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Thread: arrow/tip weight opinions please

  1. #1
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    Default arrow/tip weight opinions please

    I`m looking to get some new arrows..and I`m kind of at a crossroads..

    Bow is currently set at 65# and I don`t think I`ll change it.
    Arrows are currently 7595 ... 28 1/2 length , 4" vanes, 100 grain tip and according to gold tips charts just a hair over 403 grains.I`m not sure about the speed but I`m guessing it`s pretty low but the kinetic energy should be high.

    My queston is ..the chart shows 5575 for 28" and 7595 for 29" mine being 28 1/2 is kind of no mans land.
    I can possibly take up to an inch of the length..clearance looks good.
    I`ve been playing with the FOC charts too, trying to get balance.
    Should I stay with the 7595 set up or go shorter?

    5575 @27 1/2 " with 4' vanes and 85 grain tip would give me 360.5 grain arrow weight, increased speed and I guess ..noise.
    Does tip weight actually matter if the overall kinetic energy says its enough or do the heavier tips have more cutting area?

    Sorry it`s long winded and novice like but your opinions would be food for thought
    Thanks
    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

  2. #2

    Default AND

    What are you trying to accomplish with this bow? What will it be used for hunting and what type of terrain do you plan on hunting?
    More info will make the numbers clearer.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  3. #3
    Member AkTrouter's Avatar
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    Default

    UK

    If your bow is shooting well as it is, I wouldn't change a thing. I shoot a GT 75/95 with a 125 grain thunderhead and approximately a 30 inch arrow. If I remember right, it is right on the line with that set up as well. My bow is set somewhere around 62#'s. I have no problem with penetration and since I am not shooting string jumping whitetails, I will sacrifice a few FPS in speed for the increased kinetic energy, especially for the size of game we have in Alaska.

    As long as you are shooting a good straight arrow in paper and your broadheads are close or right on with your field tips, you have spined your arrows to match the bow.

    I also believe that the difference in those GT in grains from a 5575 to 7595 maybe less than a grain per inch. Hardly worth worrying about.
    You will notice more in playing with broad head weight.
    Cutting diameter should not be noticable between broadhead weights of the same brand and type. Smaller diameter equals better flight, but less cutting when you need it.

    Not a professional by any means, just my 2 cents...


    Goodluck,

    Ken

  4. #4

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    I do have a question here.

    First lets state the obvious

    KE is.... speed x speed x weight divided by 450240

    So....

    how can you have a "slow" arrow and "high" ke?

    First and foremost.

    As was stated, accuracy is much greater then anything else though extremely close second to perfect arrow flight.

    To me it sounds like you're worried about penetration vs cutting power.

    Being a traditional bowhunter I'm a bit more limited though alteast over the years seem to come out ahead of what more modern shooters find in penetration. Reason? Lots of factors...poor tuning, people trying to shoot to much head for there set up, and dull heads are usually the two big factors...or maybe it's pure luck.

    I'm not an overall super heavy arrow guy prefering something midstream of the stickbow relm somewhere in the 550 to 650 grains which is appx 10 grains per inch in my setup, but I'd bet if you're worried about penetration on say moose, bison, muskox or some of africas big game....you could add some weight to those carbons from tip to nock, slow it down a bit more and really shoot through some heavy dense materials (or be prepped for a bad shot scenario). Air hose tubing for fish tanks is one that has been recommended quite frequently acrossed the stickbow world to increase GT's weights...find the size that fits, run it full length so as to not change the dynamic spine of the shaft.

    As for tip weight...there is to light and there is to heavy. I like a slightly more then recommended or atleast on the more forward side of foc. It's proven itself on the critters I have shot. You'll have to take the time to figure things out for your setup. To little or to much will effect arrow flight, impact and penetration, sometimes good, sometimes bad. There is also to extreme in design. One end would be a typical 2 blade like I shoot, zwickey eskimo's, and the other end would be a mechanical head that's goign to take a HOLE lot more energy to work then my 2 blades would, with a host of designs inbetween.

