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Thread: Carry in Denali?

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    Default Carry in Denali?

    Just wondering about why Denali National Park does not allow you to carry a firearm inside the park. If Alaska is a concealed carry state, why not the park? My wife and I have hiked quite deep into the park and I always feel quite vulnerable. I never go out without either my .45 or .357 anywhere else. Just curious as to how they consider that you are much safer inside the park than outside. Do they not realize you become a part of the food chain and not necessarily at the top?

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    Member Rick P's Avatar
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    Cinak

    You can not carry in any national park, which is why I will not set foot in one! Apparently the feds can not even follow there own rules see the much tattered and abused constitution specifically the second amendment. I write several letters of protest every spring but they situation shows no sign of changing.

    A suggestion try the Denali hwy area just as beautiful a lot less people and you can do as you please without a governmental colonoscopy or having to fill out pages of paperwork before hitting the trail.
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    Member mit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinak View Post
    Just wondering about why Denali National Park does not allow you to carry a firearm inside the park. If Alaska is a concealed carry state, why not the park? My wife and I have hiked quite deep into the park and I always feel quite vulnerable. I never go out without either my .45 or .357 anywhere else. Just curious as to how they consider that you are much safer inside the park than outside. Do they not realize you become a part of the food chain and not necessarily at the top?

    Not picken nits but I think it is loaded firearms? If the court rules in
    gun owners favor that federal law should be gone immediately!
    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick P View Post
    Cinak

    You can not carry in any national park, which is why I will not set foot in one! Apparently the feds can not even follow there own rules see the much tattered and abused constitution specifically the second amendment. I write several letters of protest every spring but they situation shows no sign of changing.

    A suggestion try the Denali hwy area just as beautiful a lot less people and you can do as you please without a governmental colonoscopy or having to fill out pages of paperwork before hitting the trail.

    I'm with you on this one! I don't set foot in Denali. I been there, took the tour that was enough.

    Personally,
    I don't fit in with hippies, animal right activists and people that don't speak english. That's Denali in a nutshell.
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  5. #5

    Default Federal Property...

    Basically Denali is federal U.S.A. property, not Alaska state property so federal laws apply. The same thing applies in other states with federal parks. Another point: you can carry in Alaska but once you go into a post office or other federal property with a firearm, loaded or not, your gun rights basically don't exist and you have committed a felony. That's why I think we need a national right to carry law that applies everywhere in the USA.

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    Default There is an effort afoot, to change that.

    The reason that firearms are restricted in National Parks is that they are protecting the animals, and could care less about YOUR safety. Apparently, these restrictions are different in each park.

    According to a recent article in the Anchorage Daily Worker, a group of National legislators, including Ted Stevens, are trying to get the Park Service to change their regulations and Allow people to carry firearms in National Parks for protection. I hope the effort succeeds.

    I'm sorry, I don't remember which day, or which section of the paper it was in.

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    Member Bushpilot's Avatar
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    Here is a link to the letter and the text of the letter:

    http://www.nraila.org/Media/PDFs/kempthorne_ltr.pdf

    United States Senate
    WASHINGTON, DC 20510

    December 14, 2007

    The Honorable Dirk Kempthorne
    Secretary
    Department of the Interior
    1849 C Street, NW.
    Washington DC 20240

    Dear Secretary Kempthorne:

    We write today concerning a longstanding effort to have the National
    Park
    Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service remove their prohibitions on
    law-abiding citizens from transporting and carrying firearms on lands
    managed by these agencies.
    We appeal to you on this matter in the interest of Second Amendment
    rights
    and consistency in
    firearms policy across federal public land management agencies.

    As you know, 36 CFR 2.4, applicable to the National Park Service, and
    50 CFR
    27.42, applicable to the Fish and Wildlife Service, prohibits
    individuals
    from possessing a firearm on lands managed by those agencies - even
    citizens
    with valid concealed weapons permits.

