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Thread: 6.5 Swede Target loads any favorites?

  1. #1
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default 6.5 Swede Target loads any favorites?

    I have some 140 grain Sierra Matchking boat tails.
    Anyone have any favorite target loads for an old M-96 and M-38 Swede Mausers? Nothing hot.

    I loaded some with IMR 4350 (43 grains and a Federal 215m primer) that load shot a 3/4 inch group, but was hotter than these old guns need to have going through them for an extended period.
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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    It’s been a year or so, but Handloader magazine had a whole article dedicated to the “sweed” and target shooting. I will dig around tonight and see if I can find it.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Have had exceptional success with Lapua brass, Federal 210M primers, and 46.5 grains of RL-22 with either a 140 Sierra GK or MK. The load chronos @ 2650 in my 24" barreled/sporterized 1917 Carl Gustaf and if I do my part, will deliver consistent 3/4" groups. I've shot the various flavors of 4831 as well but my rifle seems to be partial to RL-22.

    All the usual caveats...Start low and work up.
    Hope this helps

    Tom

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Ok, the article I was referring to was from a magazine titled “Accuracy secrets, Shooting Times ultimate guide to precision” from the publishers of gun guide. Inside the cover page it notes: Shooting times, an InterMedia Outdoors Publication www.shootingtimes.com no issue number or date is shown.

    The article is titled: “the 6.5 Swede- an unlikely tackdriver by David M. Fortier”. Mr. Fortier goes on to talk at length about the cartridge and rifles so chambered, in particular the model CG-63 and his use of it in NRA High Power shooting events. He goes on to list 17 different loads and chronograph data for 9 factory loads. Frankly it’s a little more info than I care to type into this thread, and given the always present risk that I may transpose some numbers or make a dangerous error with a simple typo, I am not really inclined to add the data at this time. That being said, I can scan the article into pdf and e-mail it to you if you send me a PM with your e-mail address. Or you could try their web site and see if you can order a back issue. Your call.
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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    I guess I forgot to add that one advantage to ordering a back issue would be that you would have the entire magazine which happens to have 20 some odd individual articles in regards to accuracy from action blue printing, quality barrels, and re-loading tips. I think I paid like $6 for it at Carr’s and it has been a good read.
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    Sorry to keep re-posting, but I keep forgetting stuff. The Siera 140 gr that you reference is NOT listed in his load data. So there aint no info on the bullet you got listed in the article. there is data for the 107 gr match king.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    I have 8 reloading books. I was just looking for favorite mild loads that some of the pards here may have worked up or stumbled across.

    I don't want to put you to any trouble so I will see if I can order a copy from the company.

    But you or anyone here can e-mail me any time, dragonfly@alaska.net
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  8. #8

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    Can’t help specifically with 140 Match kings but I shoot a m96 regularly. 129 Hornady sp and Imr4350 42g – 2599, 42.5g 2653, 43g 2656. These all punch tight groups. I have found with the 6.5 that once you get to an accurate load ( in this case 41g) that the decreasing group size is almost not discernable. They just shoot tight groups! The fellows at hornady apparently use a M96 but others publish data from a 22-24 inch barrel. Your barrel is 30 inches so loads may be milder than you think. Swedish Mausers were factory proofed at something like 60,000 cup( may need correction but it was certainly high pressure), that, Swedish steel and quality of manufacture mean that if you have a good one you don’t have to worry too much about pressure. There has been a lot of discussion with regard to this) I keep loads mild and under max but the point is that you won’t blow it up at these velocities.

    With Hornady 140 and H4831, 44g 2435, 45g 2488, 45.5 2542. 45.5 is close to max but 45g gave only 19fps variation across 5 shots and sub 1inch. In spite of the manuals I think that 4831 is a little slow for the cartridge and over the years many agree that powders in the 4350 range are better. When I first started Imr4350 was the recommended powder for 129 and 140 grains and in the unlikely event that they don’t work, slightly faster powders such as 4895 for 120 grainers. The 6.5 is easy to load so I expect that it will work well with a variety of powders. As soon as the weather gets above -10 I will be working up Nosler 140 and h4350 in my M77 ruger

    2 tack drivers in my m96 are; sierra 120 Imr4350 43g 2639fps, sierra 120 Imr 4895 39g 2683fps. Recoil- about zero

    One thing, I wouldn’t use magnum primers, the 6.5 doesn’t need them and they can increase pressure unnecessarily. I use fed 210 exclusively.
    Not a direct answer, but useful I hope

    Good luck.

    Interestingly, or strangely, the 5th edition hornady manual lists 46g Imr4350 at 2800fps as max load for the 129 grainer and the 6th edition lists 42.4g Imr 4350 at 2700fps as max. Quite a discrepancy which just reinforces the need to start low and use a chrono.

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    Are you guys shooting sub-moa with the factory iron sights? Man, I thought I was doing good to hit 2.5" groups...I need a 6" circle minimum just to see it at 100yds over that fat front post! Not to mention 300meter lowest elevation setting...I am grouping, but 5" high and 4" left.

    Mine is fun to shoot, but I don't have a desire to throw a scope on it. Anyone know of aftermarket sights that are better than the standard issue M96?

