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Thread: re: Chena Ridge & Becker Ridge wolves

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    Default re: Chena Ridge & Becker Ridge wolves

    Permission to forward this was received:

    There has been little activity concerning wolf/human conflicts in the CHSR area over the last month. On December 16th, a wolf (that was in the process of attempting to kill a resident's dog) was shot and not recovered. On January 26th, a wolf that had been hanging around some residental homes near Grange Hall Road was trapped.

    On another note, there have been wolf sightings and wolf track
    sightings along Chena Ridge, near Becker Ridge Road. On the evening of January 30, a dog was attacked by a wolf, and escaped. The attack occured just outside of the dog owners view in the trees. The attack was silent, and the dog was covered in saliva with lacerations on its neck, chest, and the small of its back. The dog took several days to recover, but will likely survive it wounds.

    About February 2nd, another dog off Becker Ridge Road was acting strange and ran after something at the edge of its yard and never returned. The owner tracked the dog and found an abundance of wolf tracks and indications of activity in the undeveloped area uphill from his home. The dog owner believes that his dog was killed by the wolf. There are reports of other missing dogs in the area, but I have not confirmed them yet. Reports indicate that the wolf along Chena Ridge has been there for about 6 weeks.

    Tom Seaton
    Wildlife Biologist
    AK Dept of Fish and Game

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    Member lab man's Avatar
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    It's interesting that biologists believe the wolf has been up there about 6 weeks, but this is the first time I've seen any info about it. If Fish and Game had told the public about the wolf activity 6 weeks ago, there is a good possibility that my buddies lab would still be around. He went missing ten days ago, and only on last saturday did we discover that dogs were being attacked less than a mile from my friends house.

    I find it very frustrating that this info was not immediately released, and I can't help but wonder why it was kept a secret.

  3. #3

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    LAB MAN it has been in the daily news miner, on the radio about the wolves being in that area for well over two months know so I don’t know why you are saying it has been kept a secret......
    I am not trying to start any conflicts but it was in the paper like five times on different occasions. Sorry to hear about your buddies lab I mean I have two dogs myself but when it comes down to it, if dog owners don’t want there dog attacked by wolves then they should build a fenced in area for the dog’s or watch there dogs when they let them out. I am not a tree huger, I love hunting and yes I do hunt wolfs but it’s the owners own fault the dogs are being attacked and killed. When you stake your dog outside and let him stay out there for a while that is like ringing the diner bell for them and then the dog cant even defend themselves or ever run away. So am I sad that owners are have there dogs killed and eat YES but like I said before it is there own fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stello1308 View Post
    LAB MAN it has been in the daily news miner, on the radio about the wolves being in that area for well over two months know so I don’t know why you are saying it has been kept a secret......
    I am not trying to start any conflicts but it was in the paper like five times on different occasions. Sorry to hear about your buddies lab I mean I have two dogs myself but when it comes down to it, if dog owners don’t want there dog attacked by wolves then they should build a fenced in area for the dog’s or watch there dogs when they let them out. I am not a tree huger, I love hunting and yes I do hunt wolfs but it’s the owners own fault the dogs are being attacked and killed. When you stake your dog outside and let him stay out there for a while that is like ringing the diner bell for them and then the dog cant even defend themselves or ever run away. So am I sad that owners are have there dogs killed and eat YES but like I said before it is there own fault.
    If fish and game has been aware of a wolf on chena ridge for 6 weeks, how have people been talking about it for well over 2 months?

    You don't have any clue about what my friends do with their dogs, so don't make judgments on what they should and shouldn't do. The lab was well trained, they don't just let him wander whenever he feels like it. They were outside with the dog, and he just got it in his head to run off.

    It's interesting, I shared your exact point of view until about 4 days ago. Some things aren't just black and white. The people had no idea there was wolf around when they let their well trained lab out in the morning like they do every day. If they had known dogs were disappearing they would have kept their's on a leash, or at least have watched him much closer.

