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Thread: New Hunting Areas

  1. #1
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    Default New Hunting Areas

    This was brought up to me by someone on this forum, so I am taking it farther.

    OK folks, we are faced with a real delima. The state is growing, our numbers are increasing. We are running out of places to hunt. The areas we are currently using has reached a point of saturation. Why are we locked out of one of the largest areas of the state reachable by the road system. Why can we not hunt along the pipeline corridor with a firearm within five miles of the haul road, above the Yukon? Is someone more likely to shoot the pipe North of the Yukon than they are south of the Yukon? OOps, We all know what happened south of the river. But I'm not going to shoot the pipe, are you?

    Currently the area is controlled by a few miners and locals that live in the area, and they have the ear of the legislature to keep this locked up. There is roads and mining trails going back a long way from the Dalton Highway, why can't we use them? The people of Alaska need to talk to their legislature and let them know how you feel about this.

    Putting porposals in to the game board to open the areas is not the way to do this. It will take legislative action to open the area along the Dalton Highway. That area has been closed by law since the highway was built.

    We the public need to put forth a public outcry about this unreasonable approach to keep hunting in check. There is mining trails and other roads that should be totally accessible to the general public instead of to a select few.

    Senator Seekins tried to get this opened a few years ago. Why did the rest of the legislator say no? Because the general public did not speak up and let them know how we feel. Especially you folks down in the Anchorage area, and the Valley as you go farther and farther afield to find good locations, you are moving into areas where their is already a good number of hunters there. Yet this huge area North Of the Yukon remains off limits to everyone but archers, why?

    You want to get behind a movement. You want to make noise about something? This is an area where you can get something done. Let's start a movement here and get this huge chunk of Alaska opened up so we all can access it. Why leave it restricted to a few?
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
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    On the surface it sounds like a good idea to me. I would like to hear more opinions about it. Time to do some research and maybe dig up Seekins proposal and go from there. I am all for more access in most instances.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Default more

    I would like to hear some more opinions too. Should be open it or not. I myself would like to see some more access but Im not sure totally open is a good idea. Maybe a seasonal opening for snow machines or something like that. But this is a good place to start.

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    Default Not only no but

    Hell No! This was beat to death when Seekins tried. Theres no way to control what would happen up there, new trails everywhere, over crowding, no place to park your trucks and trailers so they would be all over the road.

    It needs to stay just the way it is, theres plenty of places to hunt! Theres already places to ATV, Places to Fly and places to walk.

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    Default easy hunting

    yeah lets open it up but give everyone 50 cal machine guns, that way we wipe out the herds fast and easy. Leave this area the way it is, if you are to fat and old to walk the 5 miles then stay in your vehicle and use a camera....

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    Before this thread goes totally whacko on us I think we need to clarify. We are talking about only a certain distance north of the bridge right? At least I am. NOT way up north on the tundra.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Most of the mining area is south of the brooks Range. That is where most of the access is. Also the Gates of the Artic is next to the highway near the Attagun pass area. That would always be off limits. Vehicles could be restricted to the existing trails just to get into the areas. After snow falls, why should there be any restrictions for snow machines. The trappers that currently trap in the area don't have any restrictions, they run where ever they please.

    I'm also not talking about going five miles from the road either, I'm talking about going twenty or thirty miles. There is also a lot of people like me that are not fat or lazy, we are disabled. We can not hike five miles, due to service connected disabilities, or other problems. As my son says, "Some are just old". You want to completely block us from enjoying the outdoor experience? this would also help to prevent overcrowding.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

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    Right now I can start off from the south side of the Yukon with a snow machine and go as far as I want, with no restrictions, except the Gates Of The Artic, and private lands. If I wanted to I could go up then cross the Dalton, then continue on east, legally. So what is the big deal. After all this is a rather biased restriction. It only applies to people that would access it from the road system.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

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    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default thats it

    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    Most of the mining area is south of the brooks Range. That is where most of the access is. Also the Gates of the Artic is next to the highway near the Attagun pass area. That would always be off limits. Vehicles could be restricted to the existing trails just to get into the areas. After snow falls, why should there be any restrictions for snow machines. The trappers that currently trap in the area don't have any restrictions, they run where ever they please.

    I'm also not talking about going five miles from the road either, I'm talking about going twenty or thirty miles. There is also a lot of people like me that are not fat or lazy, we are disabled. We can not hike five miles, due to service connected disabilities, or other problems. As my son says, "Some are just old". You want to completely block us from enjoying the outdoor experience? this would also help to prevent overcrowding.