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Ripper

    I am currently using (on my 1900 Oberndorf M-96) the older pointed top M-96 sight that was originally installed on M-96s in the early 1900s. Plus I am using an M-55 type rear sight on my M-96. It gives me a touch better sight picture.

    My M-38 has the regular flat topped front sight eveloped during the WWII time period and the U notch rear sight.

    You can fine tune the M-55 style rear sights with a little key like tool that has two little teeth.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Swde mauser sight and action.jpg  
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    Ripper: No, mine is wearing a Leupold Vari X3 3.5-10 x40 with elevation turrets. You can do amazing things with it...

  12. #12

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    Ripper, you are doing well to hit 2.5" with iron sights at 100. My 96 shoots tight groups, the best have been 1" and some days 2.5". I think the point is that they will shoot much better than eyes and iron sights will generally allow. Sub MOA doesn't happen every day but I have shot it enough to think that poor performance is down to the shooter and not the rifle. I would bet if i had a scope such as Tom L my 96 would be my most accurate rifle. With my first handloads I shot 3 at a 3" white circle on blacK paper but could barely see the holes I passed the rifle to a friend who shot 3. we walked down to the paper and there was a 1.2" 6 shot group. Fluke? maybe but when my eyes feel good and I go easy on the morning java, she shoots!

    I put a higher brass bead to bring the POI down by 6" which is typical for the 96. M38s are generally closer at 100yds I also have a no-smith EER sight base with a 2 power pistol scope. Not much more accurate but target aquisition when hunting is much faster. I wish I had a 6 power EER to see what she will do but I will never drill her for bases.

    I also have a Chilean 7X57 and put a MOJO peep sight on (slides in to the rear sight base) Much improved sight picture.

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    Default M96 Sight options?

    OK, I've got a couple more questions for you folks that shoot your M96 with iron sights.

    What is your preferred target shape and color? I never thought of a white circle on black paper. I have been experimenting with different shapes of targets (squares, circles, pentagons, crosses, etc) but haven't found anything that I really like yet.

    What are my options for switching out the factory sights for a better iron sight system? I've done some looking on the web, but there seem to be so many options it is a bit confusing. Does anyone have any links for aftermarket sights that can be installed without modifications to the gun?

    Mine is a 1918 Gustavstads by the way. Not in perfect condiditon, but the numbers match so I hate to modify it. Thanks!

  14. #14

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    I use a 3”” white circle on black 8.5x11 paper. The targets were originally blue which for some reason I prefer but I use quite a few and black is what comes out of the photocopier! Just put the top of the bead on the bottom of the circle and squeeze.

    I prefer a brass bead to the original pointed top sight which I have kept. If your 96 has the original front sight it will shoot 6-8” high at 100 yds and for some unknown reason almost always to the right. Must be a European thing! Mine has a stock disc with hold-under instructions for a 156g spitzer, so lighter bullets land higher.

    M38 and 96/38 should have factory sights regulated for the 156g spitzer. I am envious of float pilot in that he has a M38, I just cannot find a good one. I think word as to how good they are and the bargains have all been snapped up.

    Mojo sighting systems (website has the same name) have a peep sight which fits directly in to the original rear sight base with no gunsmithing. It appears to be similar to the m55 style that float pilot has. Just drive out the pin and slide in the mojo. Elevation is easily adjustable and windage with an allen key so you can actually have the bullet land where the sights are pointing. I love shooting these old rifles but the Kentucky windage/elevation takes the fun out of it IMHO.

    The lynx EER scope mount is similarly a no-gunsmith attachment and allows the use of a scout style Eer scope. I have used one for bush hunting Mulies and with both eyes open , target acquisition is very slick.

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Actually most of the Husqvarna made M-38s have sights that are set for the M/41 ammunition that was adopted in 1941. It was 139 grains or 9 grams. The M-38 and some repalcement sights on the 96 rifles converted to M-38s will have a " T " marked on the top of the sight. This means it is the sight for the TORPED or torpedo style ammo. The older 156 grain round nose ammo was called the M/94 ammunition.

    The pointed ammo box will say 6,5mm skarpa patroner m/94 prj m/41.
    (6.5mm M94 ammo with the M/41 spitzer projectile.)

    If you have a range plate or decal on your Swede Mauser. It gives you the correction for one type of ammo over another.

    My M-38 plate says G m/38 (Rifle model of 1938)
    Sikte for spetskula skjutning med trubbkula.

    (Sights for spitzer bullet shooting with round nose ammo)


    Some of the plates on the M-96s give the opposite info with sights for the round nose, Trbbkula when shooting the spitzer bullets.
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  16. #16

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    yes a booboo, typing faster that i was thinking, Float Pilot is spot on. The swedes changed from 156g to 139g in1941 my 96 has a range plate "Sikte For trubbkula skjutning med spetskula.or Sight for Ogive(round nose) bullet shooting with spitzer. at 100M you set the sights at the 300m and aim 3 decimeters low. I believe that equates to something around 8" at 100 yds.
    Interestingly my 96 was made in 1908 and has a range decal so i assume it would have been in service for at least 32years to that point. and yet parts look brand new? Pretty cool to shoot a 100 year old piece of history!

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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  18. #18

    Default FRont Sight

    There are also different height front sights.
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