    My point is that it's not just irresponsible dog owner losing animals here, and if Fish and Game had made a public announcement 6 weeks ago, there would have been at least one dog who wouldn't have died. Think about if it was one of your dogs. Here you are, a conscientious dog owner out on a walk with your dogs, when all of a sudden your dog bounds off through the snow and never comes back. You wonder for 7 days about what happened to it. Then you hear that fish and game has known for 6 weeks that a wolf has been attacking dogs within a mile of your house, but hasn't let anyone know about it. Then you have people saying "Oh man I'm really sorry for your loss, but hey, it is your fault." How were you supposed to know that there was a wolf killing dogs less than a mile from your house?! "Well, if you really didn't want your dog killed (even though you couldn't have known about the danger), you'd never let him outside a ten foot high chain link fence, or off a leash." Hmmm, sounds like a great life for a dog.

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    Is this the same area you are talking about?

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=23551

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=21904

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=21830

    If so, these were discussed at length back in Nov & Dec and appeared in several news articles.
    Winter is Coming...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Is this the same area you are talking about?

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=23551

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=21904

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=21830

    If so, these were discussed at length back in Nov & Dec and appeared in several news articles.
    No this is not the area. Chena Ridge is what I'm talking about. Chena Ridge is on the South West side of town, which is in the complete opposite direction from the Chena flood project, Chena Hot Springs Rd, and North Pole where the other wolf activity has taken place. The wolf issue on Chena Ridge has not been discussed, and apparently has only been known to Fish and Game for 6 weeks, as was stated in the original post/e-mail.

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    OK, not real familiar with the Fairbanks area, but recalled "Chena" from those prior discussions so I was wondering if it was the same.

    Hard to keep track of all the different wolf attack zones, there are so many of them now...
    Winter is Coming...

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    Default Labman is right

    It is quite a stretch to "assume" that the Chena Hot Springs Road and North Pole (Chena flood Control) areas (far east side of Ft Waintwright), and the Chena Ridge area (far west side of Fairbanks), might possibly hold the same wolves.
    Chena Hot Springs and the associated areas are up to 30 odd miles from where the dogs have been hit on Chena Ridge. If the wolves on CHSR were finding good food, and not being hassled, chased, or scared, there is no reason to expect them to leave their food source to head to Chena Ridge. The area those wolves were traveling was over 15 miles, and again, they had a fairly consistent food source. Yes, reports indicate one of the CHSR wolves was trappped and another shot but not recovered, but still, that does not credibly account for a wolf from that pack showing up on Chena Ridge.
    The government knew that the Chena Ridge wolf started working on dogs 6 weeks ago. As I recall, we are the government, or, at least, the government employees work for us. Why did we not hear about this current threat?
    At least one of the dogs attacked was with people that it turns out I know. They were outside when it happened. Both the husband and wife are more than capable hunters and experienced outdoors people. If they had known of the possibility of a local wolf the dog would likely never have been attacked.
    Labman is right here. People, based on what Tom Seaton from Fish and Game wrote, should be upset that information was not forwarded to the public. This has nothing at all to do with people letting dogs run loose and everything to do with lack of communication from Fish and Game.

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    I saw a single black wolf in the Chena flood project two days before the dog was grabbed, that the owner chased and got back. After that incident that single wolf disappeared. Have not seen it since. It would not be hard to believe that same wolf could have worked it's way down the Tanana to the Chena Ridge area. I do see wolf tracks out on the Tanana regulerly.

    We have to remember we live on an island in the middle of a sea of wildlife. We have wolves and bears living in our back yards, along with moose and other things that will stomp or eat a dog, kid, or even you. You want to keep your dog safe, don't send it out to do it's business alone, no matter where you live in the area. When my son was riding the school bus to school I went with him to the bus stop every morning. Several times moose, and occasionally a bear came by while we were waiting for his bus. One morning he was playing with a rabbit distress call while we waited. We had a Lynx come by and check us out that morning. But the most common animal was loose dogs. Yes lots of wolf bait running around in the Newby road area.
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  10. #10

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    Hey Graybeard that is what I was trying to state I mean we live in ALASKA, you know the last frontier. I mean we have moose right down town Fairbanks, 15 miles to a wolf is not a lot of distance to cover. That would be less than a day jaunt for them. The other things we have to look at are they have been here a lot longer then us humans have. But Sorry for everyone’s lost.