    1. No one would stay on existing trails, it would start that way, then a bou or moose is shot 300 yrds off the trail, people will drive thier wheelers over to get it and a new trail begins.

    2. 30 miles, yea right, some will attempted those distances but most wont!!Human nature to do no more than is neccessary

    3. If you want the same previlages as the troopers or residents of wiesman than move there

    4. If you cant walk you can fly, A wheeler will beat you up a lot more than a plane ride in.

    5. Have you been hunting for the past x number of years? I bet you have so no one is preventing you from enjoying the outdoor experience

    6. If things are growing as fast as you say and there is no place left to hunt and there is no game left on the so called over crowed areas then opening this up wont help. Everyone will leave the gameless overly crowed areas to hunt inside the corridor and then that becomes overly crowed.

    7. No one is left out of the picture the way it is. You can walk, if you cant walk then fly.

    Your arguement is why should you and others be excluded from using that land the way you want. Well then why should only the resident of Wrangells be able to hunt sheep within the park? Shouldnt it be opened to everyone?

    IT NEEDS TO STAY THE WAY IT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Default

    Fortunately, you have the right to express your openion, and I can express mine. You can say what you want to and so can I. You can work to keep it closed, but I can also work to get it opened. And we can agree to disagree.

    I've heard the same argument used in different areas of the state. Like when the entertie was put in from Anchorage to Fairbanks. The right of way was supposed to ruin the area due to the new hunting pressure it was going to bring. When the parks highway was built, some people said the same thing about that, and wanted restrictions put in place then along the road. Withoput restrictions people will decimate the herds all along the road, and kill everything near the road. Did not happen. Oh, it did open up some new hunting opportunities. Right off the bat I killed a nice bull just below Healy, before the park on my second trip to Anchorage. But the area has not been devastated. Neither would the Dalton.

    But progress is inevitable. It's just a matter of time till roads cross the area anyway. As the price of metals goes up and more and more big mining interest get involved, the area will be opened. So it is just stalling the inevitable.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

  11. #11

    Default new hunting areas

    This area used to be open to hunting back in the 80's we used track riggs to hunt south of Cold Foot off of the old Hickel Highway you could still see the old trail. That was until Tom Walker the log cabin building/photographer guy from Homer complained about caribou gut piles along the road above the Atigun Pass that were left in pullouts from hunters using snowmachines to get them and then drag them back to the warm truck to clean them out and leaving them for him to see. He just put in a proposal to the BOG to limit off-road vehicles and now one knew about it or bothered to show up at the meeting and it was closed!!!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    I've heard the same argument used in different areas of the state. Like when the entertie was put in from Anchorage to Fairbanks. The right of way was supposed to ruin the area due to the new hunting pressure it was going to bring. When the parks highway was built, some people said the same thing about that, and wanted restrictions put in place then along the road. Withoput restrictions people will decimate the herds all along the road, and kill everything near the road. Did not happen. Oh, it did open up some new hunting opportunities. Right off the bat I killed a nice bull just below Healy, before the park on my second trip to Anchorage. But the area has not been devastated. Neither would the Dalton.
    Can you say Rex or Ferry Trail? Your not kidding anyone, look what has happened to the Rex, now it looks like it will be shut down, only to be used by permit once the ground is frozen. I used to hunt there 15 years ago, sure there was some traffic but the area is so large you really didnt see many hunters. Go there today and its a zoo, same thing will happen if you open up north.

    If the Rex or Ferry is still that good then there is no reason to mess with N of the Yukon

    Sure change is in the air, its always in the air. There will be those who want it opened, those who want it to remain closed, time will tell.

    Even if I supported opening it up (which I dont) you can be that the tour companys like Princes wont want it to happen. What tourist is going to want to see a bunch of trucks, trailers, camps, meat poles tons of hunters and Trash all the way to Prudoe? Tourist means money and lots of it. And money always talks

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    One thing about tourism, with an economy that is currently in recession, tourism is going to be hurt. If this country goes into a depression, which can happen, (hopefully not) you will see tourism fall flat. So I would not count on tourism too much. Princess tried to stop all hunting along the Dalton four years ago, with in 1/4 mile of the highway. It failed, when under hard questioning from the game board, the person making the proposal admitted that Princess Tours was behind the proposal, and had convinced him to turn it in.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

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    Default Open one side..

