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Thread: Archery lessons

  1. #1
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    Default Archery lessons

    Is there anyone out there that does 1 on 1 lessons I mean someone that will sit there and take the time to watch you and not go and sit with his buddy's and jabber away in his office. I would like to get a few lessons to have someone check on my form and see what is going on. I keep pulling my arrows left and don't know what is causing it, It's either not following through or my grip is wrong or my form is just out of wack or my bow is not set up correctly. I am pretty accurate about 75% of the time but it's the other 25% i'm worried about. out of 300 I shoot about 250 to 270. I never sat down and had someone show me I just jumped into it. I did however pass the shooting part of the test with only missing 1 shot in the kill zone. I have a 06 bowtech tribute set at 62lbs. an hha single pin site and wb rest. The bow is strickley for hunting. Thank you for any and all the help you can give

  2. #2

    Default grip

    I'm no expert but sounds like it might be your grip....sometime when you really grip the handle you create a lot of torque and when you release the arrow it can cause you to pull your shots. If this is the case...try letting the handle rest on the fatty part of your thumb so that you're not really balling a fist around the handle...hope this helps

    Richie

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    Forum Sponsor PM Asman's Avatar
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    Default

    Where are you located? Give me a call or swing by the shop ... we'd be happy to give you a hand.

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    If you are in the Mat-Valley area, go to Fletchers archery in Wasilla. They have been great and will stand on the line with you and watch your every move.

    If you are hitting 75% of the time, I would say it is probably something you are doing rather than the bow being out of tune. Grip is a likely cause. If you have a wrist strap, don't even grab the grip (keep and open hand) until the arrow is gone and the bow starts tipping. Also, don't lock your elbow straight out(bow arm), keep a very slight bend to it.
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    Default If you have a video camera with a tripod...

    ...try videoing yourself from different angles while shooting, esp. quartering away; and include the target when you can, so that you can match your form with the shot.

    All the best!

    sm

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    Default grip

    Yep, I agree with Richie that is probably your grip. When I start getting tired my shots start drifting to the left as well. Your bow hand and arm create torque on your bow and if you are right handed the left hand is your bow hand and naturally pulls to the left. If you don't use a bow wrist sling, you should invest in one and try shooting with an open or completely relaxed grip and let the sling catch your bow on the release until you get used to shooting that way and can stop the recoil jump after the shot but still shoot open handed. Also, if your first few shots are OK but start drifting after a few, stop and rest for a while, you may not feel that you are tiring but pulling and holding wears down your back, neck, arm and wrist muscles pretty good. As your muscles tire, you could be getting some left cant or are not following through completely; take a good long break and relax.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richie View Post
    I'm no expert but sounds like it might be your grip....sometime when you really grip the handle you create a lot of torque and when you release the arrow it can cause you to pull your shots. If this is the case...try letting the handle rest on the fatty part of your thumb so that you're not really balling a fist around the handle...hope this helps

    Richie

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    I am located in Anc. and have wanted to stop by archer's den and now i have a reason too. I have a wrist sling and have tried to change my grip several times. my personal though is that it is a combination of a couple of things, target panic and arm torque. I find myself jerking sometimes before I even release. I normally shoot about 50 shots each time I go to practice with a 5min. break after 15 shots and the last 5 I try my best at hitting the x and never stop until i hit one which is atleast 1 out of the 5 shots

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    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06tributeman View Post
    Is there anyone out there that does 1 on 1 lessons I mean someone that will sit there and take the time to watch you and not go and sit with his buddy's and jabber away in his office. I would like to get a few lessons to have someone check on my form and see what is going on. I keep pulling my arrows left and don't know what is causing it, It's either not following through or my grip is wrong or my form is just out of wack or my bow is not set up correctly. I am pretty accurate about 75% of the time but it's the other 25% i'm worried about. out of 300 I shoot about 250 to 270. I never sat down and had someone show me I just jumped into it. I did however pass the shooting part of the test with only missing 1 shot in the kill zone. I have a 06 bowtech tribute set at 62lbs. an hha single pin site and wb rest. The bow is strickley for hunting. Thank you for any and all the help you can give
    I can give you one on one. Send me a pm and we can talk over the phone.
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    You are on the right track to get help. Let me add though it sounds as if you are making a mistake that a lot of people do. First off, shooting is a process that is repeated. If you repeat the process each time the same, the results are the same.
    When a change happens in arrow placement, the norm for most people is to say, "what did I do wrong". That is not a correct thought process. You should ignore that result and go over in your mind the correct shot process. You should emphasize each movement and part of the process that is supposed to be there.
    If you started with your stance or placement of feet as number one, how many individual steps are in your shot process? How finite do you break that process down? My personal process is 11 recognized steps from stance to shot. If you do not know your shot process by each individual step, it is hard to repeat. If you do not know each step, the focus tends to become negative as you attempt to correct problems, instead of being positive on what is supposed to happen.
    Do you think a pro quarterback is telling himself "don't throw an interception"? Is a major league batter saying "don't strike out"? Oh yeah, and Lord help him if the pitcher is thinking, "don't hit the batter". Do you think Tiger Woods has any negative thought in his head when he prepares for his next shot? Keep your shot process positive. The results will be noticeable.
    Coaches should also do the same thing. They should not focus on what you do wrong, they should focus on what is right. When it comes to form, grip for instance should be taught in a positive way. If the coach sees you not follow the correct method, they should get you to focus on the correct movement, not on what you did wrong.
    I know, it is not quite like the old days when coach yelled in our faces about how stupid we were and we did everything wrong.

