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Thread: Sighting in...

  1. #1
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Unhappy Sighting in...

    Just looking for some tips and opinions on sighting in multiple power rifle scopes. Do you first sight it in on the lowest magnification then check it against the highest? or visa versa? or?? I have a Burris Signature series 6-24x on my T/C Encore .223 and can't seem to be 100% pleased with my results.

    I figure (I may be wrong too) that the .223 round should not have a significant (more than 4-5") drop from 100 yds to 300 yds when sighted in 2" high at 100. I'm too lazy to research the specs on the round but I am shooting high quality, ballistic tip ammo (55gr. Hornady TAP) so consistency shouldn't be a problem.

    Recently I was at the range and had the situation described above. Sighted in about 2" high at 100 (scope at 12x) then moved out to 300 (scope now at 24x) and couldn't hit 8 1/2 x 11" paper target. Figured I was low so I aimed at top of 6" black center and still no holes. I didn't have a clean surrounding target and forgot the butcher paper so I'm not exactly sure where I was hitting..... I was using a good rifle rest so aimpoint is not in question.

    Any advice other than using a BIG clean target at 300?
    AKmud
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    Yes, rob. Give me that encore and you wont have any problems. That way you wont have to worry about sighting it in.

    Actually I only use low power scope so I have never run into your problem. I was just trying to get that .223 off your hands. cant blame a guy for trying...lol

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    What groups were you getting at 100 yards? Each rifle is an individual and the velocity of what you are getting might not be what you think you should be getting.
    I would suggest you try shooting some groups at 200 yards and go from there. I would also consider shooting some groups at 100 yards at a low power setting and then try 24x and see if your point of impact moves. If it does time to sell the scope or return it.

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    always sighting in on the highest magnification. And then checking it at lower: You must be most precise when using the highest magnification, because your target is small or far away...
    Slight difference is probably normal when using a scope which has itīs reticle always beeing the same size. When it magnificates up, it should be defintely NO difference...

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    Default Sighting In

    AKMud,

    The velocity of the round and the B.C. determines the POI down range and without knowing exact velocity, it is just an estimation. With 2" high at 100 and your velocity of about 2750, (?) (I assume a 14" pistol here you didn't say) you'll be more than 12" low at 300 yds. The short barrels and recoil of a pistol will make POI much different than a rifle. Also, your grouping ability will be much less at 300 than 100. If you can shoot 1" at 100, you cannot shoot 3" at 300, it will be more like 6" group, due to many factors. I have never seen a shooter who could consistantly shoot the same MOA at 300 as at 100. Usually twice the MOA. Your higher power scope will make this worse, and the bench technique for a hand gun is different from a rifle. Rest only the forend and the wrists on sand bags, with clearance for the grip to clear the bench, this allows consistant free recoil.

    Any scope that changes POI when changing power is not worth very much, though this is very common in the large range variable, (such as 6-24X) the greater the range the greater the error.

    Other than that, you have a nice pistol. If you need a big clean target at 300 yds, shoot at 200 yds. Good shootin'.

    Murphy

  6. #6
    New member George's Avatar
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    Default group at distance

    [Murphy, You're so right about "1 inch at 100 doesn't translate into 3" at 300"! Wish it did though...] And yes, use a big piece of paper at 300 it will tell the story with no guessing. And, if a pistol, then 300 is a long ways! At high power- the wobbles are magnified both to your eye and brain adding to the difficulty in accurate shooting at that range.

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    Murphy - He did mention that it's a T/C Encore...which is the single shot rifle.

  8. #8
    New member George's Avatar
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    Default encore

    Well uhh, There are both Encore pistols and rifles. Regardless, the problem still exists as it relates to a small target sheet at 300 yds, whether it be pistol or rifle just much more so for the pistol than the rifle- namely: high magnification amplification of perceived wobbles, wobbles, unknown trajectory and unknown basic accuracy. I think the common Encore pistol barrel lengths are 12" and 15".

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    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Default I should have clarified...

    it is a rifle. It has a 26" heavy bbl and I was getting <1" groups at 100 yds. I'm not sure of the ammo velocity, but it is what our swat team uses (Hornady ballistic tip TAP - Tactical Application Police) and the 55 gr. shoots very well out of my encore (it didn't like the 60 gr).

    I guess I'll go the other way (high magnification first) on my next trip to the range.

    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Blink
    Yes, rob. Give me that encore and you wont have any problems. That way you wont have to worry about sighting it in.

    Actually I only use low power scope so I have never run into your problem. I was just trying to get that .223 off your hands. cant blame a guy for trying...lol
    Blink - wasn't sure what you thought of it after that light trigger got ya!
    AKmud
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    The porcupine is a peacful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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    I'm not used to that light of a trigger but I'm sure I can get used to it. It definitely surprised me for an encore thats for sure.

  11. #11
    New member George's Avatar
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    Default trajectory

    AKm, That sounds right. T/C rifles and pistols generally are very accurate. At < 1"@100 you shouldn't have any problem hitting paper at 300 but do use a little larger paper or cardboard back. With that set up I'd use the higher power for that purpose if you can get a good, steady rest. Since your're lazy (LOL!), looking at the ballistics program, although they are sometimes very close and somtimes so-so, here are the numbers without wind and under normal conditions... 55 gr. bullet with .267 BC and muzzle vel of about 3050?? +2" @ 100, highest midrange +2.2", -6.8" @ 300. OR +3" @ 100, highest midrange + 3.8", -3.5 @ 300. Of course the farther out the more unpredictable and less exact the estimates. Anyway, the paper will tell. Good luck.

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    Oh.....thought Encores were their rifle line and Contenders were their pistol line. Should've known things aren't that simple.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Default

    The only thing I can think of is that your scope changed point of impact when you changed the power setting, ie a scope problem.

    You definately should be on the target going from 2" high at 100 out to 300 yds with a 223 rifle.

    Magnification doesn't always shrink group sizes, and high magnification in certain air conditions ie mirage can make for bigger groups. I can shoot sub moa groups with a 2 1/2X scope.

    Whenever trouble shooting, only change one thing at a time. Go back to 100 yds, confirm POI with whatever scope setting you choose, then move out to 300 yds w/o changing the scopes power setting and see what happens.

  14. #14
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Default More info...

    I broke out of my lazy stupor and found a box of ammo. To my surprise it had some performance factors right on the box! It said - at muzzle 3030fps, +1.47" at 100yds, 0.0 at 200 yds, and - 7.24 at 300 yds. It drops more at 300 than I thought which probably accounts for me being off the paper (probably low). Time for some more range time! (and a bigger piece of paper!)
    AKmud
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    The porcupine is a peacful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

  15. #15

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    My suggestion; go back to 100 yds and back to the lowest power setting. Confirm POI at the lower power setting. Then change to the higher setting and see if POI has changed. If it has, adjust sights as needed (while still at the higher power setting), then move to the longer range and see how it is doing. My self, the only thing that I use the lower power settings on a variable scope for are initial sighting in, after that I usually leave it set on the highest power setting. You also might want to check sights at 200 yds before going to 300.

  16. #16
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Default highest power

    the problem for me is that hunting predators with the scope at 24x is not really an option. That is waaaay too much power for those less than 100 yd shots, especially without a good rest. Maybe mid range would be the best option.
    AKmud
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    The porcupine is a peacful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

  17. #17

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    Personally I leave mine at the lowest range, cranking it up only if I need it.
    I have not had one where the POI changed significantly with power changes (significant = greater than my ability, the proverbial barn door), but if I did I would zero at lowest power (carry) and try to remember the windage needed at the top.
    Mike
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