only. I recommended that it stay closed during August to keep the Sheep hunters happy. The sheep hunters have been joining the guides to keep this area closed for the last eight years I have been trying to get it opened.

    *names of individuals removed

    Unfortunately again I feel it is a lost cause to try and get it opened this year since the reason I used (the cow hunt) has been shut down.

    The guy arguing about all he saw was 36" Moose, is also a new member put on to the A/C by the special interest group to stop any new hunting along the Salsa River. This group has plans to take over the A/C. Sampson has said he will bring this group back every year till he has replaced every member on the A/C. And already the A/C is bowing to meet their demands. I'm beginning to feel like a lone wolf out there. I am also the last one voted onto the A/C before they started this take over, and will be the last one voted off.

    Thinking about driving my Samurai over to the Wood River this September just for the fun of it. It's legal as long as I am not hunting, transporting hunters, game parts, or hunting equipment.
    Last edited by Brian M; 03-08-2008 at 16:28.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
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    Sorry to hear about the loss in your family Roggie. We just lost my wifes Mom here in Fairbanks in November. I know what it's like.

    ****** had quite an operation up in that country. Looks like a few others have it now. Well, like i mentioned, I went to learn a few things and am learning quite a bit. Not too happy about some of it....
    Last edited by Snyd; 03-10-2008 at 07:54.
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Guys, it is entirely possible to discuss these issues without making accusations of greed/etc. against individuals. Please leave personal names and issues out of this.

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    Ok, I removed the name of an AC member I had referred too in my above post. But I tell you what Brain, it was just amazing to watch what was going on there. There are definitely personal agendas driving people there and it appears that in a lot of ways they really don't care about the biology, etc. I hope every hunter in the Fairbanks area reads this and it gets their attention and they start showing up at these meetings to see what's going on.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Understood, Perry. Unfortunately, when we start getting into individual folks' agendas, we start getting into the realm of something that's tough to verify.

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    Brian: It's easy to verify, come to the meetings. Or ask the older members of the A/C. It's very obvious.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

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    Default inre mentioning names, making it personal

    Just got home yesterday, met many of the Fbks AC members at the BOG meeting. I was really disheartened to see people mentioned by name here in this thread, personal agendas etc. Everyone has their own perception about what is going on and why, as far as hunter crowding, access abuse, and certain BOG proposals. But it is unfair and just plain wrong to drag people's names through the proverbial mud here on this forum because some are unhappy with the way certain proposals turn out or perceive other reasons why they are even on the docket.

    I would hope the mods would even remove more of the names mentioned here on this thread about the parents of certain people. I don't consider being on an advisory committee such a public position that it allows members of this forum to denounce and slander those AC members by name. Roggie, far as I know, you're the only one posting here by name from the Fbks AC. I enjoyed meeting you at the BOG meeting and certainly respect your views (and you) even though we may disagree. In the past I had advised caution on what you said here and that it could come back to the Fbks AC in general, or you. I am advising that now again.

    And Perry, there is more to it really and we can go into that privately. FYI, AK Backcountry Hunters strongly opposed the two proposals to open the Wood River CUA to ATV/ORV access for hunting, and we will continue to oppose that in future. It has been a CUA for a very long time and the Board of Game recognizes that history and the negative impacts of allowing ATVs/ORVs in there for hunting. So while you scoff here at the "environmental impacts," and claim that the real reason people don't want the WRCUA opened to ATV/ORV access is entirely personal (ie "it's my area and I don't want others competing with me"), you are closing your mind to the real problems associated with ATV/ORV abuse and also that orgs like the one I co-chair, and many other ACs and even the Board of Game, feel strongly that those environmental impacts are real, that they are indeed negative, and that we need to curb them.

    Roggie, you are right that the rules only apply to using an ATV/ORV for hunting purposes, but posting here that you may just drive your Samurai out there in the WRCUA during hunting season but not use it for hunting is really you saying "I'll show you!" In the end all that will do is shed a negative light on the ATV/ORV community and possibly force DNR to get involved. If the WRCUA was ever opened up, surely we'd see a ton of abuse problems as many if not most folks wouldn't stay on the hardened areas but drive through the bogs and wetlands and tundra and spiderweb out etc.

    One last thing: claiming that certain personal opinions can be "verified" by going to the meetings is disingenuous. Someone could claim that any AC member has a personal agenda of some sort based on how they vote on proposals. Some could say the same about BOG members. Our perception of the opinions of others is only our perception and it is not shared by everyone else. Some yes, but not everyone. Making it personal is wrong. It isn't conducive to moving forward either in ways that are productive. Many people read this forum but never post. Word gets around. Emails fly; things are copied and pasted, feelings hurt, and hey, if anyone has anything to say about a certain AC member, then have the integrity to say it to their face in private if you feel so strongly about it. Otherwise, please keep it off here.
    Sincerely,

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    Bushrat: I drive my Samurai back there several times a year. I have friends that mine the area. I'm getting ready to drive my pick-up in there tomorrow. The area is laced with roads and trails. Opening it to hunting will do no damage to the area. especially if the board was to take my recommendation and limit it to under 1500 lbs. There is mining trails (Made from crushed rock, or gravel) up most of the valleys, and once you get to the top you are on rock or gravel. So it is not the pristine area people think it is. It is just an area where the guides have little compatition from reguler Alaskans, because they have got us locked out. The highest population of Moose in the state, and it's off limits to all but people with planes, or horses, during the general hunting season.. There is no biological reason to have a GMU there. It was created by guides for guides.