  10. #10

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    a real simple solution to figuring out a problem, is to video yourself. You don't need anyone there, there is no pressure, and you're likely to do whatever it is that is screwing things up.

    Usually atleast for us, lefts for us, are a combination of shortdrawing/collapsing and plucking. Keep driving the elbow back and "pushing" the bow forward and it will alleviate most problems. The same theory applies whether it's a stick or a compound. Just something to try and if you do video, watch for.......

    Lastly, like Greg was saying this is a repititous sport. Don't focus on the bad, focus on the good. You NEED to work on form once in awhile, some more so then others, and stickbow shooters way more then compound shooters. Again the principles apply to either bow, the outcome is really the same. It's a never ending cycle, hitting X's and target panic. Keep fighting it and you'll loose and likely quit. Dont worry about groups, or where the arrow flys for awhile, shoot through each step of the shooting process. I prefer to do the dirty work close to a bail with my eyes shut. Dont worry where the arrow impacts, instead pay attention to each and every detail. One day maybe hand placement, the next maybe back tension, one day maybe breathing, the next squeezing the trigger. Take the time and do it right and after a week or two your TP will be gone and you'll be shooting better then ever. Do it wrong and you're waisting your time. It will teach you to relax and focus more then anything else. I had TP horribly bad and with some help from a literal world class longbow shooter and lots of emails he worked me through the issue. As simple as it is, give it a shot. Relax and focus on what you're doing through each and every shot. It'll take a few days maybe a week to start feeling your way through it and get comfortable with the process, once you do, there's no stopping you.

    In short, perfect practice makes perfect bowhunters.

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    That seems to be a problem it's hard to say if I even have the proper form and if I do, Do I go back to it each and every time. I've seen picture's of proper form but have not realy had anyone watch me shoot a little bit and see if my form is the same every shot. I don't realy care where the arrows hit as long as they group. it's when I group 4 arrows within a baseball at 20 and 30 yards around the X and place the 5th or 5th and 6th arrow 4in. left of the group that tells me there is a flaw some where and would like to know what it is and what is causing it. Sometimes it might be the first or the first and second shot that go left and the rest group good.

  12. #12
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    Default I understand

    What you are going through. Most of us started shooting without instruction. We built bad habits instead of good ones. But even consistent bad habits will get you a modicum of success, at least for a while.
    Basics friend, basics. forget everything else, and go back to the beginning. The right instructor will help immensely, but in the long run, what we said earlier is key to continued success.
    I could tell you multiple things you are doing wrong. But that would only enforce those things. Break down that shot process piece by piece until it is memorized. Simplify it as much as you need. Some shooters use 6 or 7 steps, some use 15 or 20.
    It should look something like this:
    1- verify stance, 2- nock arrow, 3- connect release, 4- set bow hand, 5- focus on target, 6- raise bow till level, 7- draw bow to anchor point, 8- verify open/relaxed bow hand, 9- align peep, pin, X, 10- focus on X, 11- push bow hand toward target and back tension through release.
    Build your shot sequence so it fits your needs. You might decide to put 2 of my sequences together, but separate out another into 3 steps. Practice close on a plain bale w/out a target. It sounds like you are using the X to verify or validate your shot. Let the physical shot process, backed up by the mental image you are using to break the process into steps be your validation. You will learn to know when you made a mistake, almost instinctively. When you correct it, it will be with positive inputs.

  13. #13

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    Everything else aside (ie your bow is properly tuned)

    Arrows wont group consistntly, if you're form is inconsistent

    Arrows wont impact the X if your form is inconsistent.

    Be patient with it, you'll work through this, as mind boogling as it is.

    Pictures and video's are like going to mcdonalds or the hilton.....not even the same league. Video yourself, you know what things should look like. It's amazing what little bits you can pick up by watching yourself...well let me rephrase that it's down right humbling and quite obvious usually!

    I pick those steps apart even more, doing each individually. Well really focusing on something for a session, not jsut a shot. Mind you paying attention to everything else, your focus maybe on say backtension. Work on this in steps and take your time with it, it WILL prevail and you WILL show improvements.

