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Thread: TMA sheep hunting info

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    Default TMA sheep hunting info

    For those that draw the TMA tag this year and plan on hunting the Robertson Glacier area, PM me and I will give you all the info you need.

    I am also looking for TMA sheep hunting film footage. Please if anyone has filmed their hunt within the TMA, please allow me to put it on DVD. 100% of the proceeds (after cost) will go towards sheep.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    When you say that the proceeds will go to the sheep, what do you mean?

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    tv321


    I will be emailing you for that TMA info in Feb!....grins

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    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    Please if anyone has filmed their hunt within the TMA, please allow me to put it on DVD. 100% of the proceeds (after cost) will go towards sheep.

    Are making a sheep hunting dvd for sale to the public?

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    I DREW IT IN 1998 AND SCORED A FULL CURL, HOPING TO GO BACK THIS YEAR. Need 3 more weeks to find out! lolol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    When you say that the proceeds will go to the sheep, what do you mean?
    You asked a good question, Brian. Do you have any ideas?

    Still working this one out! Not sure where it would best be spent. Something must be done since ADF&G either doesn't have the money or doesn't believe there is a need for sheep surveys. So maybe paying for a few would do some good. I doubt I just hand over the money to ADF&G so they can go purchase new tires or chairs. I also wouldn't hand it over to FNAWS, unless they clean up their act. Maybe towards getting a few more coyotes would help.

    Many of us on these forums are really passionate about sheep hunting and many have mentioned they would give money or part of their PFD etcÖ to insure we continue to have the right to hunt sheep. I am willing to step up and make a contribution, but where to spend it is the question?

    As far as the video thing goes, I sent (3) different letters to all 98 people that drew the TMA tag and tried to get us to communicate with one another about our ďonce in a life timeĒ hunt. One would have thought I was asking to sleep with their wifeís. Out of the 98, 17 got back with me and only two have sent video's. This is hardly enough to make a film. So this is my last request.

    I really thought this would have worked. I had been waiting 14 years for this tag and then once I got it, I had a hard time finding out info. It was like I was asking for someoneís secret sheep spot. I was hoping to gather information from these hunters to pass on to ADF&G and to fellow sheep hunters. Needless to say it looks like I just pissed off the $500 fee to allow our hunt to be put on film with the intent to make a profit. Lesson learned.

    Anyway, like I mentioned before I hunted the Robertson Glacier area and will gladly past on some useful and much needed hunting info on this area. I donít think I will draw this tag again and if I do, I doubt that by passing on this information will keep me from being successful in the future.

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    Why limit it to just the TMA?

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    Default TMA

    My thought on this is/was that this is the most sought after sheep tag in Alaska with over 3000 hunters putting into it each year and how it would be great to share info.

    I understand that 99% of the sheep hunters don't want to give up their spot, but with tag that at best you only can get every 4 years I thought us sheep hunters would talk with one another. I was wrong!

    So after finding out it was hard to get any good information about the TMA area I thought it would be great to film our 2007 season and let the (100) 2008 tag winners and other sheep hunters see what the TMA is all about.

    I still am going to contact two more 2007 TMA hunters and see about getting their film and if this doesn't work I would be willing to include any TMA sheep hunts.

    I know I really limited my chances on making this film, but I still think it would be seller.

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    First off....Sounds like an interesting idea with the video. Good luck with getting a few more videos. Unfortunately even if a hunter never intends or may not ever get back to a spot, many are unwilling to give an information out to anyone let alone for an information video.

    What is up with the $500 dollar fee? Is that for a video crew or for some kind of commercial use permit???

    Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    I understand that 99% of the sheep hunters don't want to give up their spot, but with tag that at best you only can get every 4 years I thought us sheep hunters would talk with one another. I was wrong!
    Even in an area that is tough to draw, a lot of time, money and effort go into hunting selecting and getting into the hunting location and even if the hunt is unsuccessful that is valuable information. I think that is why people are reluctant to give up the info. Even in a drawing area there is tough competition for a truly exceptional ram.

    There are a few guides who specialize in the TMA, have you approached any of them about getting film from their hunts?

