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Thread: tundra 4 stroke

  1. #1
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    Default tundra 4 stroke

    performance update- i left the sled in the back yard for 6 days w/o starting it. temps here have remained about 20 below. previously i was running it after work each night w/o any trouble. i tried to start it saturday and it was dead. made some noise but no engine turnover. 1st i tried to charge and start it - that didn't work. i took the battery out, rewarmed it indoors completely, and proceeded to kill the battery trying to start a still frozen motor. i put a coleman cookstove under the metal plate below the motor, recharged the battery again. turned it over several times with almost starts and then finally it came to life. 2 different warning lights and an alarm went off intermittenly for a couple more minutes as a pulse sputtered back to it. i parked it in heated garage overnight. i ran it on tanana flats for 4 hours straight and no issues, still 25 below this morning. i think the "40 below" reputation does not apply if left sitting. not sure about day to day use and restarting. i might go to autotrim and get some plug in warmers, maybe auto start as well. a back up pull start would abrogate any possible requirement for heater plugins or auto start. on the upside, after running every night for a week prior, i topped off the tank with 2 gallons and no oil.

  2. #2

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    After leaving my Polaris and Arctic Cat two-strokes sitting for a week, I went out and checked the tanks. 0 gallons of gas and 0 quarts of oil were needed to top them off. Both started on the third pull, but I confess, it was only a -26 F. Still some confincing needed to convert me over to 4 stroke for snowmachines. I do think they are the ideal machine for touring such places as Yellowstone Park and some of the eastern trails leading from one town to the next. Alaska is just such a way different deal, I need a sled that is dependable, able to break trail and is ready when I am ready.

  3. #3
    Member byrd_hntr's Avatar
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    Default -44 F

    It was -44 F at my house this morning and I fired up the Tundra R (3 pulls) and took my mail to the mailbox. Dang near froze my finger off getting there but the machine ran like it was nobodies business. I think Ill stick to the 2 stroke for now.

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    Member AKGUPPY's Avatar
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    Default

    I'd say you got a weak battery, some bad gas, or fouled plugs.

  5. #5

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    Dang, that's not right having to dump money in an already expensive and fairly new sled to get it to where it will work.

    The 4 stroke tundra's were tagged at $2K more and change than I paid for my 550F and I haven't had any issues with my fan.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKGUPPY View Post
    I'd say you got a weak battery, some bad gas, or fouled plugs.
    or a 4 stroke

  7. #7
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by upstream View Post
    or a 4 stroke

    Props to ya Holly for trying the four stroke.
    There comes a time when we should be moving to cleaner burning rigs--it's 2008 for crying out loud.
    I'd love to see a clean burning two stroke available, maybe a catalytic equipped one?
    I've always liked the 550 rmks, had a couple, but they billow the blue smoke like the rest.

    I give you credit for trying, I hope you can get 'er sorted....



    Frank

  8. #8
    Member byrd_hntr's Avatar
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    Default as long as its home...

    I wonder if a plug in oil pan heater pad would help? Im not to familiar with the V800, but if you could plug it in for an hour or so before you tried to start it it might help. I have one on my 4wheeler and it works pretty good down to about -20 F. I just pick up a medium oil pan heater pad at the auto parts store and glued it to the bottom of the crank case. I plug it in an hour or so before I want to start it and it seems to really help. Oh I also store the battery inside.

  9. #9
    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    Default

    There are clean burning two stroke machines out there and a number of them have tested better than the 4 bangers.

    The dealer should have told you about the engine heater that is available for your Tundra. IMO it should be standard. It's a snowmachine that's being used in the cold for crying out loud! It does sound like you have a problem though. I have talked with many guys who start them down to 30 below.

    The problem you might have is starting the engine every night and not going for a ride will continually drain the battery lower and lower with each start. The battery will not recharge enough just sitting there idling.

    If the V-800 proves itself it may be my next machine also. In a SWT of course!

  10. #10
    Member GreginAlaska's Avatar
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    Default

    I wonder if a stronger battery and a good brand of synthetic oil would help?
    “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” attributed to Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
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    Default bigger battery

    i'll check and see if there's one with more cold crankability. it has a lot bigger battery than the 2 strokes do already(by the way inconveniently mounted sideways so the nut falls in the snow when you unscrew the post). i think there will be some bugs worked out over time and it's still a fantastic sled when running. i still really like not burnning any oil and great gas mileage/distance. i can't believe everything is electronic only though. idiot lights and start. that was a mistake in extreme cold weather. i'll continue to share my experiences with everyone.

  12. #12
    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    I really don't think a bigger battery will solve your problems. It will only put a band-aid on the situation. There is a problem and it needs to be solved or you will continue to chase this thing around. You also have the biggest battery Ski-Doo puts in their sleds and it should do the job if treated properly.

    The oil is a synthetic 0w-40 so that is fine too.

    How new is this motor? If it is brand new it will be easier to start the more it breaks in. Are you familiar with how to shut the fuel off to the motor if it becomes flooded or if you want to crank it to loosen it up in the cold without pumping fuel in? I do this quite often with my 600 SDI. Yes I'm lazy. Mine has a rope and I still don't use it.

  13. #13

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    Any hard starting engine 2 or 4 stroke can be helped a bunch by installing Irridium FINE WIRE spark plugs. I would suggest using them. Don't go with the large electrode plugs, only the fine wire ones.

  14. #14
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    Default

    I've got the new 4-stroke V-800 Super Wide Track (SWT). Leave it sitting in the back yard. After sitting for several days it starts just fine, down to 35 below. At 30 below it took a little throttle to get it to start, but at 35 below it would not quite start. Turned over just fine, but would not hit. Then when the temp warmed back up to 25 below I started it and moved it into the shed.