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    Default re: clarification - ADF&G's timeline

    Just need to clarify something after some correspondence. ADF&G's biologist did not know about these incidents until the afternoon of February 4th, when he got the calls. After investigation & evaluation, he came to the conclusion that the wolf/wolves have been in the area for approximately 6 weeks. It was posted to the wolf reports yahoo group & also the wolf report hotline right away. So, ADF&G didn't just sit on this.

    Karen

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    Default Not Disneyland

    "Reports indicate that the wolf ... has been there about 6 weeks" does not necessarily mean that Fish and Game has been receiving reports about them for 6 weeks. I imagine that if they had been receiving multiple reports with dogs killed, humans threatened, etc, they may have issued a news release about that. I've been hearing about a wolf or wolves being seen out there through the grapevine for almost 2 months now and I don't even live out there.

    Another point, if ADF&G made a big issue about every wolf or bear sighting near Fairbanks or any other developed area, panic would eventually set in with those folks that feel like the state or someone else must always be able to guarantee their personal safety. You live in wolf and bear country, accept that and live accordingly, or don't and always wonder what happened to Fifi.

    I used to live out in that general area and the Tanana River is only a short distance away. Several wolves live across the river and make infrequent forays to the north side of the river. Usually they seemed to avoid trouble and humans but in a tough year its not inconceivable that they would either seek out food sources from humans or have a few random encounters resulting in a dog or so being killed.
    Enough said, have a nice day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3CBRS View Post
    Just need to clarify something after some correspondence. ADF&G's biologist did not know about these incidents until the afternoon of February 4th, when he got the calls. After investigation & evaluation, he came to the conclusion that the wolf/wolves have been in the area for approximately 6 weeks. It was posted to the wolf reports yahoo group & also the wolf report hotline right away. So, ADF&G didn't just sit on this.

    Karen

    Ok this is something very different than what I was originally thinking. If F&G didn't know until the 4th, then there's no way they could have warned anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rilasp12 View Post
    I've been hearing about a wolf or wolves being seen out there through the grapevine for almost 2 months now and I don't even live out there.

    Another point, if ADF&G made a big issue about every wolf or bear sighting near Fairbanks or any other developed area, panic would eventually set in with those folks that feel like the state or someone else must always be able to guarantee their personal safety. You live in wolf and bear country, accept that and live accordingly, or don't and always wonder what happened to Fifi.
    No one has been talking about the wolf on CHENA RIDGE for two months. We are NOT discussing CHENA HOT SPRINGS, CHENA FLOOD PLAINS, or NORTH POLE. CHENA RIDGE is on the complete opposite side of town from these other wolf sightings.

    Why does F&G need to make a big deal about every wolf sighting? A simple mention in the news, or the paper would be enough to get the info out there. I highly doubt "panic" would set in. Think about what would happen if F&G knew about a wolf or bear in the area, didn't tell anyone because they didn't want to make people panic, and a child was killed. Fish and Game would be hung out to dry so quick it wouldn't even be funny. It would be extremely hard to make an argument saying that F&G acted in the best interest of Fairbanks residents by not making them aware of the danger.

    The people having their dogs killed barely live out of town. I happen to know two people who had their dogs attacked in the last two weeks, and they are more experienced hunters than most of the folks on this forum. They didn't think for a second about the possibilty of a wolf in the area, so some cliche about Alaska not being Disneyland, and about accepting the fact that we live in bear and wolf country doesn't hold a lot of water with me. Gang violence is a part of living in most major cities. Should people just "accept" the fact that because they chose to live in a large city, they have to put up with the drive by shootings and drugs?

    Also, a well trained black lab in capable hands is hardly the average persons "fifi."