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    Default Tv321

    Troy,

    When you first came up with this idea, I posted about the need for commercial filming permits in certain areas and also the laws that govern what you could show on a commercial video. Your idea ticked off a lot of transporters who did not want their landing areas/locations filmed and documented (in a commercial video), and neither did they want to be included in any footage. By law, as I told you initially, anyone being filmed would also have to sign a release form. And if they did not, you could not legally use that footage in a commercial production.

    I seem to recall you mentioning before that the proceeds of this video would go in part to the new AK chapter of Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife, but I may have that wrong. Also I recall you started up a Matsu chapter of the Moose Federation. Just an observation on my part, but shouldn't you have worked out where the proceeds from this will go prior to asking for video footage from others?

    Also, when hunters who were awarded a TMA permit received whatever you mailed them, it kinda ticked a lot of them off. They were asking, "Who is this guy?" "Is he legit?" "Does he just want to make money off our footage?" I'm not sure exactly what you said in your letters to them, but I for one would like to see you post verbatim what you sent out to all those hunters via mail. I would also like you to post your full name here if you are gonna ask for help like this from so many.
    Sincerely,

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Great post Mark. Thanks for filling in some of the background on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Troy,

    When you first came up with this idea, I posted about the need for commercial filming permits in certain areas and also the laws that govern what you could show on a commercial video. Your idea ticked off a lot of transporters who did not want their landing areas/locations filmed and documented (in a commercial video), and neither did they want to be included in any footage. By law, as I told you initially, anyone being filmed would also have to sign a release form. And if they did not, you could not legally use that footage in a commercial production.

    I do recall your post and this is why I spent the time and effort to make sure I was doing it right. I spent the $500, got the license to make this film. So I did everything that was legally required to allow this project to go forward. As far as pissing people off, this was not the intent of my project and if people didnít want to participate they didnít need to. So as you can see I didnít get much help, so it is my loss. I tried; in fact, I am still trying to make this happen. If it fails, no big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    I seem to recall you mentioning before that the proceeds of this video would go in part to the new AK chapter of Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife, but I may have that wrong. Also I recall you started up a Matsu chapter of the Moose Federation. Just an observation on my part, but shouldn't you have worked out where the proceeds from this will go prior to asking for video footage from others?
    I am part of the Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife and the MATSU chapter of the Alaska Moose Federation. I am also part of the Turkey Federation, the RMEF, past member of FNAWS, Grouse, NRA, AOC, etc.. I am sure I am missing a few but what is your point here? Yes I did throw out a few ideas on where the money might go, but nothing was set. Before I made on cent from this project I would have asked those that were involved for feedback as to where they though the funds would best be spent. This information would have been on the cover so those of you that wished to purchase this DVD would have known where the money was going. I have no hidden agenda, just bad planning on my part!

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post


    Also, when hunters who were awarded a TMA permit received whatever you mailed them, it kinda ticked a lot of them off. They were asking, "Who is this guy?" "Is he legit?" "Does he just want to make money off our footage?" I'm not sure exactly what you said in your letters to them, but I for one would like to see you post verbatim what you sent out to all those hunters via mail. I would also like you to post your full name here if you are gonna ask for help like this from so many.
    Sincerely,
    Here is a copy of the first letter that was sent out about 2/19/07.

    Congratulations to all 98 of us!

    I am sending you this letter to say congratulations on getting a rare opportunity to have an outstanding chance at get a trophy ram (40+) this year. I have put in for this unit for the last 14 years and it finally happened! I am going to do everything it takes to have an enjoyable, safe, and successful hunt.

    In order to make this happen, I NEED your help! I am asking each of you to email me at TV321@excite.com, so I can start a TMA sheep hunterís email list.

    At this time I do not need any of the information requested below. I only want your name, age, M or F, and email address.

    On April 15th, I will send an email out to all who have responded. At this point we should all have our hunting plans started if not finished and we can then start talking about sheep hunting.

    Could each of you please answer the following questions?

    Before the hunt
    1. What are the dates of your hunt?
    2. Where are you hunting (drainage, river, mountain)?
    3. How will you get there (walking, air taxi, ATV, horse?)
    4. Do you plan on getting in shape before the hunt? If so how?
    5. Do you take a spotting scope? Rifle size?
    6. Rifle or Bow?
    7. Shall we have a contest? $10 entry fee, largest ram wins?