    These regulations infringe on the rights of law-abiding gun owners, who
    wish
    to transport and carry firearms on or across these lands. Also, you
    will
    note that other federal land management agencies, such as the Bureau of
    Land
    Management and the Forest Service allow transporting and carrying of
    firearms on these lands in accordance with the laws of the host state.
    These
    inconsistencies in firearms regulations for public lands are confusing,
    burdensome, and unnecessary.

    For these reasons, we support an exception to 36 CFR 2.4 and 50 CFR
    27.42 to
    allow law-abiding citizens to transport and carry firearms consistent
    with
    state law where the National Park Service's sites and the National
    Wildlife
    Refuges are located. Such regulatory changes would respect the Second
    Amendment rights of law-abiding gun owners, while providing a
    consistent
    application of state weapons laws across all land ownership boundaries.

    We appreciate the opportunity to share our concerns with you. Please
    treat
    this letter in
    conformance with all applicable procedural rules and ethical
    guidelines.

    Sincerely,

    Senator Mike Crapo

    Senator Max Baucus

    Senator Larry Craig

    Senator Tim Johnson

    Senator Jim Inhofe

    Senator Jon Tester

    Senator David Vitter

    Senator Mark Pryor

    Senator Gordon Smith

    Senator Blanche Lincoln

    Senator Orrin Hatch

    Senator Byron Dorgan

    Senator Norm Coleman

    Senator Ben Nelson

    Senator Tom Coburn

    Senator Jim Webb

    Senator Judd Gregg

    Senator Lisa Murkowski

    Senator John Ensign

    Senator John Sununu

    Senator Ted Stevens

    Senator Robert Bennett

    Senator Saxby Chambliss

    Senator Thad Cochran

    Senator Johnny Isakson

    Senator John Bunning

    Senator Wayne Allard

    Senator John Thune

    Senator Chuck Grassley

    Senator Bob Corker

    Senator Trent Lott

    Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison

    Senator Pat Roberts

    Senator Mel Martinez

    Senator John Cornyn

    Senator Richard Shelby

    Senator Chuck Hagel

    Senator Lindsey Graham

    Senator Elizabeth Dole

    Senator Mike Enzi

    Senator John McCain

    Senator John Barrasso

    Senator Sam Brownback

    Senator Pete Domenici

    Senitor Jim DeMint

    Senator Jeff Sessions

    Senator Jon Kyl

  8. #8
    Member n0g0d's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick P View Post

    You can not carry in any national park, which is why I will not set foot in one!

    It is legal to carry firearms in several of AK's national parks including Kenai Fjords, Wrangell-St. Ellias and Gates of the Arctic.

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    Default

    What they dont know wont hurt them!

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    All,
    I'm writing this a.m. from my desk at the National Park Service. As with many things federal, the situation at Denali is a little more complicated that it first appears.

    For the "old" Alaska parks, the rules are like they are in the Lower 48. Firearms are illegal, but may be carried into or through the park if they are unloaded, cased and stored out of view (like in the trunk of a car). This applies in about one-third of Denali (roughly the road corridor, visitor centers and the congressionally designated wilderness), a total of about 2 million acres. It also applies in the portions of Glacier Bay and Katmai established before 1980, and the small historical parks in Sitka and Skagway.

    In the 4 million acres of Denali established in 1980, and in the additions to Katmai and Glacier Bay, and in the 10 "new" NPS units established at the same time (through the Alaska Lands Act), firearms are legal to carry. Loaded, operational, in your hands, etc. This is true even though some of them share the "national park" designation.

    In about 21 million acres (out of a total of 54 million acres managed by the NPS) sport hunting under state law is legal. These are the national preserves. They may be stand-alone preserves (such as the Noatak) or a preserve managed with an adjacent national park (such as Denali's 1.3 million acre preserve).

    And in many of the "new" national parks, subsistence hunting is allowed.

    Not to start a new string of commentary, but iIn any of the NPS Alaska units, it is OK to carry bear spray.