    I'd like to see more land opened for hunting. Even if one side was opened and the other side remained as is. Maybe the addition of more trails/areas would prevent Rex/Ferry from being overused and spread out hunters. The Dalton is mismanaged; there's no reason NOT to allow firearms hunting on the non-pipeline side, if that's the justification for not allowing firearms. It is elitist to keep it open for bow and not for firearm, dig up Seekins bill and post it and have a look at it.

    Tim

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    Default elitist????

    You are right, it is elitist. Blackpowder should be opened for all firearms or whatever you want to use, guns, tanks, broken bottles everything goes.
    Yeah change is coming so let me be first so when there is nothing left for my grandchildren I can say "I remember when there was caribou on the haul road, but I shot the last one from the comfort of my truck, now that was hunting". Christ! look at what you are writting and thinking about doing. Open up the haul road for all hunting and full access. That is really what you want so you can make it easier for yourself. Allow guns because your stalking ability sucks. Leave it alone. Once again if you are to old and Fat then just fish. I am getting older and have service related disabilities also but I do not ask for just a little more because..... And yes I am getting fatter also but I still get out and hunt without any special privileges.

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    Default Changes

    so your reasoning is that we are due for a major resession so we wont have tourism. So sense there wont be tourism there wont be an enfluence by the big companys like Princes to keep things the way they are. Maybe you need to lay off some of your meds.

    Ive hunted up there since the early 90's, made many a phone call, wrote many a letter asking about more pull outs, or how about some rest areas, maybe a porta potty or two. The answer was always no, theres no money for that and so on. But as soon as the big tourist buses started heading up north guess what? Rest Areas with porta potties started springing up, next thing you know the road is getting paved. Now who do you think what that? sure wasnt the truckers!, the main user of that road, Big dollar tourist companys thats who.

    Since your wanting more areas to hunt in why not open the some of our parks to hunting? Or why do we have any other type of hunting other long gun? Why have bow only area's why have walkin in only area's, why muzzle loader only hunts

    Talking about being an elitest

    Funny how things get labled as MIS MANAGED when it doesnt fit in our agenda's

    Maybe there was a good reason some of you were booted off the AC

  17. #17
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    Default The Big Picture

    Our org strongly opposed the Seekins bill (SB 85) to open the entire Dalton corridor to atv/orv access and we will continue to oppose any such bill.

    It is likely that some areas north of the Yukon can be opened to atv/orv use with proper planning beforehand and compromise among the atv/orv community, but I don't really see that happening. The Seekins bill would basically have given free reign to motorized access along the entire Dalton corridor without any caveats on what trails would be designated, what enforcement would be present, what fines and/or penalites for violations etc. One of our main gripes was that it "put the cart before the horse" in that in required BLM and other agencies to draw up a land use plan after the fact. There was no mention in the bill of what particular trails would be designated, if users would be allowed to go off trail to retrieve game etc. Also keep in mind that the overwhelming public opinion at the various meetings held on this was opposed to opening the corridor to atv/orv access. And not just among non-hunters, but among hunters as well.

    One of the main stumbling blocks I've encountered in trying to work with hunters who want to open more areas to motorized access is to just compromise on certain things, the main one being that we can designate and even maintain certain trails if we keep users on those specific trails only. But the overwhelming majority of groups who espouse for more access want to also go off trail to "retrieve" game, and that is the biggest sticking point and also the biggest loophole that allows the spiderwebbing of trails over time everywhere.

    If you look at the big picture, you'll get a better understanding of the fears of wildlife managers on more/easier access as well. For example, look at the regs they came out with when the Pogo mine up the Goodpaster went in. Here we have a new "road" that many have been saying we need, yet the Delta Advisory Committee and ADFG bios pushed to ban atv access along this road because of fears that too many atv hunters would inundate the area and spread out from there and take too many moose and wreak havoc on the tundra. After the mine is closed, the plans call for a significant portion of the road to be "reclaimed" and motorized access restricted as well. Up north the fears are the same, that if we had widescale motorized access that all we'd be doing is turning that caribou hunt into another draw hunt after a while. Not to mention the long-term scarring and habitat damage.

