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Thread: .338 Winchester Magnum-a standard action powerhouse.

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    Member Silver Tip's Avatar
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    Smile .338 Winchester Magnum-a standard action powerhouse.

    Hello from Colorado. I'm a new member of the Alaska Shooting forum and would like to introduce you to a wonderful 338 Win Mag load I've used successfully for years. My son and I have used it extensively on elk and deer here in Colorado and on Black Wildebeest, Oryx, Kudu, Wart Hog and numerous smaller plains game in Africa. The African animals are really tough. All of our Africa kills were one shot kills that put the animals down instantly!

    It was much the same with elk here in Colorado.
    The 338 load originally came from Bob Hagel's book entitled "Guns, Loads and Hunting Tips" 1986. His published load is 77 grains of IMR 4350 behind a Nosler 210 gr. Partition bullet. That load chronographs out of my Rem. 700 and my son's Model 70 (24 and 23" barrels) at 3125 fps which calculate to 4555 ft lbs of energy. In order to get that much powder into the case you need to use about an 18" drop tube and the load is compressed. We have used the load since 1987...Great load! The load is very accurate. I shot my last elk this fall at 425 yards...killed it dead.

    The 338 case if perfect for this load..when you move up to the 250 gr. bullets there just isn't enough space in the case for enough powder to really make this as efficient as the 210 load. You can get 2750-2800 fps but thats about it. If you want a really good 250 load you need to go to the 340 Weatherby or the 338 Ultra Mag...both long action, long barreled rifles. The 210 partition is one tough bullet with lots of penetration capability.
    I think this would make a wonderful Alaska load for any thing you may want to hunt..a great sheep load where big bears roam and may be encountered...any where in AK... do bears crap in the woods. It's very accurate and I would shoot at ranges of 400+ without hesitation. This would be my choice for an all around gun anywhere, except Cape buffalo and such.

    I have really enjoyed the shooting forum and hope to contribute...enjoy and have a wonderful Christmas....don't forget the reason for the season!

    Silver Tip

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    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 338 Win

    My Favorite Alaskan round......the 338 Win Mag......but with 225 gr bullets like the TSX and Accubond. I use Reloader 19....but have had good sucess with IMR 4350.

    Rifle a Little heavy for sheep hunting.....
    Alaska

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    I often hear elk hunters using 210-grain partition bullets like you do. Some folks swear to that bullet/load combination.

    Last year I used a 225-grain TSX on a moose, with great results. But then, every moose I have shot to date with my .338WM, except for two, have dropped on the spot or very close to it. I have shot them with the Lubalox-coated 230-grain FS, 250-grain A-Frame, and 250-grain Partition. I favor the tougher bullets because bears roam the same areas as moose, and want pass-through's.

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    Default Welcome and Thanks for joining us...

    I share your enthusiasm for the great 338 Win. mag. and the 210 partition. I've taken all of your list with the 338 and several others as well. It is my go-to elk rifle. The flat shooting 210 grain will reach across canyons and plains and hit with authority.

    It makes a great western mountain rifle, African plains rifle or of course Alaskan rifle. I think it is the number one caliber here on this forum for Alaskan hunting.

    Thanks for your contribution welcome.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Default Bob's 338

    As I recall Bob Hagel's favorite go caliber was the 338 Abe Express which was based on the 404 Jeffery and dimension wise is almost identical to the current Rem 338 UM except for a slightly longer neck. "Guns, Loads, and Hunting Tips" - a great book full of a lot of insightful common sense and guidance.

