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Thread: acceptable accuracy

  1. #1
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    Default acceptable accuracy

    Just wanting some opinions on accuracy, I bought a m77 ruger 30/06 left hand last spring and no matter what bullet powder combination i try i cant get better than 2 to 3 inch groups at 100. Thought it might be the trigger so installed a timiney didnt help much. I bought my wife a tikka t3 at the same time and it will shoot 1 inch groups all day with almost any load. I just bought a guide gun in 45/70 its like the tikka it really shoots. are rugers known for that? I know its accurate enough for most hunting but it seems it should shoot better, i traded a savage 300 wsm for it and that gun would shoot too, funny thing is the ruger was the most expensive of the 3. Does anyone have any loads they use in their rugers that shoot well?

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    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Ruger

    Get it pillar bedded or Buy a HS Precision stock......free float the barrel also
    Alaska

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    Default Me too....

    I have a M77 MII in 30.06 that shoots like that. I've tried most of the tricks and many different loads without much success. I would have traded it by now if it wasn't a gift from my wife. I wonder if it would do any good to send it back to Ruger and have them take a look at it?

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    Member Eastwoods's Avatar
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    Default

    [quote=Coaldust;185422] I wonder if it would do any good to send it back to Ruger and have them take a look at it?


    I also have a ruger 77 (30-06) that used to shoot 2 1/2 to 3" groups. I tried many different loads. I *****ed and moaned to ruger, they said they don't guarentee accuracy. But, they said if worse than 1 1/2" at 50 yards they would rebarrel it. I said thats where I'm at! Last minute, they would'nt do it because it was magna-ported. At the time (5-7 years ago) they said only $124.95 to rebarrel it. I almost did it. To keep a short story long, a buddy told me to first clean it, clean it, clean it. After, two days of green blue patches, I got 1" to 1 1/2" groups with plain old rem core-locks.

    Note; I scrubed with a bronze brush (wet with Hoppes copper solvent) then patched until clean, wetted the bore again and let sit for hours and repeated, with more green blue coming out...3 to 4 times! I suspect some of these barrels are rough and foul easily. I do not have the knowledge of how to rate bores.

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    Default

    Sometimes a rifle simply will not shoot any better no matter what we try. Sometimes we get lucky and get a tack driver right out of the box. You can try rebedding and recrowning and maybe, or maybe not it will help. It might be your scope, it could be your loads. It could also be something as simple as the position of the forearm on the sand bags as you are shooting it.
    The suggestion to try removing the copper fouling is a good one and is a great place to start. After that it depends on how much money you want to spend. Ruger is not known for using the best in barrels so a good quality rebarreling job by a good smith is a great place to start.
    Have you tried tightening or loosening the action screws to see if the action moves in the stock (it should not move)? A good trigger can also work wonders.
    Tennessee

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Default

    I would just figure it is good enough for most hunting also.


    But I would also suggest trying different weight bullets. You mentioned that you tried different loads in it but were they all the same weight bullets?

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    Default 30-36

    What bullet weights are you using? Back in the DARK ages, I had an Interarms Mark X 30-06 that was giving me fits. It just would not group worth a darn. A friend suggested that I try IMR 4350, 56.0 grains behind a Sierra 165 BT. That load would clover leaf three rounds at 100yds all day long as long as I did my part. Being not so smart I no longer have the Interarms rifle, bad for me but good for some one else. I do have a Winchester MD 70 Classic Stainless in 30-06 and it too like this same load.
    That is part of the fun of reloading is to be able to work loads and do lots more shooting. Just keep trying different things until you find one for YOUR rifle.
    Good luck!

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    Default thanks

    Thanks guys, I will get more aggressive with the cleaning, i have cleaned with barnes cr10 up till now. I have tryed bullets from 150 to 220, it seems to like the heaver bullets best, but even they dont shoot well. I have free floated the barrel too..... might rebarrel to 35 whelan.