    The above information, and some additional details, are in a brochure at this address: http://www.nps.gov/aplic/firearms.pdf While this covers most situations, we recommend that if you're not sure of the rules for the area in which you're thinking about hunting or carrying a firearm, give a call to the local NPS unit and ask. You can pm me for contact info, or go to the "find a park" function on nps.gov

    John Quinley

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    Member stevelyn's Avatar
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    Default

    I stay away from Nazi Park Circus lands for that very reason.
    Now what ?

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    Thanks for the info John.

    Perry


    Quote Originally Posted by toofewweekends View Post
    All,
    I'm writing this a.m. from my desk at the National Park Service. As with many things federal, the situation at Denali is a little more complicated that it first appears.

    For the "old" Alaska parks, the rules are like they are in the Lower 48. Firearms are illegal, but may be carried into or through the park if they are unloaded, cased and stored out of view (like in the trunk of a car). This applies in about one-third of Denali (roughly the road corridor, visitor centers and the congressionally designated wilderness), a total of about 2 million acres. It also applies in the portions of Glacier Bay and Katmai established before 1980, and the small historical parks in Sitka and Skagway.

    In the 4 million acres of Denali established in 1980, and in the additions to Katmai and Glacier Bay, and in the 10 "new" NPS units established at the same time (through the Alaska Lands Act), firearms are legal to carry. Loaded, operational, in your hands, etc. This is true even though some of them share the "national park" designation.

    In about 21 million acres (out of a total of 54 million acres managed by the NPS) sport hunting under state law is legal. These are the national preserves. They may be stand-alone preserves (such as the Noatak) or a preserve managed with an adjacent national park (such as Denali's 1.3 million acre preserve).

    And in many of the "new" national parks, subsistence hunting is allowed.

    Not to start a new string of commentary, but iIn any of the NPS Alaska units, it is OK to carry bear spray.

    The above information, and some additional details, are in a brochure at this address: http://www.nps.gov/aplic/firearms.pdf While this covers most situations, we recommend that if you're not sure of the rules for the area in which you're thinking about hunting or carrying a firearm, give a call to the local NPS unit and ask. You can pm me for contact info, or go to the "find a park" function on nps.gov

    John Quinley
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

  13. #13
    Member mit's Avatar
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    Default Clear violation

    These laws are clear violations of the 2nd amendment.Like I said before, if the supreme court rules in favor of Gun owners this summer, these laws should be removed immediately! If our elected representatives and Bureaucrats don't move on it and drag there feet they should incur the wrath of the people.
    Tim

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    One of the things that gripes me is that if I have a loaded gun in my car and drive down the Parks, I will at some point become a criminal because I did not stop, unload my gun, and put it in the trunk or somewhere. Technically you are supposed to stop and do this. Unless there is an exception to this law that I am not aware of. So, for however many miles that is along the Parks we become criminals just for driving down the highway. sheesh...
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

  15. #15

    Default Progress

    The letter was signed by 47 out of 100 senators so that looks like progress. toofew was right. The regulations are confusing and I'm glad that 47 senators agree. Interestingly, I didn't see the names of any of the senators who are running for president.

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    Default From the park website

    Here's one of the questions on their FAQ page -

    11. Can I carry a gun or firearm to protect myself from bears?

    In general terms, you may not carry a firearm within the boundaries of Denali National Park . If you possess a firearm it cannot be carried on your person or in a backpack, etc. All firearms must be stored unloaded, broken down and placed out of sight, such as in the trunk of your vehicle. If contacted by a park ranger you must immediately declare that you have a firearm. Firearms are NOT needed for protection from bears! Secure storage for firearms MAY be available while you are in the park. Contact any park ranger for details or if you have questions concerning firearms.
    For questions regarding the use of firearms in Preserve lands and new park additions please contact a park ranger.
    Generally these lands are open to sport and/or subsistence hunting.

    I particularly enjoy the above statement about not needing a firearm for protection.

    My next question would be - if you are approached by a park ranger and you declared yourself armed, what would be the response/outcome? With the confusing "ok here, not ok there" I guess you could make the mistake.

