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Thread: Fair way to reduce the crowds on the Kenai.

  1. #1

    Default Fair way to reduce the crowds on the Kenai.

    The crowds don't bother me much, but it seems that so many want to reduce them for various reasons. I see many people wanting to reduce the King anglers as long as they are not the ones being reduced. Most solutions that I have heard are not fair to everyone. It is a public resource and everyone should have equal access to it.

    Nearly every artical that I read about King fishing on the Kenai includes " I caught X ammount of 25 lbrs and X ammount of 35 lbrs before I killed this 60 lbr". From what I have seen over the past 15 years this is where the growth of the fishery comes from. Most of these anglers come from states where they have plenty of oportunity to catch average sized kings.
    The average angler from any place that doesn't have Salmon is thrilled with a 15-20lb King, and once they catch one, if the boat operator doesn't make them release it, they kill it and are done fishing for the day.

    If anglers were required to keep the first King they caught it would give everyone an equal oportunity not only to fish the Kenai, but to catch a big one. It would get many boats off the water earlier, and many trophy hunters would choose to go elsewhere like the Nushigak where they could catch great numbers instead of hunting for the big one.

    Perhaps to satisfy those who are only interested in catch and release the rule could be that if you release a King, you must release all of your Kings for the day.

    Like I said the crowd doesn't bother me much, but if it has to be reduced it should be in a way that is fair to everyone.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
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    Default

    I've said that one numerous times, and think you are on to something. Seems fair to me. Decrease crowds, boat traffic, boats on ramps and high speeds to get from one hole to another. Still give people the chance to get a "hawg".

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    Thumbs up Excellent Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by hawg boss View Post
    . . .If anglers were required to keep the first King they caught it would give everyone an equal oportunity not only to fish the Kenai, but to catch a big one. . .
    You've got my vote. . .

    Where do I sign up? . . .


  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    You've got my vote. . .

    Where do I sign up? . . .
    If you like the idea, I would talk to ADFG about it as well as anyone else that is concerned about crowding on the Kenai. I would think that something like this would be easier to do than trying to ban people from the river. It should also solve the problem of selectively removing most of the large fish from the population.

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    Member garnede's Avatar
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    [quote=hawg boss;203176] Most of these anglers come from states where they have plenty of oportunity to catch average sized kings.
    The average angler from any place that doesn't have Salmon is thrilled with a 15-20lb King, and once they catch one, if the boat operator doesn't make them release it, they kill it and are done fishing for the day.
    [quote]

    I don't know, in the south people don't pay much attention to how many fish they catch. There are bag limits that range from 15-50 fish per species pre day! So those are the ones who want to catch and keep catching all day long.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawg boss View Post
    If anglers were required to keep the first King they caught it would give everyone an equal oportunity not only to fish the Kenai, but to catch a big one. It would get many boats off the water earlier, and many trophy hunters would choose to go elsewhere like the Nushigak where they could catch great numbers instead of hunting for the big one.
    I can live with this. I bet even the guides might go along. Once the morning client catches a fish then their done for the day and they can start an afternoon trip.
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

    http://wouldieatitagainfoodblog.blogspot.com/

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Default Restrict guides

    Aren't the guides on the Kenai the main problem, and not the local Alaska resident fishermen? This is a serious question. How many non-guide boats are on the Kenai at once compared to guided boats? I'd support this for the guides only, since I believe they are the ones congesting the Kena. I believe this would also help eleviate removing the large fish from the river too.

    Tim

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Default Restrict guides

    Aren't the guides on the Kenai the main problem, and not the local Alaska resident fishermen? This is a serious question. How many non-guide boats are on the Kenai at once compared to guided boats? I'd support this for the guides only, since I believe they are the ones congesting the Kena. I believe this would also help eleviate removing the large fish from the river too.

    Tim

    Oops, padding my posts, meant to correct spelling and posted twice.
    Last edited by tccak71; 01-29-2008 at 17:49. Reason: oops

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    Question Maybe, maybe not. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by garnede View Post
    . . I bet even the guides might go along. Once the morning client catches a fish then their done for the day and they can start an afternoon trip.
    Guides? yukon?

    What do you say. . . will guides go along?


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    Member garnede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Aren't the guides on the Kenai the main problem, and not the local Alaska resident fishermen? This is a serious question. How many non-guide boats are on the Kenai at once compared to guided boats? I'd support this for the guides only, since I believe they are the ones congesting the Kena. I believe this would also help eleviate removing the large fish from the river too.

    Tim

    I don't think that singleing out the guides is productive. The Idea was to make it fair for everyone not to give an advantage to the unguided angler.
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

    http://wouldieatitagainfoodblog.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by garnede View Post
    I don't think that singleing out the guides is productive. The Idea was to make it fair for everyone not to give an advantage to the unguided angler.
    How is that fair to the unguided angler? Hawg is talking about guides taking out morning and afternoon clients, sounds like a sweet deal for them. I would hate to see resident OPPORTUNITY to fish abolished to please the guides or be fair to them. I think (without stats to back it up) that they are the problem. Aren't there 400+/- guides on the Kenai? The river is only 85 miles long.

    Tim

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    how bout making any fish caught on bait part of the daily limit for all freshwater species regaurdless if the fish was released or not? So you C&R one king on bait and you are done for the day, as an added bonus it protects silvers and trout from the high C&R mortality that bait fishing causes (sorta)
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    I really don't want to respond to this, it is going nowhere fast. Sorry, Marcus, this has been your baby, you can run with it. We have been here before. Thanks, but, no thanks.

    Yukon

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Aren't the guides on the Kenai the main problem, and not the local Alaska resident fishermen? This is a serious question. How many non-guide boats are on the Kenai at once compared to guided boats? Tim
    There are more non giude boats each year.

