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Thread: 270 WSM on Grizzlies

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    Member kahahawai's Avatar
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    Default 270 WSM on Grizzlies

    I plan on taking my Nosler 270 WSM on a sheep hunt, do you think this cal. will be suffice on grizzlies? I will be shooting 140 grain nosler accubonds. I know shot placement is key, but could it do the job? I have never killed any big game with this rifle yet, but I love the way it feels and how flat it shoots......CK

  2. #2

    Default Should be fine....Not Ideal but fine.

    I believe that a .270 placed in the right spot can be very effective. I know a guy thats killed quite a few grizz as well as moose with a .243. I usually take my .308 into the mountains and leave my .338 back home mainly because there is a 2.5 pound difference between these guns. My hunting partner(bro) has an 30-06. We don't plan on using out sheep guns for bear protection. But if we spot a bear that we want to take and put the stalk on it I would have no problem shooting a bear with my .308 or a .270. Just be sure where you put the shot. Yeah a larger caliber would no doubt be great for protection, but you aren't planning on using your .270 WSM for bear protection, but to hunt a grizz which there is a difference. I say go for it.

  3. #3
    Member HuntKodiak's Avatar
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    I think you've chosen a great cartridge and bullet combo for sheep, but I don't consider the Accubond a premium bullet, which is something I consider important for hunting heavy boned or dangerous game, griz.

    Similar to the discussion Smitty and Beartooth are having about energy and bullets in the "30-06 for bear" thread, I believe a premium bullet is needed to handle the high velocities and impact at close ranges while still expanding and doing the job at longer ranges. Are you targeting the grizzly too, being prepared for a chance encounter to fill a tag, or wanting to be ready to adequately defend yourself? I ask because your intent will indicate the likelihood of shooting a griz, and that likelihood should drive how prepared you are for shooting a griz. I don't know any sheep hunters who've done both species nor had to defend themselves against a grizzly. My guess is there are some who've had that happen, but I don't think it's a high probability unless you are intentionally going after a griz and a ram on the same hunt. There are plenty of sheep hunters in this forum that can chime in on that aspect.

    Good luck with the sheep! Like I said in the beginning, I think your gun and bullet are excellent for sheep.

  4. #4

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    It is excellent for sheep, and will take a griz, if all things are perfect. If it is to stop a charge, I would want something a bit more stout. However, I would suggest going to the Partition.

    I switched to Nosler Partitions years ago, and although there are bullets in the same class, these have served me well and I have seen no reason why to change from perfection. They will also hold together when the need arises in the very unlikely event you have to use it against a griz.

    I have seen many griz while sheep hunting and had one push the tent down to my chest while sniffing the tent one night. I had my .280 by the barrel in one hand and the trigger in the other, waiting for it to tear or step on the tent. I was going to shoot it in the face if it did so, but it just sniffed, walked around outside a bit and left. This was where the sacred rule of keeping a clean camp really paid off.
    I think the pounding of my heart gave it a black eye when it's snout was pressing my chest, so it left us alone. This is the closest I came to having to shoot a bear in the dozen or so trips I made for sheep in Alaska. The other bears were seen at a distance.

    The odds are extremely small to being attacked or hurt by a bear, but the chance is there and the threat is very real, so being prepared is the only way to go. Using premium bullets will give you peace of mind in the event you have to react to a threat.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  5. #5

    Default .270 Wsm?

    The .270 WSM is pretty comparable to the 7mm Rem. mag. I have one and I'm not sure why, except that it's a fun little pea-shooter to shoot and works great on deer. Having a Dan Lilja barrel, it is very accurate.

    Hunting sheep in grizzly country, which is often the case, I would opt for my .300 RUM. It is only 1.5 lbs. heavier, and with a 200 gr. Accubond, is flat shooting and has far greater killing power than my .270 WSM in which I load the 140 gr. Accubond.

