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Thread: Feed-back

  1. #1
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    Default Feed-back

    Looking for feed-back from the Moose Management Program Sunday. I'm a member of the Fairbanks Advisory Commitee and want to hear from the people. Roggie L Hunter
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    Default moose meeting

    I wasn't able to attend the meeting but I hunted the rex trail area this year for the first time. I drew a muzzleloader permit for the wood river area. I flew with another person who had a permit also to get an idea where the moose were, and how to access them. We saw 25-30 bulls in the area during about an hour of flying over the hunt area and at least 75 cows maybe more we were concentrating on the bulls. Most were grouped up away from cows. The first trip out we didn't get a moose but saw 5 or 6 bulls and had stalks on 3 animals. second trip I went in alone and got a 48" bull and saw 6 bulls that day all larger than the one I got, He was the easiest one to get close to. I thought there were quite a few large bulls in the area and a fair number of cows, they were not near the trails though, and most were up high. I did notice that hunters who went in and stayed in 35-40 miles were more successful than those that tried to do the hunt in one day.
    I feel a lot of the uproar is about people have had areas along the rex that they have hunted for years and other hunters knew and respected these areas. The influx of cow hunters has brought in many people that don't know or respect these areas during regular bull season. This will continue as long as there is a cow season. Let the biologists manage game and the hunters figure out how to get along Just my two cents

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    I attended the presentation and hung around for about 30-45 minutes of public comment. I thought F&G bios did a great job of presenting data. 20A has been studied more than any other GMU in the state and maybe even in the country. I went in with an open mind and when you look at the data you realize that the decision to cull the herd some is based on years and years worth of data.

    The bios presented the data, I didn't feel like they were trying to "sell" anything. They fielded lots of questions and I don't think they came across as "know it all's". However, some of the public sure came across that way.

    I have found it interesting that those who poo-poo the anterless hunt and the bio science always bring back the issue of hunters from the Anch/Matsu area and more hunters in "their" area. Or the Rex trail is getting tore up. What does this have to do with Intensive Management of 20A? The come across like they care more about "their" trail than the moose. There was one person at the meeting there who was representing a native corporation who raised a rucuss and asked what F&G was going to do about trespassing hunters on their land..... what????..... Now, I don't think anyone should trespass and I respect native land, but this meeting was about the biology and the science of the area, not trespass issues. She did not ask any question about the biology. Seems she was more concerned about trespass than the moose in 20A. At least she came across that way.

    Then there were some who where not there for any of the presentations who came waltzing in for the public comment period and threw out some accusatory questioning like "what about blah, blah, blah..." Well, they had just spent 6 hours covering blah, blah, blah.

    The other thing I hear is "they tried that in the 70's and it didn't work". Well, the rest of the story is that around the late 60's the moose pop was around 20,000 and there were some bad winters and high predation which knocked the herd down to around 3500-5000 THEN they initiated a cow hunt. Duh... I wonder who's bright idea that was. Anyway, when they started this recent anterless hunt the herd size was at 17500 and we have had some wolf control over there also. It's a totally different situation now than it was 35 years ago.

    Bottom line is I don't have any heartburn about the anterless hunts. They figure that after this years hunt there will be around 15000-16000 moose out there and will recommend that for 2008 the harvest numbers be 6 percent of the herd, 500 bulls and 250 reported cow harvests which means probably 300 cows will be taken. 2 PERCENT!! That is a reduction in current cow harvest numbers. They want to manage the herd at around 12000.


    I do think that F&G could have done a better job of educating the public when they first started this hunt. This presentation should have been given several times starting 3 or 4 years ago. If it was I never heard of it. I think that the problems now are the social issues like trail access and new hunters coming in to the area, you have locals that feel "their" area is getting invaded. They need to work on PR and realize some of the ramifications of opening a hunt like this. They should have realized some of these social issues. But, they are biologists. Not PR folks. Then there are those who will totally reject the data because they were "born and raised here and have running the Rex trail forever and you can't tell me there are 15000 moose out there". You'll never change that mindset.