    My idea was a way to eliminate the crowding without taking oportunity away from anyone. Every single boat out there is part of the crowd, thus part of the problem.

  14. #14

    Default King Idea

    This is not a bad idea actually. But I am wondering how in the world they would patrol this. It seems like it would be very challenging; not that they don't have an insurmountable challenge as is. Any ideas on that? I can see a nightmare with people not keeping and people keeping on the same boat and which fish is who's and a huge mess. Can you imagine the booking nightmare for the guides. That sounds like real fun.....

    Not, that what we have is fair right now, the guides have pretty much kicked me and my poor cheap halibut off the river for my once a year trip down there from the Valley until I can afford like 5 grand to buy a 40hp jet four stroke. Just curious: If I put two 25 hp two strokes together (a river twin) is that the same thing as a four stroke? Somebody has to try that one in court right? It might as well be me....

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    I really don't want to respond to this, it is going nowhere fast. Sorry, Marcus, this has been your baby, you can run with it. We have been here before. Thanks, but, no thanks.

    Yukon
    I guess I missed it the first time. Sorry.

    I don't visit this board much, but when I do there is always some sort of geting rid of the guides thread going. I don't know if they will ever find a solution for the crowds, but you can bet that if they do, not everyone will be happy. Just be glad that these fish are not ESA listed, as that would put everyone off the water.

    I don't like my idea, but most of the other ideas that I have heard will exclude some people from a public resource. I would like to hear of some ideas that would give everyone equal oportunity. I thought that my idea would turn a few people away by there own choice, not because they couldn't afford it, or were told that they can't fish.

    Like I said earlier, the crowds don't bother me, but they obviously bother others.

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    Let's start with don't fish the third week of July and expect to have a hole in the lower river to yourself. Try a different time of year or different section of river. Try May or June, or even early July. There are a lot times of year, day (even the third week of July) and parts of the river that you can be the only boat or one of three boats. Don't go to Eagle Rock, Mud Island, or the pastures in July 22nd and not expect there to be 50 boats.
    I am not trying to be rude, as the "crowds" don't bother me either. The fact remains that there are fish to be caught without having to fish the peak of the second run with bait. Try the first week of June without bait, it can be very good fishing, with very few boats.

  17. #17
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawg boss View Post

    I don't visit this board much, but when I do there is always some sort of geting rid of the guides thread going.
    Do the guides put limits on themselves? Like T.R., I'm off the river too thanks to you-know-who. I don't think everything needs to be egalitarian. If the guides are the major polluters and a major source of crowding, why should their activities be limited? Sounds like they're abusing the resource and making life hard for everyone. Residents catch their limits and move on. Guides fish the entire season non-stop. I think guides are a problem in both the hunting and fishing community.

    Tim

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    Default wow!

    [. If the guides are the major polluters and a major source of crowding, why should their activities be limited? Sounds like they're abusing the resource and making life hard for everyone. Residents catch their limits and move on. Guides fish the entire season non-stop. I think guides are a problem in both the hunting and fishing community.

    Residents catch there limits and move on? when was the last time you took your boat down to the kenai, made a drift,caught your king and then went home? how many "res" do you know that are on the river 14-16 hrs a day when the fishing is hot? i could easily say 20-25 that I know.
    How many "res" use guides? the ones that dont have boats, the ones that have boats and just want to enjoy themselves, there are quite a few.
    the fact is that 15 years ago there were 50K less people here, tourism wasn't as great and our rivers were less crowded. we are not going to get to enjoy those lonely days on the water as in the past.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Let's start with don't fish the third week of July and expect to have a hole in the lower river to yourself. Try a different time of year or different section of river. Try May or June, or even early July. There are a lot times of year, day (even the third week of July) and parts of the river that you can be the only boat or one of three boats. Don't go to Eagle Rock, Mud Island, or the pastures in July 22nd and not expect there to be 50 boats.
    I am not trying to be rude, as the "crowds" don't bother me either. The fact remains that there are fish to be caught without having to fish the peak of the second run with bait. Try the first week of June without bait, it can be very good fishing, with very few boats.
    You are right about that. There used to be good sized groups of boats at Poseys, swiftwater etc. Not to many anymore. Most have moved to the lower river, which has also made the crowd apear larger, but in this case it is just a change of location. I have made a few runs above the bridge in July without seeing another boat. Lots of times in July where there is very few boats above Stewarts also.

    I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post. I am not pushing any change for the river, (except a little less gillneting). I was just trying to get people that want change to think of ideas that don't point to there fellow sport fishermen. The sticker makes a great target, but who would people point at if the guides were not required to have the stickers on their boats. I have seen a great increase in boats with dogs in them... They must be the problem lets get rid of the boats with dogs.... What we all need to remember is that the dogs don't fish, and neither do the guides, it is each individual siting in the boat holding the same fishing pole as you with the same single hook, and having the same fishing license in their pocket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Do the guides put limits on themselves? Like T.R., I'm off the river too thanks to you-know-who. I don't think everything needs to be egalitarian. If the guides are the major polluters and a major source of crowding, why should their activities be limited? Sounds like they're abusing the resource and making life hard for everyone. Residents catch their limits and move on. Guides fish the entire season non-stop. I think guides are a problem in both the hunting and fishing community.

    Tim
    1) Guides can't legally put limits on themselves.

    2) See my post above, lots of time to fish.

    3) Guides tne major polluters, nope, per user they are probably the cleanest.

    4) Residents catch their limits and move on.......thats a good one

    5) You don't seem to like guides in general. My guess is that nothing they could do would make you happy.

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