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Thread: So much for trapping in CSP

  1. #1
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Default So much for trapping in CSP

    http://www.adn.com/front/story/299702.html



    seriously what are you using a conibear for in a heavily traveled area with nothing bigger than marten except peoples dogs?
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  2. #2
    Member garnede's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I saw that story in the paper this morning too. The ADN shows an obvious stance on this issue in this arcticle. If this passes then soon there will be no trapping in CSP!
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

    http://wouldieatitagainfoodblog.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    Member MNViking's Avatar
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    Some pretty wild comments at the end of the article. I find it amazing that people actually write that stuff and don't see their hypocrisy. Blow a trappers head off?

    Monkey, I think you should take the challenge from the person that said they have $10k in savings they don't mind spending on fines for stealing traps.

    As Bob Barker says: "And remember folks, get you fanatic pet owners spayed or neutered".
    Finally, Brad Childress is GONE!

  4. #4
    Mark
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    Problems on both sides of the equation, IMO.

    Just like with the dogs that ended up lunch for Army wolves (with the exception of the one that was in it's own yard), they're supposed to be on leashes.

    But it probably isn't too smart to be trying to trap wolverines or wolves with conibears on a trail in a state park that is well used by yuppies, either.

    The funny thing is that as trapping and hunting are curtailed more and more, there will be more and more wolves, wolverines, bears, coyotes, etc frequenting the safe haven. Then the yuppies will be crying about their unleashed dogs getting eaten.

    Oh, well. It will result in just what a society like this needs:

    more laws and regs................

  5. #5

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    The scary thing is, the same people that are crying cruelty to animals, are clamoring for violence against the trapper. I am a dog owner, and I would understand the frustration. I would never trap that close to a trail. But the threat of violence against a person in the name of an animal, scares me.

  6. #6
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    I'm all for trapping, but that guy is stupid. He is making trappers look very, very bad. That isn't the fault of ADN it's that guys fault. Also is it legal to only check traps once a week? I wonder if that part of the article is fact or fiction?
    Did he pick that spot as it was sooooo easy to get to and walk on? I mean c'mon. If trapping is banned in CSP you can blame that guy. The only excuse I would listen to on his part is if he is old or handicapped yet still wants to trap. I certainly wish he would have gone somewhere less popular though.

  7. #7
    Member garnede's Avatar
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    The part about prople stealing his traps and redily admitting to it stuck out to me. Why does one un-thoughtful act justify an illegal act?
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

    http://wouldieatitagainfoodblog.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    Member Bushpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garnede View Post
    The part about prople stealing his traps and redily admitting to it stuck out to me. Why does one un-thoughtful act justify an illegal act?

    ...because with some people, it's do as I say, not as I do. A thief is a thief is a thief, doesn't matter which way you cut it. Whether it's a snowmachine or a trap, it is still something of value to the person that owns it. These people would be the same hypocrites screaming for the DA's office to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law if it was their stuff that was stolen.
    I refuse to tiptoe through life, only to arrive safely at death.


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  9. #9
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    I am totally against messing with someones traps. And I would be very upset if someone stole mine. However, the law says I believe that it is unlawful to tamper with "lawfully set" traps...from what I read, these traps were about 10' from the trail. Has anyone determined whether these traps were legally set??? I think that is the solution to this arguement. If there are restrictions on where traps can be located near a highly used rec area trail, then this "trapper" is in the wrong and should be prosecuted. If the sets were legally set, then even though I think its a dumb idea to set so close to a trail, then whoever messes with the sets should be prosecuted. I get tired of hearing both sides of the argument screaming stupidities at each other....

    This fall I removed (some of you may say stole) a bunch of illegally set snares on my property. They were unethically and illegally set in so many ways,i.e.,posted private land...on a trail that had tons of dog team tracks on it....and 2 weeks prior to the season even opening. SO yea, Im guilty of stealing someones gear...by the way, if the person who set them is out there reading this, just so you know, I ended up catch really nice fox in each of your snares (after the season actually opened!!)

    AKPM, if there are wolverine or lynx in the area a conibear is a perfectly legitimate type of trap, fast killing and no bullet holes requried in the hide. You may not think there are wolverine or lynx in your area just becasue youve never seen sign, but I'd bet that they do move thru there.

  10. #10
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    [quote=Mark;204333]Problems on both sides of the equation, IMO.

    Just like with the dogs that ended up lunch for Army wolves (with the exception of the one that was in it's own yard), they're supposed to be on leashes.

    I agree with this in city parks, but come on your out hiking trying exercise you and your dog. What about bird hunters? Leash your dog while ptarmigan hunting too?