    I have not shot a bear of any kind with a .270, and would choose not to, given a choice. I hope your partner is hunting with a .338. The late Jack O'Conner hunted most everything on this continent with a .270 and killed at least one grizzly with it if not more. He was an avid sheep hunter. But just because he did it wouldn't convince me it was a good choice. Go ahead and hunt sheep with it if it is what you have. It will kill sheep fine. Don't go picking a fight with a grizz with it if you can avoid it. If you are where a grizz can't readily turn and get you, go ahead and poke that little Accubond through his ribs and his heart and he will die, sooner or later. Remember that on a bad day, with the wrong bear, a rib or two can deflect that little bullet and cause it to miss the heart. A shot through one lung isn't going to put that bear down very fast, and his adrenaline is going to be up. The .270 WSM is a poor choice for a head-on shot on an enraged grizz. You had better have backup, then.

    If all a grizz wants is your dead sheep, you had better let him have it, the range being close, and discretion being the better part of valor. If you have a grizzly tag, maybe you can work your way to a place where you can shoot him and he can't get to you quite so fast and easily.

    Something to remember is that most WSM-chambered rifles have very limited magazine capacity. My custom .270 only holds 2 in the magazine, and is slow to reload since I seat the bullets way out. You might want to figure such things into the equation.
    Jack

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    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    I gotta go along with Jack Morgan. Yup, a 270 WSM will kill a griz....but so will a .22 if put into the right place. I see the most bears when I am sheep hunting and they do have a reputation for occasionally being bent on revenge once injured....if you should find yourself in such a situation, a pissed off griz will do more than just a rumba on your toupee! There is a sig. potential for Murphy to intervene here so that if things should not go according to plan...they could not just go wrong, they could go way wrong. This is a dance you don't want to have to pay for.

  7. #7

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    If I were sheep hunting and wanted something to reach out for sheep and still have enough energy and hydrostatic shock impact with a tough bullet to possibly handle a bear encounter, it would be my 270-300WBY at over 3850fps with a TTSX bullet.

    Zero is 350: sight in 2.5" at 100yds, -5" at 425yds, -10" at 480yds, hold on top shoulder of deer size game at 480yds good out to 590yds.

    Sighting in at 2.5” high at 100 yards here are the following cartridges’ and their zero points:
    270-300Wby 130gr zero is 350yds
    300Wby 180gr zero is 280yds
    270Wby 130gr zero is 280yds
    270Win 130gr zero is 260yds
    30-378Wby 180gr zero is 295


    Energy at 100yd intervals for the following four cartridges:

    Energy:
    270-300WBY(130gr)
    Muzzle 4278.9
    100yds 3742.9
    200yds 3271.4
    300yds 2854.6
    400yds 2484.8
    500yds 2156.2
    600yds 1863.8


    Energy:
    300WBY (180gr)
    Muzzle 4092
    100yds 3642.6
    200yds 3235.9
    300yds 2867.6
    400yds 2533.9
    500yds 2231.1
    600yds 1957.3

    Energy:
    270WBY (130gr)
    Muzzle 3143
    100yds 2740.8
    200yds 2383.8
    300yds 2066.3
    400yds 1783.8
    500yds 1532.2
    600yds 1309.2


    Energy:
    270 Win (130gr)
    Muzzle 2766
    100yds 2412.9
    200yds 2092.2
    300yds 1806.9
    400yds 1552.7
    500yds 1327.3
    600yds 1128.4

    Now don't anyone think from this that I said I would use this ONLY to hunt Grizz. That being said, I would not hesitate to take in on a sheep hunt believing that it would do the job if need be.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

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    Member kahahawai's Avatar
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    Thanks for the Info. I will have a griz tag in hand, and would like to take one if he's exceptional. i am going to look into other bullets too, i'll probably look at the partitions ...going to do alot of shooting at the range with a chrono to see what i like, as far as performance. i am no ballistics expert, but this is a learning experience for me as well...i'll see you all out there...Cushman range!

