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Thread: Villagers Vs Transporters

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    Default Villagers Vs Transporters

    Here are a couple of headlines from the Kodiak Daily Mirror. I can add some details but will remain neutral for now. Will try to post a picture of the village

    Akhiok adopts land use fee
    Increased charter hunting leaves villagers short on subsistence meat
    Article published on Tuesday, November 20th, 2007
    By BRYAN MARTIN
    Mirror Writer
    Akhiok is fighting to keep food on the table as a subsistence village that relies on deer meat as a staple, and as a result is initiating a land use fee to make hunters pay for kill.

    The Akhiok City Council adopted a $70 land use fee per person for sport and recreational use on city land. The fee is a minimum rate, but is based on $10 a day for seven days.
    http://www.kodiakdailymirror.com/?pid=19&id=5491


    Off-island charter operators oppose Akhiok land-use fee
    Article published on Tuesday, December 4th, 2007
    By BRYAN MARTIN
    Mirror Writer
    Boat charter operators carrying hunters and sightseers to Akhiok are claiming that village’s recent levy of a land-use fee is discriminatory and an attempt to gain exclusive rights.

    Alaska Coastal Marine charter operator Tim Cashman, who operates out of Soldotna and Homer, is banging heads with Akhiok City Manager and Vice Mayor Dan McCoy over the new $70 fee that went into effect Nov. 14.

    http://www.kodiakdailymirror.com/?pid=19&id=5539

  2. #2

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    Here's the write up:

    Akhiok is fighting to keep food on the table as a subsistence village that relies on deer meat as a staple, and as a result is initiating a land use fee to make hunters pay for kill.
    The Akhiok City Council adopted a $70 land use fee per person for sport and recreational use on city land. The fee is a minimum rate, but is based on $10 a day for seven days.
    “Please pay before you cross any city land,” an announcement reads.
    The fee went into effect Nov. 14.
    City Manager and Vice Mayor Dan McCoy said his village of 55 people on the southwest corner of Kodiak Island near Moser Bay depends upon deer meat, but in recent years villagers are struggling to find deer close to the village to hunt.
    “Hunting in Akhiok has been real heavy. We are now being overhunted,” McCoy said Monday.
    McCoy said hunters coming into the area also leave a mess behind.
    “They leave garbage on the beach and then we are left with having to clean it up.”
    Hunters who come into the Akhiok area by charter boat do much of the hunting.
    McCoy said there are four or five charter boats working the area.
    “As the past few years have progressed, there are a lot more outside boats going through,” he said.
    If one boat is bringing in six guys for a week’s hunting, then that is 18 deer since each is allowed three deer apiece,” McCoy said.
    McCoy said the deer kill adds up when there are four or five boats operating.
    “This situation is getting worse,” he said.
    Deer season for the area runs from Aug. 1 through Dec. 31. In January, there is a subsistence hunt in which only Akhiokans are permitted to participate.
    McCoy said the city has not charged a fee previously for use of city-owned land, but that the seven-member City Council recently voted unanimously to adopt the fee.
    “We have been thinking about doing this for the past couple of years. The fee is long overdue,” McCoy said.
    “We have never had a fee like this before,” he said.
    McCoy said two weeks ago some villagers went to get deer but they had to go to Olga Bay and then back down to Rogers Beach before they were able to bag a deer, and then they only came back with two deer.
    “That’s 70 miles,” he said.
    “We are a subsistence village. What is the use having subsistence if we have to pay fuel and expenses that outweigh the benefits?” McCoy said.
    “The other problem is that the city has to do pickup and cleanup because the hunters do not do it themselves,” McCoy said.
    “It gets worse every year,” he said.
    Mirror writer Bryan Martin can be reached via e-mail at bmartin@kodiakdailymirror.com.


    I can't believe some of the comments they are making. Can't find deer close to town?? Get off your butt and go do some hunting. They are making assumptions that every boat that goes there is limiting out on deer, they might want to re-think that comment. They even have their own special hunting season and are still complaining. It's not about the meat, it's more about the $$$.