    Most states have laws about setting kill traps, like 330's can only be set under water for this very reason.

    This is an example where some of us will say "we have to stick together, united we stand divided we will fall" well I think that's a crock.
    It's idiots like this that make the rest our lives more complicated ie more regulations. I'm a trapper but it's hard to not agree with the anti's when people pull stuff like this.

    Remember the Haul road trucks? Those guys were tarred & feathered and this guy should be too. Publicly

    KK

  11. #11

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    dkwarthog,

    First of all my first questions to you would be, why would you use stolen snares to catch a fox, when you dont even know your own trapping regulations?
    Also, just because a trail "has alot of dog team tracks on it" does not make it illegal. Maybe a little unethical and I use that term loosely. Its done all the time. Now the fact that they were set on your property, you have every right to remove them. If in fact the property was properly posted with a sign in more than one location.
    Alot of trappers will leave their snares, pull them tight and hang them in trees until next season. Not something I would do but its done all the time. There is no harm in it and it does not mean they are trapping or snaring out of season. It simply lets other folks know that this area is claimed and is actively trapped during trapping season.




    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    I am totally against messing with someones traps. And I would be very upset if someone stole mine. However, the law says I believe that it is unlawful to tamper with "lawfully set" traps...from what I read, these traps were about 10' from the trail. Has anyone determined whether these traps were legally set??? I think that is the solution to this arguement. If there are restrictions on where traps can be located near a highly used rec area trail, then this "trapper" is in the wrong and should be prosecuted. If the sets were legally set, then even though I think its a dumb idea to set so close to a trail, then whoever messes with the sets should be prosecuted. I get tired of hearing both sides of the argument screaming stupidities at each other....

    This fall I removed (some of you may say stole) a bunch of illegally set snares on my property. They were unethically and illegally set in so many ways,i.e.,posted private land...on a trail that had tons of dog team tracks on it....and 2 weeks prior to the season even opening. SO yea, Im guilty of stealing someones gear...by the way, if the person who set them is out there reading this, just so you know, I ended up catch really nice fox in each of your snares (after the season actually opened!!)

    AKPM, if there are wolverine or lynx in the area a conibear is a perfectly legitimate type of trap, fast killing and no bullet holes requried in the hide. You may not think there are wolverine or lynx in your area just becasue youve never seen sign, but I'd bet that they do move thru there.

  12. #12
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    akhunt, I didnt post all the details cause I had posted that previously. Where did I say anything about not knowing the regs? Explain that comment...

    Why did I use "stolen" snares to catch a fox??? IDK... maybe because they were set ILLEGALLY on my posted property!! Should I have left a nice little note for this tresspasser or maybe a plate of cookies and hot cocoa??

    The trail in question is on MY property, Constructed by me, POSTED by me and comes directly from my dog yard. This yahoo, came on my property, walked directly under 3 no trespassing signs in the middle of the night (2 AM).

    BTW, maybe it's not illegal to set a trail used heavily by dog teams, and really, it shouldnt NEED to be illegal!! It should just NEVER HAPPEN!! How much intelligent thought is involved in setting snares in the middle of a heavily used trail?? This is just common sense unless you think you have the right to do anything you want with no regard for anyone else. That is the kind of thinking that will get all of our trapping privledges taken away little by little. If you breakout a trapline trail and then others start using it and it becomes a "heavily used" trail, that is something else and Im not talking about that. That has happened before and I fully support the right to bed traps in your trail.

    These were not left over snares and the loops were not closed. They were not there when I went to bed and when I got up in the middle of the night to see what the hell the dogs were barking about they were there and the yahoo was already gone. BTW AK, know who this person might be? PM me if so. I know a trooper who would like to talk to them

  13. #13

    Talking

    My question about you understanding the regs before you go out and snare or trap came from your comment "However, the law says I believe that it is unlawful to tamper with "lawfully set" traps...from what I read, these traps were about 10' from the trail. Has anyone determined whether these traps were legally set???"
    If you knew the regs you would know that it is legal to set your traps in the middle of your trail if thats what you feel like doing. I'm not saying its right and its not something I practice either. I'm actually a trapper that does things by the book, both written and unwritten and have had my share of problems with musher's even when my traps are 100 yards off a trail..!
    It doesn't matter if it was 10 feet off the trail or 100 yards, you'll always have someone messing with something when they don't believe in the same things you do.

    And nope, I don't know who the snare person was. But they needed to read your signs twice if they didn't see them in the first place

    One last thing, I dont believe a 1/3rd of what is published in the papers anymore, you never get the whole story and the one you read is usually blown up to make their point.