    Enjoyed talking with you at the Board meeting. And as you said we can agree to disagree on some issues.

    As for mentioning names, the names I mentioned are all part of public record. I don't see anything wrong with mentioning names and their stand on issues. If a person don't want their name mentioned, they should not get up in a public forum and state their views. I stand behind my views, and I don't care if someone uses my name just as long as they quote me correctly. Like the old saying goes, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. I'm the type of person that if someone comes into a public forum and makes a statement before me and the rest of the public, I will spread that word. I am not the only one out there that will do that either. And I don't care about being politically correct either. I say it like I see it.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

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    Default Roggie...one last followup

    Roggie,

    Yeah, we discussed the mining roads and harder areas at higher elevations when we spoke. And like I said then, not all hunters are gonna stay on those harder trails and in those higher elevations, regardless if they think there are more moose there. They are going to spread out everywhere if the WRCUA is opened to ATV access and they would damage habitat. That is my view, the view of many others, and the view of the Board of Game. You are correct in that it isn't a biological issue. But the Board has stated now and in the past that they are willing to restrict access in certain areas in order to create walk-in only areas or areas in which only planes are allowed, in order to reduce user-group conflicts and habitat damage and in an attempt to satisfy all parties. They have also stated that they are not going to close off evermore areas to ATV or airboat access, but at the same time they are also saying that perhaps it is a DNR land management issue and some limits or restrictions may need to be imposed.

    I want to hit on the mentioning of names one last time. Certainly you make some valid points that if anyone is willing to go publicly on the record that it is okay to quote what they said. But that isn't what was done here. You weren't quoting what they said; rather you were giving your perception of the reasons for their opinions. That is much different. I would say the same if someone mentioned your name and then claimed to know why you said what you did. To claim that so-and-so (by name) is only trying to keep others out of an area based on their public comments is wrong and it is unacceptable in my opinion. You even alluded the same yourself with these words:
    "I don't care if someone uses my name just as long as they quote me correctly."

    Just to be on the up and up, I asked the mods to remove the names of individuals from your posts. You were not at all quoting them; you were giving your perception of their rationale for wanting to keep the WRCUA closed to atvs/orvs during august and september. I hope you can truly see this and recognize that what you said above that I quoted and what you did previously doesn't jibe. I mean this with all due respect, Roggie.
    Sincerely,

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    People that make a living off public lands and try to restrict the public from using what belongs to all of us......Well.. I just have one thing to say...What comes around goes around..and maybe sooner than later
    Greed destroys the soul....if you have one!

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    I will keep bringing up the WRCUA every Board Meeting, just like I have for the last six years.

    And we will continue to see mostly guides trying to keep it closed. This year with the exception of two people, the testamony to keep it closed was from guides or people that work for guides. All the rest (Majority) wanted it open. I think it rediculious that I can't drive in there during August or September, for hunting. But I can drive in to visit friends who live there, during those months. Eventually public sentiment will reach a point to where the Game Board will have to listen and open the area. At least that is my view. Why keep this area for a select few.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

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    Bushrat: As for the mining roads and people not staying on them, as we discussed last weekend. Mark, You are right, they don't. What you don't seem to realize is that people are currently hunting Moose there with ATVs. Yes, inside the WRCUA. The restriction is only in place when the guides have their clients in there. October 1st the cow hunters drive right in. And they stay in there till Febuary. And October 1st things are not frozen just like in September.

    Anyway, you and everyone else have a good week. I'm out of here. Going to run the Rex, and spend the rest of the week in the WRCUA. Will be seeing Don Keils, at Gold King, and anyone else that is in there. Just knocking around looking for what ever pops up. Doubt we'll see any bears, but we will be ready if any are out sunning themselves. Hope to see some wolves.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

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    I see your point Mark but, I don't think I made myself clear in my original post. I was referring more to a group of individuals who were at the meeting. Citizens. They were all seated together, huddled up, all had the same maps, paperwork etc. It was obvious that they showed up in a group and they all made the same public comments to the AC board. Practically verbatim. This was an organized effort and it happend to be on the issue of access. Then, at the break one of the AC members made a bee line to them and they all continued on in their little huddle. It really was very obvious and I must say, somewhat disheartening. It wasn't like 5 separate individuals commented on the same issue by coincidence. And, I actually do hope it comes back around to the AC. The public needs to know what is going on here. One thing I have been seeing happening here over the past few months is that folks who have a special interest in an area are trying to hijack the AC board and the BOG/F&G system we have in place and use it to protect their own interests.

    I really am not closing my mind to the access issue. I don't know enough about all the details to form an opinion one way or another. My point really has nothing to do with the specific proposal. It's what I see as a manipulation of the system for personal gain by some citizens who have a buddie ont the AC board. It just so happens that in this case it's the access issue. You on the other hand do not have a special agenda in that neck of the woods. I think you are genuinely concerned with the habitat, possible ORV abuse, etc. That's fine. But these guys... well. You had to have been there.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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