  9. #9
    Member Eastwoods's Avatar
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    I stayed out of the "30-06 for grizzly" dabate, however, for grizzly I would take a 30-06 with a 220 gr bullet over a 270 wsm any day.

  10. #10
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    Default Give the TSX a try too.

    While testing the NP, you may want to try the Barnes TSX also. The TSX comes in 140gr boat-tail (B.C. of .404) and 150gr (B.C. of .386), or you could get the tipped TSX in 130gr with a B.C. of .392. The NP comes in 140 (B.C. .432), 150 (B.C. .465), and 160gr (B.C. .434). The TSX bullets have a higher B.C. than the NP.

    The NP has a higher sectional density for obvious reasons, but a TSX will retain nearly 100% of it's weight while creating a nice, deep wound channel. The 140gr NP will shed 20-30% of it's weight upon impact taking the bullet down to 98-112gr. Even the 160gr NP will drop to 112-128gr, which is part of the reason that the TSX out penetrates the NP in tests and real life scenarios. Even the 150gr TSX that starts with 10gr less than the 160gr NP ends up with about 15% more weight as it's passing through the animal. The wound channel is very good, and the TSX seems to shoot more accurately than the past Barnes bullets.

    I say this all because these apparently small differences can make a big difference if you need that extra penetration intentionally or unintentionally (animal moves at the instant you pull the trigger). My brother's 7mm mag put a Barnes lengthwise through a bull elk from his hind quarter to opposing front shoulder. Dead bull. I don't believe there's any way an NP would penetrate that far. Although, an NP will do very well when shot through one shoulder.

    I think you'd be very happy to shoot the NP, and I think you'd be tickled to shoot the TSX. I give the TSX the advantage, and if you found yourself in a situation where the only shot opportunity on a sheep is lengthwise like the elk I mentioned earler, you could shoot with the confidence that you'd get full penetration. And then if griz is on the menu too, the TSX will do all that the 270 WSM can deliver.

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    As a go to gun in an encounter you ask about- no way shape or form. Premium grade bullets would be the choice for sure. Having been in several ECCOUNTERS here in Kodiak, the definition of encounter is one in which you are up close and personal and the bear decides at close range what the next move is. In this situation its hammer time and I do not view a 270 as a hammer regardless of bullet weight. The ones I have taken had not read energy charts and quite frankly I do not think they would be impressed. Now interior Grizz are a much smaller bruin where in most cases they won't go over a large eastern black bear. Yes a 270 with a partition would be just fine, IS MY OPINION ONLY. I hunt everything with a 338Gibbs because of bear encounters. For me and when I am backing up others on intended bear hunts its the 416 Tayler with 350 gr Speers.

    Just a thought
    Neal

  12. #12

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    Hey 358 Hammer ( I really like your user name) that 416 Taylor with a 350 gr will get a bears attention and in your words the bear would be impressed. I really like the 416 cartridges.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

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    Member kahahawai's Avatar
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    Upon further research I have done thus far, seems like the Barnes TSX is very superior bullet, weight retention is the key and the penetration, I'll have to give it a go, come practice shootin' time...thanks HuntKodiak !

  14. #14

    Default 270wsm

    Kahahawai,
    I used to have a 270 WSM. I used it primarily for deer and elk. I handloaded 140 gr TSX's in it at just under 3,200 fps. It killed 500-700 lb elk without any problems for me. The TSX is a good choice with the 150 gr MRX probably being a better choice, in my opinion, for what you are looking at doing. I have never hunted griz before but I would think that under "ideal conditions" a 150 gr MRX could do the job. Just make sure your backup plants an extra shot in the bear imediately. That being said, I would like to say that I would rather be packing a 300 or 325 WSM for that particular hunt if griz was a possible target.

  15. #15
    Member Matt's Avatar
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    140-grain TSX would be an outstanding bullet for your 270 WSM. Strong enough to bust a grizzlies shoulders.