  6. #6

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    I have worked up a load using 210's but not Partitions, I am using TSX's. As of now I have 71.5 grains of H4350 with Fed 215 primers and this combo is pushing the 210 TSX at about 2910. I intend to push the envelope a bit with some more powder as soon as the temps warm up when I can chrono them. I am newly found fan of the TSX's and am thinking that pushing the 210 a wee bit faster than the 225 graina and the 250 makes them really shine seeing as they hold up so well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    I have worked up a load using 210's but not Partitions, I am using TSX's. As of now I have 71.5 grains of H4350 with Fed 215 primers and this combo is pushing the 210 TSX at about 2910. I intend to push the envelope a bit with some more powder as soon as the temps warm up when I can chrono them. I am newly found fan of the TSX's and am thinking that pushing the 210 a wee bit faster than the 225 graina and the 250 makes them really shine seeing as they hold up so well.
    Yes, you should be able to safely bring the speed up to higher levels. Just follow the data for the 210-grain X near maximum.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfromAK View Post
    Yes, you should be able to safely bring the speed up to higher levels. Just follow the data for the 210-grain X near maximum.
    Have you shot this combo Ray, I wish I could get some solid info from someone on what to expect with this combo (H4350 and 210TSX's). Barnes was no help at all. They gave me data using H4831SC and it was way off. I am guessing I am pretty close and have been getting pretty good accuracy too ,seeing as I havent experimented much with off the lands distances yet. I posted some pics from the range in the reloading section.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Have you shot this combo Ray, I wish I could get some solid info from someone on what to expect with this combo (H4350 and 210TSX's). Barnes was no help at all. They gave me data using H4831SC and it was way off. I am guessing I am pretty close and have been getting pretty good accuracy too ,seeing as I havent experimented much with off the lands distances yet. I posted some pics from the range in the reloading section.
    No, I haven't. But this is what The Barnes #3 manual shows for the XTB of the same weight (210-grain XTB):

    H4350
    Start = 64.5 grains for 2714 fps
    Maximum = 69.5 grains for 2924 fps

    IMR 4831 is a little faster with a start of 66.0 grains for 2726 fps, and a maximum of of 71.0 grains grains for 2933 fps.

    RL-19 is faster than those two powders. Start = 68.0 grains for 2742 fps, and maximum of 73.0 grains for 2944 fps.
    ---------
    Go to the Barnes web site and download the data for loading the Barnes TSX bullet, since you may be able to squeeze a little more speed from it than the XBT bullet of the same weight, at least that's what they are claiming.

  10. #10

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    Ray none of that load data seems to be accurate with the TSX and Barnes gave me load data for the TSX that was way off too. I think the hardest thing has been thatnot many people use H4350 with the 210TSX. H4831SC had me at a compressed load and not even breaking 2900fps. I am trying to stay within the extreme powders and thats why I am using the H4350. I am gonna try and squeeze a little more fps out of her but I am pretty happy with where I am at. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Ray none of that load data seems to be accurate with the TSX and Barnes gave me load data for the TSX that was way off too. I think the hardest thing has been thatnot many people use H4350 with the 210TSX. H4831SC had me at a compressed load and not even breaking 2900fps. I am trying to stay within the extreme powders and thats why I am using the H4350. I am gonna try and squeeze a little more fps out of her but I am pretty happy with where I am at. Thanks

    It seems that they have created reloading data for the TSX instead of telling their customers to use the data from the X flat base bullet. Here is the data for the TSX (.338WM):
    http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/338WinMagWeb.pdf

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    Default You'er over looking 2 things>>>

    1. The H4831 (or RL 19 or 22 powders for that matter) are too slow for the 250 grain or the 210 TSX bullets in the 338 Win case. I've tried and it just won't work.

    2. The Barnes copper bullets are lighter than copper jacketed partition (lead core) bullets and therefore are longer, which takes up valuable case space.

    The 210 gr. Nosler partitions are quite a bit shorter allowing for more space for powder. In order to get 77 grains of IMR 4350 into the case you have to use a "drop tube" which settles the powder so you can get more in.

    The 338 Win Mag case just isn't large enough to get enough powder to propel a 250 grainer more than about 2800 fps. or get the longer 210 TSX bullet to the velocities you can get the Nolser 210.

    You will likely have to go to an Ultra mag or Weatherby 340 to get that kind of performance.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no other place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth." ...Ronald Reagan.....please never forget this!!!

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    Question Hybrid 100V Powder

    Has anyone used Hodg new powder Hybrid 100V sounds like a good powder for the 338 Win!
    Alaska

  14. #14

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    Heck I broke 2900 fps with the 210TSX and 71.5g of H4350 and had 0 signs of pressure. So I am pretty sure I can get at least 2950 and still not be pushing it. 2900 fps was my goal so I am pleased.

    Silvertip- You are very correct in your statements, all things I have found out in my reloading effort.