  14. #14
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    All I was getting at with the "was the set legal" question was if it was legal in that area... In other words, I've never been to the trail that this happened at but I'm assuming it is a maintained public trail. If so and seeing that its in the park, I am also thinking (but do not know for sure) that its illegal to set traps on it seeing as how there are sometimes more restrictive rules for hunting and trapping within parks. I dont know the answer to that.

    My only point was that either the trap was legally set or it wasnt. That is what should be driving this arguement, IMO. Someone should be prosecuted, the question is whether it is the "trapper" or the "thieve(s)" who deserve to be punished. Sadly, it is likely that it will be us trappers who will ultimately be punished. Even those of us who believe in following the rules and try to be ethical about how we do things.

    I agree that whether its 1 foot, 10 or 100 miles, if someone who dont like trapping finds them, they will more than likely get tampered with or stolen. That is a sad reality of the times.

    BTW,I was just messing with you on the comment about you maybe knowing this person.. its hard to word things to get attempts at humor across clearly

  15. #15
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    Default Off leash is legal

    fyi, in Chugach State Park here's the regulation on pets:

    Pets must be on leash at all visitor centers, campgrounds, picnic areas and trailheads, and under voice control in the backcountry. Please clean up after your pet. In campgrounds, pet noise is not permitted after 11 p.m. 11 AAC 12.130

  16. #16

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    First of all, there are MANY more things out there that will harm a dog, before a trap will. I have seen and heard of many more dogs getting trampled and killed by moose. Traps are the least of the general publics worries. Moose, porcupine, bears (when they are awake) are a bigger threat than any trapper.
    The regulations clearly state that dogs off leash should be under VOICE command. Anyone with common sense would keep their dog on leash if their dog is not capable of hanging out with its owner. Being a trapper I know when trapping season is. I know when to use common sense and be more aware of my surroundings. The general public that venture out into the back country should also have the same knowledge and common sense. I have show dogs who live with me, and are are a mile from the start of our line. My dogs are not allowed to roam and the one that we do have that I know isn't very obedient off leash is restrained at all times. I believe the owner is as much to blame in this situation, Ignorance is not an excuse in the state of Alaska....




    Quote Originally Posted by toofewweekends View Post
    fyi, in Chugach State Park here's the regulation on pets:

    Pets must be on leash at all visitor centers, campgrounds, picnic areas and trailheads, and under voice control in the backcountry. Please clean up after your pet. In campgrounds, pet noise is not permitted after 11 p.m. 11 AAC 12.130

  17. #17
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Article

    As we discuss this issue gentlemen, we need to remember some things. Like who, what, when, where, how......

    The article is biased right from the start. We do not know all of the facts and can only "arm chair quarterback" from what we have read. To get into arguments over the situation without knowing facts is pointless.

    We can blame the trapper and we can blame the dog owner. Point of fact is, the damage is done. What we need now is damage control as to how to prevent such situations in the future.

    In this case, no matter how the public is going to look at it, the trapper is wrong because the dog died. Even if the trapper was legal, the public is going to blame the trapper. The picture of the dog owner/pet and killer trap is going to sway the public against us, right or wrong. Damage done.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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  18. #18

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    If we didnt have anything to bicker about it would be a boring place Dave! (grin)....

    You are right, just like I said up top. I dont believe most of what I see or hear in the news or paper. There are always two sides.

    Take care everyone! Happy trapping

  19. #19
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kandiyohi Kid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Problems on both sides of the equation, IMO.

    Just like with the dogs that ended up lunch for Army wolves (with the exception of the one that was in it's own yard), they're supposed to be on leashes.....
    I agree with this in city parks, but come on your out hiking trying exercise you and your dog. What about bird hunters? Leash your dog while ptarmigan hunting too?

    Most states have laws about setting kill traps, like 330's can only be set under water for this very reason.

    This is an example where some of us will say "we have to stick together, united we stand divided we will fall" well I think that's a crock.....
    I somewhat agree. When I'm in the woods with my dog(s), they aren't leashed. I carry the leash in my pocket.

    But I'm aware of the danger of traps and that they're likely out there. I keep my dogs within sight by voice command.

    If you advocate no killing traps in such areas, than it means no trapping at all in that area. Socially, it doesn't matter if the dog gets trapped in a conibear or if it happens on a wolverine caught in a leghold. The dog owner and ADN will own you.

    So no trapping there. Then we'll hear about the poor dog owners who's poor dog was eaten by those mean, old wolves/wolverines/bears/coyotes/etc.

    Apparently, that's just the way it goes.

  20. #20

    Exclamation

    its perfectly legal, if your worried about your mutt keep it on a leash

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