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    LAB MAN well just to clarify on what you are saying, If people live in the gang infested areas of the cities then guess what either A they can move or B yes they do live with the fact that the gangs in there area try to run the streets. But on another note what the heck do gangs have to do with wild animals??? I mean let’s put it this way most people lived in neighborhoods that gangs infested, not the opposite. Also if these dogs are so well trained then how come the owners did not call the dog off when they started to run into the wood, I mean I know my police dog is really well trained and my puppy is somewhat trained and when I am out hunting with them and we see a moose or any animal at that they do try to run after it but I yell at them and say “no” and then to heel they do it. On other hands obviously these dogs are not as well trained as you are trying to make them out to be.

    Also let me quote something that this lady said to the paper “she let Jake out of her car when she turned onto North Becker Ridge Road to run the last mile to the house, a routine practice.” Ok so these people are making there dogs run a mile down the road, and introducing them to the food chain. I know if I lived on a wooded road and I know there are bears, wolfs or even moose around the house or even think they are then I would not let them run themselves. I mean maybe they should run with the dog!!! Or walk the dog maybe!!! You can try to argue this all day long but anyone that lives here in Alaska knows we live with the animals not the animals live with us. We are all in there territory… Also so when moose come into our yards and eat our grass should Fish and game put out that too I mean moose are just as dangerous they are very capable of killing a human.

  17. #17

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    O yah also to run from Chena flood planes to Chena ridge would be nothing to wolfs. Look at the mushers this little 15 mile jaunt down the river would be nothing to a wolf or wolf pack...

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    Default You missed the point stello and others

    The original concern was that the wording from F&G indicated that they knew about the issue weeks ahead of time. That came from the wording in Tom Seaton's letter. Labman is not responsible for how that letter was worded. His concern based on that letter was well said. Recognize also that he realized the confusion in his 13:09 post. In addition, it appears you guys aren't reading the whole letter or thread. Take a moment to read it through before you decide to pull the "you are now in Alaska" card.
    Do not insult Labman about where we live. Your drivel is noxious. I grew up in FAI before there was a fence on Airport Way, before there was Alaskaland, and when bears used to come in the city in the spring to hang out around the old Sewage treatment plant. Any idea where that is? It was about 140 yards from my house.
    Wolves travel, but normally away from a consistent food source? Associating the wolf pack to the east with the wolf on the ridge is only conjecture on your part, nothing more. Is it possible? Yes. Probable? Your guess is as good or bad as anybody's.
    Nobody asked F&G to make a big deal out of anything. That is yours and Rilsap's hyperbole to develop a less than credible argument apparently because you weren't willing to take the time to read what has been said and simply want to start an argument.
    In closing, Labman has never said once that people are not responsible for their dogs, nor was his commentary meant to insinuate that. He is a citizen that was concerned due to the way the information was worded by F&G.
    To those of you that took the time to forward links and listen to an explanation, thank you for your extra effort to communicate in a positive manner.

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    Member lab man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stello1308 View Post
    LAB MAN well just to clarify on what you are saying, If people live in the gang infested areas of the cities then guess what either A they can move or B yes they do live with the fact that the gangs in there area try to run the streets. Also if these dogs are so well trained then how come the owners did not call the dog off when they started to run into the wood. On other hands obviously these dogs are not as well trained as you are trying to make them out to be.

    I know if I lived on a wooded road and I know there are bears, wolfs or even moose around the house or even think they are then I would not let them run themselves. You can try to argue this all day long but anyone that lives here in Alaska knows we live with the animals not the animals live with us. We are all in there territory… Also so when moose come into our yards and eat our grass should Fish and game put out that too I mean moose are just as dangerous they are very capable of killing a human.
    Do you seriously not understand my point about gangs?

    The quote you offered had nothing to do with my friend and his dog. This dog was as well trained as I made it out to be. "On other hands," you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. I know if I lived in an area that went for well over a decade without a wolf sighting, I probably wouldn't worry about the small possibility of one showing up. Would you honestly not want fish and game to tell you if there was a wolf in your area?

  20. #20

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    Well Lab Man and AK River Rat I do know what I am talking about and I did read this on numerous occasion with other people. Also there is a lot of people that agree with me on all aspects of what I have said. Also I am done arguing because I have better thing to do then listen to people criticize Fish and Game.

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