    After the hunt.
    7. Successful? What are the measurements, both right and left bases and length?
    8. How many sheep did you see? # of Full curls?
    9. Please send a photo. (Yes bring a camera) and would you like your photo published? You name published?
    10. Tell me about your hunt, pros and conís
    11. Did you see other hunters? Other wildlife?
    12. On what day of the hunt did you take you ram?

    Here are my plans to date.

    I will be flying out with 40-mile Air at the beginning of the season for a 12 day hunt. (I would prefer to hunt the first 12 days of September, but my brotherís work schedule as of today will not allow this). I am taking a bow and rifle on this hunt. I understand I picked the hardest area in the TMA to hunt, so I am not sure I can get close enough with a bow. I am flying into the Robertson Glacier area (East Side). I plan to start working out March 1st. I will take it easy the first month so I donít cause an injury, but July I will be walking around with a 90 to 100lb pack. I backpack hunt, which means I donít set up a camp. This allows me to see more country and hopefully more sheep. I take Mountain House meals to eat, one a day for dinner. I eat oatmeal for breakfast and snack on energy bars, jerky, dried fruit in between meals. I do have a spotting scope and would highly recommend one.

    I see that 7 Non-residents drew and 8 (maybe more) have drawn a party hunt. This means the rest of you (70+) are single hunters. Please use this forum as a means to find a hunting partner. I have hunted by myself before and trust me it is better to go with someone not only for safety reasons, but the overall enjoyment of the hunt is much better if you have someone to share it with.

    A major concern of mine is having other hunters in the same area. Nothing ruins a hunt quicker then finding out 4 days into a hunt that another party is hunting the same area. I am not looking to steal anyoneís hunting area. I just want to make sure I donít have 10 hunters dropped off at mine. Do you want to get dropped off with other hunters already in the same area? 40-mile Air will only place one hunting party per landing area, but this doesnít mean other air taxi services arenít using these same strips. These operators donít get together and see who is hunting when and where. So it is up to us to insure this doesnít happen. There are a lot of drop off areas to hunt and with some planning we should all have our own little area. If not, the hunting parties should be able to talk about splitting up an area or checking to see if another area is open well before hunting season.

    The hunters that take the field after the start of season will be hunting in areas that most likely have already had hunters in them. This DOES NOT lessen your chances on bagging a big sheep, in fact, the later you go the less you will have to work for them. (Maybe!) Wouldnít it be nice to have a talk with this party before the hunt and after the hunt to see what area they hunted and which area they did not hunt? More than likely they will be able to point you the right direction on a few rams. Doing this will only increase the hunting success % for resident hunters.

    So what am I going to do with all this information? I plan to write an article about the 2007 TMA sheep hunting season, with plans to get it published. Wouldnít it be great to read such an article this year before we all go on our once-in-a- lifetime hunt? Do you have any clue as to what happened last year? Do you know how many 40ís where taken? I donít!

    Not only will our hunting experiences help other enjoy future hunts, this information should be helpful to Fish and Game. If you have any other ideas, questions, or comments please send them my way.

    I can be reached via phone 907-746-5548, email tv321@excite.com or mail:

    Troy Vincent
    4432 N Heaton rd.
    Palmer AK 99645

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    Default Sounds like you have alot of homework...

    Before you talk about "funds for the sheep" you might want to investigate how that can be logistically and legally done. If any of this endeavor goes to a personal profit it should be stated before any hard feelings (read: legal action) occur.

    It's tough enough up there just for the hunters, adding a camera man seems like insult to injury-literally.

    Maybe fellas would donate their film footage from previous sheep hunts all over the state to be put in a video release to raise funds?
    The idea has merit but has obstacles too.

    Just my opinion....

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    Default Thanks Troy

    Troy,

    I sincerely thank you for posting the letter you sent out, and your name.

    With all due respect, your letter is rather naive in that you expected more of a response from the recipients. I would be interested to see the letter you sent asking for video footage. I know many private pilots who don't even want their N-numbers shown in pictures, as those can be looked up and tied to their name, and overall as Chisana and others pointed out, most sheep hunters and those who fly in sheep hunters keep all location information very close to the vest and don't want that info to be published in any way. That was the major fault of your idea I think.