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    Thanks for the update! It sounded like it went about how I thought it would. There will be those that you will never convince about the benefits of a cow hunt. I tend to let the biologists be biologists and manage based on proven biological principles. Just because one can't find the moose doesn't mean they aren't there. I hunt one of the more remote areas of 20A and some years you have to run the moose off of the airstrip to even land and other years you have to hunt hard to find them.
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    Default I agree

    Snyd,

    I attended the moose program and agree with your synopsis. But it was probably too little...too late!

    I found the biology to be VERY interesting but not beneficial enough to fix the flawed image of ADF&G. The Department just lacks credibility with many folks and some of that is deserved. I hope the Department makes a conscious effort to fix their problems but it's been my experience that it can seldom be corrected from the inside. A very large slice of humble pie has been served to the ADF&G folks and I hope it is having some effect.

    The lady with the native lands trespass issue was not even in 20A but she found a convenient audience to dump her gripe upon.

    I really resent those that show up toward the end of the meeting, with a chip on their shoulder, and cause the bios to go back over previous discussions and waste the time of 100 other attendees.

    The budget comments were also very interesting and need further clarification but the contempt for the department was evident.

    There appears to be a rather vocal segment that would like to see Don Young removed.

    The access issue on the Western edge of 20A is a dilemma not easily solved. The "not in my back yard" attitude is prevelent in many issues.

    Overall, the meeting was very beneficial for me!

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    Ya Vern you are right. It seems that unfortunately ADF&G has dug themselves a hole in many ways so now they are having to do damage control, and I'm not talking about moose browse! It will take some time. Yes, and there where those at the meeting who raised other issues that were not in the context of what this specific meeting was about. I too resented that. It was not a forum intended to allow folks to hammer F&G on any issue they have concerns over. Seekins had no business waltzing in there at the end of the presentations and getting in to what he did. I thought I was paying pretty close attention to who was there and I didn't see him until the public comments portion after 6 hours of presentations. I thought it was very arrogant and that he was totally out of line for that meeting, he had a bone to pick with BOG that stemmed from his former public office days. He could have raised his issues with BOG and the state somewhere else, even if they are legitimate. It showed a total disregard for the bios and other members of the public who were there to learn more about how and why F&G is doing what they are doing over in 20A. Regardless of what side of the issue you are on.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Default go figure

    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Ya Vern you are right. It seems that unfortunately ADF&G has dug themselves a hole in many ways so now they are having to do damage control, and I'm not talking about moose browse! It will take some time. Yes, and there where those at the meeting who raised other issues that were not in the context of what this specific meeting was about. I too resented that. It was not a forum intended to allow folks to hammer F&G on any issue they have concerns over. Seekins had no business waltzing in there at the end of the presentations and getting in to what he did. I thought I was paying pretty close attention to who was there and I didn't see him until the public comments portion after 6 hours of presentations. I thought it was very arrogant and that he was totally out of line for that meeting, he had a bone to pick with BOG that stemmed from his former public office days. He could have raised his issues with BOG and the state somewhere else, even if they are legitimate. It showed a total disregard for the bios and other members of the public who were there to learn more about how and why F&G is doing what they are doing over in 20A. Regardless of what side of the issue you are on.
    thats why he is no longer in office

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    It seems that the political types can't help themselves. If they find a public gathering, their jaws are in motion. That's the nature of the beast.

    I think the bios showed exceptional restraint in dealing with some of the issues. If they have to explain the same material several times in one meeting perhaps the entire show should be on the road very often explaining the issues repeatedly. The different reports need to be professionally videoed for distribution to ACs for community consumption.

    My comments regarding the ADF&G credibility are not intended as an indictment of any personnel. It's one of the inherent characteristics of a bureaucracy to lose touch with the "customer".They do not work in a competitive environment so there is no need to look within the organization to judge whether they could do a better job in order to keep the competition from taking their customers. To improve their image, they must get past the denial stage so they can evaluate the feed-back effectively. Evaluating that feed-back is difficult as many of the disgruntled are not good at articulating their views but behind those comments are some latent reasons. And then we have "Beer Tavern Biology" to contend with.

    Somewhere in this problem I hope we can find consensus and move ahead.

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