  16. #16

    Default .270 Wsm

    With all due respects, some of you folks have a lot more faith in little bitty bullets than I do. In my 50 years of hunting, I have seen a lot of failures with light, small caliber bullets on medium to large game. Even the excellent Barnes TSX bullets get deflected on bones, and don't do what you expect them to do. There is a substantial performance difference between a 140 gr. TSX and a 200 or 250 gr. TSX at equivalent velocities.
    Jack

  17. #17
    Member kahahawai's Avatar
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    Default .270 too small?

    Mr. Morgan, with respect of your 50 years of hunting experience, I see what you are saying, but I would not call the 270 WSM an "itty bitty" round, smaller caliber, yes. However, the 270 WSM has the same size casing as the 300 and 325 WSM. For most of our game in North america, I think it could do the job, thats why I was trying to get advice from those who have hunted with this cal. in the(WSM) and mainly bullet recommendations. Of course I would not hunt Alaskan Brown bear or African dangerous game with it, And yes, I have not taken big game with this new rifle because I just got it recently this summer I have heard of the 270 WSM quite effective on Moose,black bear, and Elk. I have other large caliber guns, but after seeing the performance of the short mags and how flat they shoot,and the weight of the rifle itself, I couln't resist on getting one. Yes bullet placement is key, but with new technology of the short action and new bullets thats screaming 3200-3300 FPS that can retain its bullet weight, to provide deep penetration at long distances...in a light weight rifle, It doesn't get any better than that!!!! I was reluctant to go to the new WSM, because I didn't want to spend the coin and I was more "old School" sticking to the 30-06 and 300 win. mag. and bigger cal., but thats changed....just my take.....CK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Morgan View Post
    ...........

    I'm going to pick on what you say, Jack, so bear with me if you will. I don't think you meant for this to come out this way but it doesn't quite fit with the best way to go. When shooting with a marginal caliber and/or higher velocity two things are needed...... Stronger bullets. Bigger bullets.

    Hunting sheep in grizzly country, which is often the case, I would opt for my .300 RUM. It is only 1.5 lbs. heavier, and with a 200 gr. Accubond, is flat shooting and has far greater killing power than my .270 WSM in which I load the 140 gr. Accubond.

    More energy is not more killing power anymore than pulling the trigger harder means more velocity....
    You make a case for the RUM with the accubond but not for the lower velocity and energy levels of the WSM...I think that is backward thinking, the Ultra will likely destroy the accubond at impact and the WSM may have a chance of getting it home....not that either would be a good choice for much of anything but sheep.

    I have not shot a bear of any kind with a .270, and would choose not to....
    ....and likely not a grizz with the RUM and accubonds either...I know you like the RUM but as a bear gun it needs the strongest bullet possible and that isn't an accubond.

    I hope your partner is hunting with a .338. .......Don't go picking a fight with a grizz with it if you can avoid it. If you are where a grizz can't readily turn and get you, ....Where would that be ....in a cage? Of course he can get you ..if he wants you...if he can find you....go ahead and poke that little Accubond through his ribs and his heart and he will die, sooner or later. ...... You had better have backup....This is akin to saying go ahead and shoot, maybe the bullet will get there and maybe he will die before he can get you and maybe your hunting partner can get him before this wounded grizzly ends up in your lap...

    Something to remember is that most WSM-chambered rifles have very limited magazine capacity. My custom .270 only holds 2 in the magazine, and is slow to reload since I seat the bullets way out. You might want to figure such things into the equation.
    Jack
    One might also want to figure into the equation that hunting grizzlys with an inadequate caliber is not a very good idea. I know we are sheep hunting and the 270 of any persuasion is a lovely caliber for this adventure but be advised there are grizzly lurking about and you should steer clear of 'em. This would be a good approach.