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Default

    Sometimes some forward pressure on the barrel can help too. Such as a little hump at the forend of the stock. Some rifles will do better with this as opposed to completely free floating the barrel.

  10. #10

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    I have a M77 also though its chambered in 338WM. It shoots most factory ammo into 1" without much fuss. I have just started reloading and even being completely in the beginning phases the gun shows great promise. So you just may have got a bad one, that do happen from time to time.




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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Default

    I have a Winchester 70 in 375 H&H that would not shoot for *&% and the last 2 to 3 inches of the barrel would always load up with copper after a few shots. Well, instead of doing the smart and fast thing (having Andy Hawk cut a couple inches off the barrel) I spent an hour every night for two weeks lapping and polishing that barrel with progresively finer and finer abrasive. It will now shoot an honest 1" group or less at 100 yards. For some reason I have had superb accuracy results shooting the Hornaday 270 gr round nose bullets. It is not uncommon for it to shoot three of these at 100 yards that are all touching! So, I guess my suggesting to you would be: Clean, clean and then clean some more, and then try shooting some heavy round nose bullets and see how they do. for some reason, and in all the calibers I have, the roundnose bullets, that are heavy for caliber seem to really shoot good. I think it has something to do with the bearing area being a bit longer on these bullets versus, say a boat tail spitzer.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Default round nose

    alangaq I have tryed hornady 220 round nose and they have given me the best groups in this rifle by far, (still not better than 2 1/2 to 3 iches) but better than most, i have put on 2 different scopes so it must be in the barrel, will start cleaning and see what happens.

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Default

    Yea, I think I would give it a good cleaning with some copper solvent (barns CR-10 or equivalent) and follow up with Hoppies No 9 and then switch over to J-B bore brite. the J-B comes in at least two grits, both of whitch are very, very mild as far as abrasives go. The ones I have are brown and kind of a maroon / red color. I fit a patch to a brass jag and work it back and forth in the barrel for.............well, for a long time, and I work alternately from the muzzle and breach (yep, I know your not supposed to clean from the muzzle, but that is usually were most of the trouble is, and if your careful, you wont have any trouble). this type of "polishing" takes a long time.......... a very long time, but keep at it as time permits for a week or so, and that barrel will be alot smoother. Dont worry about over doing it, we are talking about relitive terms here, and the abrasive ability of the J-B products is not such that you are going to change any of the dimentions of the barrel, just smooth out and polish some of the high spots on the tooling marks from the rifleing process. the only down side to using this stuff is that it is a paste and make a heck of a gooy mess. bottom line is that this is a rather cheap option for you that may or may not work. if it does, they great! If not, then your out less than $20 and your barrel will still be easyer to clean in the future.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Default

    I have a M77 Mk2 All Weather in 06'. I use Winchester 150 grain ballistic silvertips. I can get sub 2" groups. I wish I had had the paper to prove it. I have found out that letting the barrel cool down between shoots works great. 150's just don't do it for me. That is why I posted a few or so ago for info on pitching something bigger.

    Ron

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    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default What KIND of groups do you get?...

    Vertical stringing? Lateral stringing? Perhaps a group that looks more like a load of 00 buckshot?
    I agree with the others that cleaning that bugger may help out a bunch, BUT, I've never been a huge fan of the Ruger bedding system, nor of their barrels. For years, quality of their barrels was spotty, I hear that they quit buying them finally, and started making their own, but the deal is that you could get one that'd shoot the pennies out of a nickel all day long once, and the next day another rifle that it'd be tough to keep three shots on the inside of a barn with!
    If your groups are stringing, look real hard at the bedding to see if your receiver and barrel aren't squirming around in the stock. Lateral stringing will generally show up with loose action screws, sloppy bedding, or no contact with the recoil lug. Vertical stringing can be too much, or a lack of pressure on the barrel in the channel....
    Oh, yeah, try the 165-180's (most anybody's good bullets) and IMR 4350. THE magic powder for the .30-06!