    There is a heater for it just like they put on cars, to heat the coolent. Also a heater pad on the oil pan would work.

    As for a pull start, no way. Too much engine there. I carry a small two stroke generator, so I can recharge the battery if need be. I can also start the generator and warm up the engine. I need the Generator when I get back to the highway, I drive a diesel pick-up.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
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  15. #15

    Default 4 stroke-

    Until the snowmachine companies come up with an alternative starting method (pull rope w/compression release), 4 strokes will never be an "Alaska" machine. I love my '05 Yamaha Vector Mountain, good gas mileage (17mpg), 151 x 2", comfortable, stable, it's my Tok/Dawson sled. BUT, if I'm going hunting or boondocking for days at a time with no access to power, I take my Scandic WT. My Yamaha has circulating heater, battery heater, oil tank heater and it's on the battery trickle charger 24/7. It will start to -30 easy if everything is plugged in. The simple truth is you have to treat 4 strokes like you would a car.
    just my .02
    sbsmith

  16. #16
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    Default brand new tundra 800

    mod elan-thanx for the feedback. i was hoping with only 10 hrs on the motor that was part of the problem. for clarification, when i said i would run it each night, i would take it out for at least a half hour playing, not idling in the yard. i'll check on price for blockheater, pan heater and battery heater. i'm not convinced 25 below and colder gives me any dependability for overnighters since no plugin. i think i'd be stranded having to take the door off a cabin somewhere i can't find the 40 below promise the dealers mention anywhere, but i don't buy it. all this said, i really like the sled. lots of muscle and versatilty. i haven't started it since last weekend and it popped right off at zero degrees tonight. i agree a heater should be standard as well as a speedometer odometer. what the heck were they thinking? i'll get those thin wire plugs, too, but there's some difficulty getting to those plugs as well (back to what were they thinking?). ok, school me up on how to turn it over w/o the injectors pushing fuel in.

  17. #17
    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    Default

    On all the Ski-Doo fuel injected machines the fuel can be shut off by holding the throttle wide open and then cranking the engine over. Page 79 of your owners manual walks you thru the procedure, but a good dealer should have mentioned it too. This is just like what some of us have done for years in the colder temps. We pull the motor over with the key off to loosen it up before throwing the power to it. This is copied from the owners manual:

    ENGINE CRANKS BUT FAILS TO START. (cont’d)
    4. Check amount of fuel on spark plugs.
    – Flooded engine (spark plugs wet when removed). Activate engine
    drowned mode and crank engine with rags over the spark plug holes (refer
    to OVERVIEW in EMS SYSTEM).
    – Flooded engine (spark plugs wet when removed). Activate engine drowned
    mode. Proceed as follows:
    • Insert key in ignition switch.
    • Press completely and HOLD throttle lever.
    • Turn and hold ignition key in START position.
    The engine should be cranked for 20 seconds. Release ignition key.
    Release throttle lever and start/crank engine again to allow starting.
    If it does not work:
    • Clean the spark plug caps area then remove them.
    • Remove the spark plugs (tools are supplied in tool kit).
    • Place rags over the spark plug holes.
    • Crank engine several times.
    • Install new spark plugs if possible or clean and dry spark plugs.
    • Start engine as explained above.
    If engine continues to flood, contact an authorized SKI-DOO dealer.
    NOTE: Make sure to verify that there is no fuel in engine oil, if so, replace
    engine oil.


    I know the engineers tell everyone this motor will start at 40 below but it simply doesn't do it in the real world. 30 below maybe if it was run the night before. If you are out when it is that cold try putting a tarp or better yet a blanket over the machine to hold some of the heat in the motor over night. It does help. We have done it on our machines and even our trucks in the past. Hopefully as the motor breaks in it will be less tempermental.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by holly View Post
    mod elan-thanx for the feedback. i was hoping with only 10 hrs on the motor that was part of the problem. for clarification, when i said i would run it each night, i would take it out for at least a half hour playing, not idling in the yard. i'll check on price for blockheater, pan heater and battery heater. i'm not convinced 25 below and colder gives me any dependability for overnighters since no plugin. i think i'd be stranded having to take the door off a cabin somewhere i can't find the 40 below promise the dealers mention anywhere, but i don't buy it. all this said, i really like the sled. lots of muscle and versatilty. i haven't started it since last weekend and it popped right off at zero degrees tonight. i agree a heater should be standard as well as a speedometer odometer. what the heck were they thinking? i'll get those thin wire plugs, too, but there's some difficulty getting to those plugs as well (back to what were they thinking?). ok, school me up on how to turn it over w/o the injectors pushing fuel in.
    The best fine wire, irridium spark plugs are DENSO brand. There are others out there, but the other brands do not offer the broad heat ranges that Denso does. They have a cross reference online as well.

  19. #19

    Default Cold starting

    Holly,

    Do you think the problem is in the battery, that is, it gets so cold that little current is available, or is it the engine, so cold that it is stiff - or is it both?

  20. #20
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    Default hopefully both

    the battery initially had enough juice to make a sad noise and nothing else. i hadn't run it for a week with temps in the minus 20's. the motor was frozen too, because when i thawed the battery and recharged it, the motor was still not wanting to turn over. hopefully there will be some changes as the motor breaks in more. can't tell now b/c the weather has been way above zero and i'm playing in our new foot plus of snow. the sled is running great 3 days of running and still plenty of gas in the tank and no oil burned. my range on 1 tank is supposed to be about 225 miles.

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