    (I'm sure having fun with this new script.)
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kahahawai View Post
    Mr. Morgan, with respect of your 50 years of hunting experience, I see what you are saying, but I would not call the 270 WSM an "itty bitty" round, smaller caliber, yes. However, the 270 WSM has the same size casing as the 300 and 325 WSM. For most of our game in North america, I think it could do the job, thats why I was trying to get advice from those who have hunted with this cal. in the(WSM) and mainly bullet recommendations. Of course I would not hunt Alaskan Brown bear or African dangerous game with it, And yes, I have not taken big game with this new rifle because I just got it recently this summer I have heard of the 270 WSM quite effective on Moose,black bear, and Elk. I have other large caliber guns, but after seeing the performance of the short mags and how flat they shoot,and the weight of the rifle itself, I couln't resist on getting one. Yes bullet placement is key, but with new technology of the short action and new bullets thats screaming 3200-3300 FPS that can retain its bullet weight, to provide deep penetration at long distances...in a light weight rifle, It doesn't get any better than that!!!! I was reluctant to go to the new WSM, because I didn't want to spend the coin and I was more "old School" sticking to the 30-06 and 300 win. mag. and bigger cal., but thats changed....just my take.....CK
    Two important points here. First the 270 isn't a bear gun. Energy levels don't mean much to a bear.

    You're on the right track with bullets of the likes of the TSX, or Swift A-frame just a litle closer to being useful. Your last statement is a little funny......what has changed to old proven physics of the old school '06 that works......no it hasn't changed but there may be some new kid on the block that has a good left hook. You have a nice rifle, I'm sure, but it is not a bear rifle....if you have a chance encounter, on a lonely mountain top, somewhere in the wilderness, hunting partner or not, capable shot as you are, with the bullet that most think is the bestest, remember this....when bear hunting, things can and often do go very wrong. And when things go wrong, it usually hurts you more than the bear.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  20. #20

    Default .270 WSM too small for griz?

    Hmm, I tried a reply a bit ago but I got bumped off the internet and lost it, I think. Well, Murphy I think you nailed my omissions, and certainly have a point about the Accubond up close. It has worked well in my applications in big, open country on big elk. The .300 RUM, that is, not the .270 WSM. The TSX or the A-Frame would be a step in the right direction for the .300 or the .270. And no, the .300 RUM wouldn't be my first choice if grizzly was on the menu. But if I was a young man, I might use it with the TSX on a griz-sheep hunt.

    I remember a conversation between my brother, an old gunsmith, and myself back in the '50s. They were speculating about the future of guns, and predicted that some day someone would neck down a .300 H&H case to the diameter of a phonograph needle, and that the projectile would have such extremely high velocity that it would kill a bear if it hit him in the paw. Welcome to 2008. The military is still working on it, but the consensus so far is that it will work much better on hard targets than fleshy ones, and that there are other technologies that will work better than tiny, high speed projectiles. We won't be hunting with those, I hope.

    Even though the .270 WSM isn't as extreme as the phonograph needle, I think the comparison holds. There was a time when I thought that using "leading edge technology" I could use small bores to kill big game. Many hunters go through that. Experience is a great teacher.

    I really don't care how many grizzlies have been killed with .243s. We know better than to do that. Kahahawai, as Murphy points out, I should just tell you that the .270 WSM is not a good choice for Griz. It is not a grizzly rifle with any projectile. Super high velocity just doesn't get it, even with hard bullets. A .280 Rem. would work as well, but is still not a good choice. .280s have killed grizzlies. Murphy knows that the "other Murphy" is usually along on a hunting trip. We don't want to read about you in one of Larry Kaniut's books. You are too much fun to exchange ideas with. There are things that "can be done", but experience causes us to doubt that they should be done, at least not by people that we like.
    Perhaps we could convince one of our presidential candidates to hunt grizzlies with a .270 WSM, just for the press, to prove he or she isn't against guns or hunting. This is still America, and Alaska is allegedly the "land of the free", so I will defend your right to hunt griz with whatever is legal, but don't use a stick and string without big backup, and listen to us old guys when it comes to bashing bears with medium bores vs small bores. Thanks!
    Jack.

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