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    Default buckshot

    my groups are more like buckshot, altho today it shot one 1/2 inch group with hornady 180s round nose. but i couldnt duplicate it again. i am starting to think it might be in the stock,i have never bedded one so will have to learn

  17. #17

    Default TRY This

    Take your wifes favorite credit card and cut it into 1/2" strips across the short side. Place one or stack a couple in the stock groove under where the barrel engages the action and retighten. Shoot a group and see what the rifle does. If this changes the grouping try moving the strips toward the muzzle. If the group improves the problem is in the stock. Also wooden stocks will freeze and warp in cold weather conditions causing erratic performance.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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    Default Consistent '06 Loads to try

    I appreciate your frustration. You should be able to expect better that 2"-3" hundred yard groups. Others have made many excellent suggestions. My only addition is to suggest a couple of loads that have been consistently accurate - 3-5 shot groups ranging from .3" to .75" in at least 6 different '06 rifles including two Ruger M77 MKII's.

    You may want to give them a try if for no other reason than to help diagnose the nature of the problem(s) you are dealing with and apply some of the suggestions others have made to remedy them (such as glass bedding the action, floating the barrel, cleaning and lapping the barrel, etc.)

    The suggested loads both use 180 grain bullets. They are:

    55.0 grains IMR 4350
    47.5 grains IMR 4064
    Remington 9 1/2 primers

    My preference has been Winchester brass but the loads shot equally well with Federal brass (which I used in initial develpment) and Remington brass.

    I've used several different brands and styles of bullets from Hornady Spire Points to Speer Grand Slams to Nosler Partitions and accuracy has been good with all. The key seems to be the consistency of the burning rate of these powders in the '06 case. Shot to shot velocity doesn't vary much in any rifle I've chronographed the loads through.

    I generally have no interest in rifles that won't shoot sub MOA and I keep working till I get it or get rid of the rifle. The only exception has been a Ruger M77 Ultralight chambered in .308 Winchester. It is just so light to carry, handles better than any other rifle I've owned, and juist "feels" good. But I've been unable to get it to shoot better than 1 1/2" -2" groups despite glass bedding and floating the barrel, etc. My next step is to rebarrel it.

    Good luck with your project.

  19. #19

    Default

    I've gotta echo some of the suggestions I've already seen here. The first step I would take would be to free float the barrel. Ensure that there is no place the barrel and stock are making contact. Try shooting it like that first. If it still doesn't group, glass bed the action and try shooting it like that. If it still won't shoot, attempt to put a pressure point at the forend of the stock. One way I've seen to do this that seemed to work was to cut several strips of wet/dry sandpaper and stack them between the barrel and stock. Add or subtract pieces of sandpaper shim until it starts shooting the way you want it to. Once you've determined what thickness you need, hole punch that many layers of the sandpaper, and glass bed a pressure point across the front of the stock using your hole punched discs as a template of sorts at the bottom of the barrel channel. If you still can't get it to shoot less than 1" at 100 yards with a pressure point, I'd give Ruger a call and let them deal with it. A few years back, my dad had an older Ruger M77 in .25-06 that wouldn't shoot under 1" after he glass bedded it and all that. He called Ruger and explained to them that he'd got it used and all that he'd done to try to make it shoot. After he told them all that, they told him to send it in. He sent it in with a target and got it back with a brand new barrel within a couple weeks free of charge.
    NRA Life Member, Prior F-16 crew chief.

  20. #20

    Default Rugers

    I messed with two of them, both had stock pressure on one side of the barrel (right hand side). A thorough bedding job (+ bedding the first 3-4 inches of the barrel/ chamber area) and hogging out the barrel channel corrected this and improved accuracy significantly. That anglular recoil lug screw seems to promote twisting of the action unless everything is bedded and barrel channel opened up a bit. Just my 2cents.

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