  17. #17
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    Contrary to what is written in the warning on most Federal buildings it is not unlawful to carry a firearm into a Federal building. If you read the CFL it says it is unlawful to carry a firearm into a Federal building for illegal purposes. So if you are walking into an office to get a Federal subsistence hunting permit you can carry your rifle in with you and be perfectly legal. Jim

  18. #18
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    Default Firearms in the Post Office

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWoodsWalker View Post
    ... you can carry in Alaska but once you go into a post office or other federal property with a firearm, loaded or not, your gun rights basically don't exist and you have committed a felony...
    This is not true. The widely circulated rumor that you can't CCW in a Post Office is getting out of hand. Unless a state law specifical prohibits it, the post office is free for carry. Per federal law, a post office is exempted from general federal property laws, unless a law specifically states the post office as part of the law. Details can be found at http://www.handgunlaw.us/

    Specifically check Title 18 USC Sec. 930 and you will find the law that prohibits possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon in a federal facility. Then in subsection d of that rule, you'll find that this doesn't apply to "lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." So basically, you have to break another law before the fact that you are carrying a firearm in a federal facility becomes a crime.

    Note that they always use the phrase, "in a Federal facility". They don't say on federal property. These laws apply to being inside a federal building.

    Further, look at administrative note 39-I-4-410 and you'll see that it specifically states that these "Federal Laws do not apply to the Postal Service...". So they specifically exclude the post office from all of these rules. Proving yet again, that the break room at work is not a good place to get your info on federal firearms laws.

    Note... I ain't a lawyer. This post is MY opinion based on MY reading of the laws. You do your own reading and come to your own conclusion on what the law says.
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    Thanks for the post John, it is appreciated. Hopefully the law will be changed soon so that our rights are not restricted on these federal lands. In many national parks my concern is not about bears. Just looks at the jails in yosemite and yellowstone and some of the crimes ocurring in southern california and southwestern US parks.

    Quote Originally Posted by toofewweekends View Post
    All,
    I'm writing this a.m. from my desk at the National Park Service. As with many things federal, the situation at Denali is a little more complicated that it first appears.

    For the "old" Alaska parks, the rules are like they are in the Lower 48. Firearms are illegal, but may be carried into or through the park if they are unloaded, cased and stored out of view (like in the trunk of a car). This applies in about one-third of Denali (roughly the road corridor, visitor centers and the congressionally designated wilderness), a total of about 2 million acres. It also applies in the portions of Glacier Bay and Katmai established before 1980, and the small historical parks in Sitka and Skagway.

    In the 4 million acres of Denali established in 1980, and in the additions to Katmai and Glacier Bay, and in the 10 "new" NPS units established at the same time (through the Alaska Lands Act), firearms are legal to carry. Loaded, operational, in your hands, etc. This is true even though some of them share the "national park" designation.

    In about 21 million acres (out of a total of 54 million acres managed by the NPS) sport hunting under state law is legal. These are the national preserves. They may be stand-alone preserves (such as the Noatak) or a preserve managed with an adjacent national park (such as Denali's 1.3 million acre preserve).

    And in many of the "new" national parks, subsistence hunting is allowed.

    Not to start a new string of commentary, but iIn any of the NPS Alaska units, it is OK to carry bear spray.

    The above information, and some additional details, are in a brochure at this address: http://www.nps.gov/aplic/firearms.pdf While this covers most situations, we recommend that if you're not sure of the rules for the area in which you're thinking about hunting or carrying a firearm, give a call to the local NPS unit and ask. You can pm me for contact info, or go to the "find a park" function on nps.gov

    John Quinley

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    Member barrowdave's Avatar
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    Default One

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWoodsWalker View Post
    The letter was signed by 47 out of 100 senators so that looks like progress. toofew was right. The regulations are confusing and I'm glad that 47 senators agree. Interestingly, I didn't see the names of any of the senators who are running for president.
    I do believe John McKain was on the list wasn't he? Don't think any of the other Republicans running are current senators. Now the dems.............

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