    Lastly, being I build arrows this isnt a problem, for you purchasing shafts it'll mean a little more $$$ in the outset. I like to tweak and play with shafts. Being I shoot wood I can easily find shafts of different spine to get thing swhere I want them. For you however that means changing head weights, shortening or lengthing the shaft where possible, and possibly even going to some extra weight inserts at y our nock or point end (Dynamic spine is how an arrow acts and will be affected by weight on the nock or point end..ie extra weight on the tip end weakens the dynamic spine of your shaft, weight at the nock end will effectivly stiffen the spine of your shaft).

    Really this is getting into the advanced stages of bowtuning which everyone should be striving for if you are a bowHUNTER and not so much if you are a 3d or paper puncher as penetration is not a concern. To start off it might be best to stick with the recommended specs on FOC for your setup, and choose a BH that has proven itself over the years that is a midstream design. From here you can have something to base your next move off of to achieve what you're looking for if this path doesnt get you there already.

    Now hows that for confusing

  5. #5
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    Default

    The best way of explaining what I`m trying to achieve is to fall back on my airgun hunting days.
    The limit back home was 12ft/lb calibers were .177, .20, .22

    .177 were tiny pellets and used increased speed to get the ft/lb needed.

    .22 with a precharged rifle you could watch the pellet drop down into the target but had more shock power/weight to get the ft/lb.

    .20 used more speed than the .22 and more impact weight than the .177

    Kind of a happy medium...which is what I`m trying to get to with the bow, an optimum speed/weight/ and enough energy combo.
    It`s fascinating and frustrating at the same time, I`m basically checking in with you guys to see if I`m on the right track with the theory.
    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

  6. #6
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Default

    Your current setup is just about perfect and nearly identical to mine. I would not worry about any extra speed.

    That same arrow weight busted through a rib going in on a caribou at 50 yards and passed through well out the other side for me. My buddy shoots the same setup as me and shot completely through a broadside 9' brown bear with his. You are setup just fine.

  7. #7
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default About the same

    I am about the same. Except I shoot a 525 grain arrow tipped with a 125 grain broadhead. Like Doug said: It will blow through a caribou at 50 with no problems.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

  8. #8
    Member AkTrouter's Avatar
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    Default

    Here is a litle something I found. Assuming your arrow speed is constant or even goes up slightly with a lighter arrow your energy decreases with a lighter arrow.Arrow
    Weight
    Here is the link to see the calculator.http://www.archeryexchange.com/infor...lculator.shtml

    Stay where you are at until you are unhappy with the results.


    Ken

    I did forget to mention, I blew through a blackbear lengthwise(chest to right rear leg) at 7/8 yards, but failed to get a complete pass through on a cow moose at the same distance but broadside(no bone hit). You just never know..

  9. #9

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    Dave, if it were legal a 30lb recurve would blow through a caribou... Really thin skinned thin boned animal here.

  10. #10
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Trad

    If I had a 30 pound traditional, no I could not blow thru a caribou at 50 yards. I probably could not even hit him at 20. ;D

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

  11. #11
    Member JamesMac's Avatar
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    Default

    I donít know shinola about compounds? And it sounds like you may bee shooting one since you mention vanes on your arrows?

    However if you are shooting a traditional bow the general rule of thumb for excellent penetration on big game is 10 grains of arrow weight for ever 1# of draw weight. So with traditional tackle your total arrow weight should be 650 grains.

  12. #12

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    I think different conditions may call for a little different arrow strategy just like they would call for a different hunting strategy.

    If you're after moose or deer in the woolys, why concern yourself with arrow performance out at 50 yards like you would for barren ground caribou?

    If you want one rig that will do it all, I'd suggest a balanced rig in the middle of the road. Moderation in broadhead size and arrow weight for the bow will produce a reliable performer that can do it all.

    But you can tailor your rig for the hunt if you want. For an early season moose hunt, I like a big heavy arrow with a big Simmons broadhead.
    In most of the areas where I end up a stalk, you can't really see 50 yards, much less expect to get a clean shot that long. Why not use a log that has the best chance of of a good blood trail?

    For a hunt on slightly smaller animals in more open country where I can expect longer ranges, I'll go with a slightly lighter Simmons on a slightly lighter arrow and actually set a 40-yard pin to use and a 50-yard pin to help scrub a 44 yard shot.

    All 3 of my Barren Ground archery caribou came from tricks and ambush at under 30 yards though, but logic tells me I have to be ready for long shots out there. So I try to be when I go.

    Maybe it's thinking in bullet terms, but it helps me sleep a little better.


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