    I like the idea of putting sheep hunters together in a fashion to exchange certain information about gear and optics and workout routines, but that is already done here on this and other forums. And I love the idea of getting more info to ADFG staff on field conditions, # of hunters, wildlife seen etc.

    Surely you would need to figure out beforehand where any proceeds from a video would go, and I agree that was bad planning on your part. (My point on that, which you asked about, was just that hunters would want/need to know where any proceeds were going, if they were going to AMF or SFW or AOC etc. You are still asking for video footage but you still haven't worked out that aspect of it. Neither have you said exactly what amount of any profits you would keep.)

    It could be that some guides like Matt Snyder who work the TMA may be interested in providing footage as a win/win kind of scenario to promote their guiding business, but again I highly doubt they would want you publishing location information. You could certainly contact him.

    Did you ask Leif when he or Randy flew you out what they thought of your idea? What did they say? Did they give you permission to film them for commercial purposes and document their landing areas? Were you going to give out gps coordinates of landing areas and kill sites?

    You might note that I responded in another thread about your bashing ADFG here on this forum on a continual basis. I really don't think that is conducive to cooperatively working with your own area bios and in forming alliances within ADFG in which you could indeed perhaps find a way to dedicate some funds toward sheep mgmt. Lots of folks read these forums by the way...including some ADFG staff. You might keep that in mind, and I mean that sincerely as genuine advice in order to further your own agenda on sheep mgmt.
    Best,

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    Troy,

    Thanks for providing more information on your letter to TMA permit winners. I can see why you had so few responses. One could interpret your February 19 letter as a fishing expedition to get information on where and when other people were hunting to help with your own planning. Sorry to be cynical, but one could easily reach that conclusion based on the letter. Also, you opine the lack of available harvest information from prior years. That information is readily available from ADF&G. I think seeing other hunters is just a part of most of the sheep drawing hunts, especially if you go early. When I had my Delta permit, I saw more hunters than I've seen on all my other sheep hunts combined.

    So did you end up killing a ram on your hunt? Were you happy with the work 40 mile did for you? Were you happy with the number of sheep you saw? Did you see many other hunters?

  17. #17

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    http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index...harvest.lookup

    I think most of the information you sought is right here. Fish and Game can see pretty close where the sheep were harvested using the GMU, Major, and Minor areas. 3 rams over 40" were harvested, 38 total with 35.5" average length, 12.89" bases, and 8.65 years old. I'm sure they can use more information from hunters, but if you don't hunt it every year (nobody but guides can), your observations couldn't be compared to other years anyway.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

  18. #18

    Default 2006

    In 2006 there were 9 rams over 40", 40 total with an average horn length of 36.76", bases of 12.92", and 9.35 years old. TOO 602,603, and 606 were where the big guys were. Now just find out where that was.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forester View Post
    What is up with the $500 dollar fee? Is that for a video crew or for some kind of commercial use permit???

    Yes it was for the permit to allow film footage to be used for commercial uses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    Troy,

    Thanks for providing more information on your letter to TMA permit winners. I can see why you had so few responses. One could interpret your February 19 letter as a fishing expedition to get information on where and when other people were hunting to help with your own planning. Sorry to be cynical, but one could easily reach that conclusion based on the letter.
    I am not wanting to debate my letter, but please re-read the letter. In particular the part where I ask I only wanted their names, age, sex and email address. In fact you can see I had my plans already and shared them with 98 strangers, so I was the one bearing all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    Also, you opine the lack of available harvest information from prior years. That information is readily available from ADF&G.
    I am missing the part where I mention a lack of harvest information. I am well aware of the data the ADF&G produces. A little outdate, but it is still there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    So did you end up killing a ram on your hunt? Were you happy with the work 40 mile did for you? Were you happy with the number of sheep you saw? Did you see many other hunters?
    Yes, both my step-brother and I took a sheep. Not the 40" ram I had dreamed about. We shot brothers that were at 34", so we are the ones to blame for the lower averages. We hunted 8 days before we saw a ram. We did see 38 sheep in total including the 2 we harvested.

    I thought Leif was very professional and overall nice guy. They did what they where hired to do and that was to be an air taxi. I did not rely on them to find sheep for me. I also picked an area that Leif only flies into, so we didn't see any other hunters. We did see the nightly flight (via cub) by one of the guides looking for sheep, at least he wasn't looking in our area.

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