    Barnes hasn't been of any use to me in reloading the 338WM with 210 TSX's simply because they dont have much data using extreme powders, or its just plain inaccurate.

  15. #15
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Default new load date

    In comparing Barnes "new load data" on the web compared to that in their 3rd ed. it seems that they have "throttled back significantly" the loads for the 300 RUM. I have not crossed checked loads for other chamberings, but would anticipate this same trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Heck I broke 2900 fps with the 210TSX and 71.5g of H4350 and had 0 signs of pressure. So I am pretty sure I can get at least 2950 and still not be pushing it. 2900 fps was my goal so I am pleased.

    Silvertip- You are very correct in your statements, all things I have found out in my reloading effort.

    Barnes hasn't been of any use to me in reloading the 338WM with 210 TSX's simply because they dont have much data using extreme powders, or its just plain inaccurate.
    2900 fps is plenty for a 210-grain TSX, although you can go a little higher as long as the pressure is safe. Did you notice the over 3140 fps for a 185-grain TSX? That's pretty fast. Federal loads a couple of 180-grain bullets for the .338WM at 3120 fps.

    I Alaska I just use the 225-grain TSX up to 250 grains, and load a few 275-grain A-frame to take with moose during the moose season, but I have never used them on game. The 225-grain TSX I used on moose this year was quite deadly as it passed right through, so I was impressed with it.

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    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 225 Tsx

    The 225 TSX in the 338 Win will take everything in Alaska......no need for hevier bullet. If you get 2900 FPS thats plenty in the 338 Win. for the larger bears and moose. I am real fond of Reloader 19 in the 338 Win but affarid it will no longer made next year. The new powder Hodg Hybrid V100 seems to be the Heavy Magnum powder that has been used for years by Hornady.....looking foward to trying it out. Reloader is coming out with RL 17 next year also.

    Just for Moose in my 338 Win I use the 225 Nosler AB and 75.1 of RL19 with WLR primers in FC nickle Cases as my Moose loads very accurate out of my Win 70.

    Silvertip

    Use too Elk hunt alot near Norwood, CO and Mule Deer hunt near Rifle/ Meeker/ Craig
    Alaska

  18. #18

    Default Well !

    If I was hunting the "lower 48" with a .338 I would be shooting something lighter then 250 grain bullets. I think Connie Brooks of Barnes X bullet fame has used the 185 grain XXX on a lot of stuff. I have been sticking 250 grain Barnes X bullets in the .338 case for a very long time. Before that it was 250 grain Nosler Partitions. RL 19 is my powder of choice. My MV is about 2700 fps. That load has very good accuracy out of my gun. I use a 200 yard zero. It is "flat shooting" enough for my Alaskan hunting needs. I approach it like this. Define my bullet performance needs, get the accuracy I need and then sit on a bench and learn my trajectory with that load combo. I do agree with all the comments you made about the 210 Nosler, Hagle also wished that Nosler would make a spitzer shaped 250 grain .338 bullet, and they finally did. There are many good .338 bullets out there. I know I got brain washed by Emer Keith when I was younger. I have 2 of Bob Hagle's books. He was not bashful when it came to stuffing powder in a case! Back in the 60's a friend of my parents named Johnny Porter guided Hagle to that caribou that is pictured in his book. He also told me Hagle was the best shot he ever guided.

  19. #19
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Default Rl 19

    I will be sorry to see RL 19 go, one of my favorite loads for my 330 Dakota with 225 gr NP chronographs at 3100 fps and is with a max dose of RL 19. It is a reliable load and has been quite accurate thru the years without excessive head expansion in my rifle. Looks like time to stock up with a 5 lb container while still on the shelves. Release of the "new" Hodgdon's powder is intriguing.

  20. #20
    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 338 Win

    My hunting rifles a 338 Win I too use a 200 yard zero since I have the Leupold BC reticle.....I have to zero it at 200 yards to take advatage of its reticle system. Then I use a Laser Range Finder to get the correct distace around the stand. Good set up.

    My 30-06 I just use a 3" High zero @ 100 yards........my new 375 Ruger will proably get the same and should make a good 300 yard rifle.

    Hagel few books here also, still like to read them.
    Along with O'connor and Keith
    Old enough to remember the greats............
    Alaska

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