    Case in point, back in 98 august, I had just shot my first ram. Next day got on a HUGE interior grizzly and might as well have shot for the moon, thats where the arrow went. Bear fever? Hardly. I had been fighting this problem for a few years by then. 2 weeks, no target, and following a strigent routine daily. It worked wonders....to the point, with wood arrows, wood bow, 30 yards I was grouping fist size groups, with my eyes SHUT! Can I do that now? NO. I just aint been practicing lately..canoe canoe canoe...ugg

    It will work, if you put in the time. DO NOT enforce bad habits. If it's wrong, don't shoot it. If you're tired, GO HOME, take day or two off if you need it, take your mind off of it. This is a mental game...read that MENTAL!

    When things come around, you'll look back and say dang that was easy......right now you might as well be climbing the himy's.

  14. #14
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    Thanks for all the advise, I will try and utilize it to the fullest capability. I need to get back to the range haven't shot since September when I went out black bear hunting in P.W.S. and bou hunting on my tier II up north. Thanks again and any more advise I'm all ears, it's just frustrating as hell when you are shooting good groups and then all of a sudden it goes to hell in a hand basket and I don't think it's because i'm tired it's got to do with one of the things you guys have mentioned

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    Default This reminds me

    I need to go shoot too. It has been too long. Talking with you guys reminds me why I like the regime of shooting. I just let other things get in the way.
    Only go to the range if, 1, you are going to get good quality coaching, and/or 2, if you can not shoot at home. I do most of my winter shooting indoors in the garage. I would not hesitate to do the same in the house.
    I hang a poly bag stuffed with stretch wrap from the ceiling and shoot from 6' to 9' away. In more releases than I care to count I have never come close to missing or passing through the bag. I shoot the bag without a target. Your eye will still pick out mini targets such as holes or what not but I never shoot for anything but the bag. My entire focus is on me, not the result of what I hit. Remember, positive thoughts bring positive results.
    Any habit change (ending smoking, better eating, excercise, doing homework) takes time to build and maintain. No new action becomes habit until it has been repeated successfully time after time, day after day, week after week. You have all winter to focus on the positive changes, and the rest of your life to enforce them. Take your time and have fun.

  16. #16

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    scary how much we seem to be alike Gregg. I too shoot in the house in the winter though I do go to the range from time to time, on a normal winter it's atleast once or three times a week, this winter that isnt happening with projects so far.

    I also have a "range" in my house. Used to use a burlap bag with shrink wrap, and as long as it's not against the wall it wont go through. You can add another smaller bag behind it and you'll be fine. I ended up buying a small foam block style target at sportsmens and have it in the closet, which gives me a couple of yards, enough to work on form. Same thing, no target.

    Not all practice is physical, most of it's mental, oops, back to that mental thing again. Go to the range when your mind's not in the game, you're practicing negative habits....or negatively reinforcements. Though I do like going when I'm tense or stressed, my best practice sessions are when I'm relaxed and in a good mood......Pretty obvious stuff. Dont force anything, if it aint working, you're better off to go home....dont stew over it.

  17. #17
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Two things

    Consistency = what ever you do, do everything the same every time. Grip, form, sight picture.

    Only change one thing at a time = If you change more than one thing to try to improve, you won't know what is helping.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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  18. #18

    Default Pointing out the obvious....

    ....but, have you made sure everything is tight? I had a similar problem this year, would shoot 3 of 4 perfect and have a flyer. I started worrying about form, how I was gripping, foot position everything. Nothing helped. I then checked what I should have checked first and found my rest slightly loose. Tightened and have not had a problem since.
    Another thing to note is that you can shoot too much. You may not feel tired but if your shooting once a week and trying to shoot 1/2 hour it may be to much for you. Your arm is not in bow shape and your tired. Some times 3-12 perfect shots is enough until you build up your bow muscles again.

    Just my .02.

  19. #19
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    Default obvious but right

    Yes, your bow should be in good working condition. Everything should be tightened correctly. For what I do indoors, as long as the bow is safe, I don't care about the rest unless a "twang" or hanging thread or something else causes me to stop my shot process and think about something else.
    Shooting at 6' doesn't give you an opportunity to determine if your bow is tuned or there are any other problems. Yes indeed, verify that your equipment is safe and tight though.
    I do not worry about impact point when I do go to the range and shoot at 20 yards. I shoot for form, and form gives me groups. I do not care where the groups are. If I group an X ring today, and tomorrow I am slightly off, I do not move the sight. I don't change anything. I will continue to shoot until I am consistently grouping in the same area. Days or weeks later I might adjust the sites to move me back to the X ring.
    I do number arrows and shoot 5-spot targets so I can keep track of "flyers" or arrows that may not shoot the same as the others. I used to keep a log of each shot, now I tend to just use a fresh target and watch the holes.

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