    The notion that we need to "spread out the pressure" and "open more areas to motorized access" is for the most part imo a short-sighted one if access isn't restricted to just certain designated trails. And even then we know that we don't have the enforcement presence to keep users in line and that it isn't just a small percentage of "bad apples" that are breaking the rules. So over time these other areas become just as congested and abused and the game populations hammered as any other place with widescale motorized access. I've seen it first hand off the Taylor Hwy and have been complaining about that for years. The AC in that area also pushed to make the Ladue Controlled Use Area, but so many hunters are disobeying the rule to stay on certain trails in the CUA that it is a farce. Even the management reports speak to this, saying the biggest fears are the overwhelming amount of hunters with newer atvs that can travel pretty much anywhere, cross rivers even, and get into areas that were formerly refugia for game animals. You fly over the area and see all the new "trails" and it is mind boggling. Then we have the atv community basically fighting with the orv community when SUSVs or other heavy tracked vehicles are used that completely scar the land for decades. Of course, many sit back and say these "scars" are no big deal, just progress and all that.

    Also keep in mind that these lands off the Dalton we are talking about aren't "closed" to hunting. They are just closed to motorized access during certain times of the year, which is not at all the same thing.

    I think that if all user groups worked together and cooperated and compromised that we could indeed open more areas to atv/orv access on designated and maintained trails only. But it would take a lot of education, stiff penalties/fines for violations, more policing of our own ranks, more enforcement presence during hunting seasons, yearly cooperative efforts to raise monies and volunteers to fix/maintain trails (bridging, geoblocks etc) and all that. It isn't as simple as just "opening up" more areas to motorized access.

    PS, Tim (tccak71), the Seekins bill if passed would still not have changed the regs that govern the use of firearms within five miles of the pipeline. ATV users would still have had to travel beyond the five-mile boundary before hunting with firearm.

    Here is a link to the text of SB 85:
    http://www.legis.state.ak.us/PDF/24/Bills/SB0085A.PDF

    Note that there isn't much "text" in this bill; and therefore there was no compromise at all from Seekins and other hunting orgs on what they wanted. It would have included the entire Dalton corridor.

    Best to all,

  18. #18

    Default

    Why not make it available for atv use to those that draw permits to hunt that area? Make them register their atv or vehicle prior to hunting for those areas only. Thats the only way I would see opening up more access, to open it for all hunters would be a disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKFred View Post
    You are right, it is elitist. Blackpowder should be opened for all firearms or whatever you want to use, guns, tanks, broken bottles everything goes.
    Yeah change is coming so let me be first so when there is nothing left for my grandchildren I can say "I remember when there was caribou on the haul road, but I shot the last one from the comfort of my truck, now that was hunting". Christ! look at what you are writting and thinking about doing. Open up the haul road for all hunting and full access. That is really what you want so you can make it easier for yourself. Allow guns because your stalking ability sucks. Leave it alone. Once again if you are to old and Fat then just fish. I am getting older and have service related disabilities also but I do not ask for just a little more because..... And yes I am getting fatter also but I still get out and hunt without any special privileges.
    AK Fred, I'd like to see more motorized access, but that isn't my beef with the Dalton (plus were talking SOUTH of the BROOKS, not the entire highway). So where can we put in new ATV trails withoug pissing up a rope? When and where will people be happy with a new trail system? Conserve it all and use nothing?

    My main issue with the Dalton is why are firearms banned? What is the rationale? I don't mind walking in at all, if my partner had the time off that's what we'd be doing this August. Why do bow hunters have a special advantage?

    Do YOU walk five miles or shoot the first caribou you see off the side of the road? BTW, sounds like hunting with a bow IS a special privilege. Personally, Iím not a bow hunter and I really donít care to be. If I truly wanted to hunt up there within the cooridor Iíd play the game. Why not open ONE SIDE for firearms? What is the rationale? Bow hunters have EXCLUSIVE ACCESS on both sides of the highway for hundreds of miles. Can't bow hunters hunt ANYWHERE that rifles are allowed? Where is my RIFLE ONLY access? Nowhere.



    Tim

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    Default a quick note

    I agree that hunting with rifles within the 5 mile corridor is not a good idea. I also think that just opening it up is a bad idea. However I think that when snowfall is significant enough to safely use a snow machine I think there should be SOME open areas that you could travel. One good example of this is the Quartz creek trail in the White Mountains. To the east of the trail is winter use only access (I think after November sometime you can travel to the east of the trail with motorized vehicles, but its just a guess). It seems that the ATV community is following this rule very well and there are no new trails to the east of quartz creek trail, at least significant ones. However to the west it is crazy! Trails everywhere, and with each year newer ones seem to pop up after Moose season. This I don't agree with and think it avoided up the Dalton. But I also think that with proper planning winter use of portions of the Dalton could be a nice compromise. I personally don't want to hunt caribou up there, but I would love to get out and see some country. Guess I need to buy a good pair of back country skis for now and get to it.

    Cheers

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