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    I'm not sure how charging a land use fee is going to hinder the boat operators (or change the quality of hunting in that area for that matter); the boat guys will still be able to beach hunt during the late season and during the early part of the season they have plenty of public land to choose from. I agree -- this is about $$$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45 View Post
    .....but in recent years villagers are struggling to find deer close to the village to hunt......
    So what's new?

    Every village in Alaska has a "dead zone" around it.

    I doubt a head fee on passers through will accumulate much money, bring back any deer, or do anything other than alienate the place.

  5. #5

    Default Compelled to reply.

    First and foremost... I have to ask the question, subsistance deer? Look back at the records, the deer are not natural and should not qualify as subsistance. IMO They are a fishing village.

    As for the fee, well ,it is private property and if they want to charge then it may be their right, at least they are allowing hunting. Some of their property is tied in with wildlife refuge property and they tried to stop access in the past but because of the co-mingle with wildlife refuge they could not, but they could charge a fee.

    I have witnessed many, many times their skiff hunting techniques. I never once saw them (I was down there for several weeks each year) get out of the skiffs or jet-ski, yes, some hunt on jet-skis, and go up after a deer. It was always a "shoot from the boat hunt". The jet-ski hunters also enjoyed chasing ducks down and open fire on them. Interesting to watch them try to operate throttles and a shotgun at the same time. They worked in pairs and herded the ducks to each other to be most successful.

    As for the trash.. well, boat transported hunters have only day hunting gear with them when they hit the beach. Very little trash if any is on them. It is rare to see a fly in camp due to weather but when one would come in we would always go to the camp site after they left, most always the camp site was clean.

    'Nuff said. I've seen that villages darkside, it's not the rosy picture they try to portray.

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    is the money suppose to make up for there not being a deer in the freezer...?
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    They had a lot of money, as recently as 2002...

    http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/...a_akhiok.shtml

    Apparently, it's gone.

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    Good catch, Dr. No.

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    maybe we can transplant some muskox to big lake and i can use them as my subsistance hunt?...
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    Default ooch

    so far pretty negitive. Yes Akhiok is a somewhat backwards place and yes the money is gone. SOme was blown by people who have lived in poverty all of their lives and had never even ever had a bank account. A lot of it left the village with those who were a little more worldly to buy homes in town and a lot of it ended up at the Dodge and 4 wheeler dealerships. The population dropped by half as soon as the checks came out. Those who are left are the ones who truely love the place as their ancestrial home, those who did`nt qualify for the payout and the regular crew of inebriats you will find in most villages. Typically as in other villages there is only a few paying jobs. Health aid, postal worker,school janitor, school aid and power house. The city has absolutely no way to generate income and relies on chariable grants to keep the lights on. I make no excuses for their live style and I do not live there, just near there. I know of no freindlier or more gracious people any where I have ever been.
    The transporters leave nothing there and until recently the norm had been to pay a couple of the inebriats with booze to shuttle there clients and supplies from the strip to the beach. I think they are just fed up. Ther is a no hunt zone around the village that is regularly violated and yes some times game is scarce. On the other hand I have witnessed some very wasteful subsistance practices in the village.
    Good will can open alot of doors and I know of no effort ever being made by the owners of the charter boats to sit down with the locals to work out a win win for all.
    The boats crews are good operators they have pretty much devided the area up between them selves and don`t over hunt that I can see. They move around alot and when I was renting cabins always checked in to find out if there were other hunters in the area and tried not to step on toes. It could be some big egoes at work here so far the big loser is the air charterer who was bringing in the clients with a wheel plane. But hey I know how they feel 100`s of thousands are being made at their door steps and they get zip. Just like in an exclusive guide area on Fed Land

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous1 View Post
    .....yes the money is gone. SOme was blown by people who have lived in poverty all of their lives and had never even ever had a bank account. A lot of it left the village with those who were a little more worldly to buy homes in town and a lot of it ended up at the Dodge and 4 wheeler dealerships. The population dropped by half as soon as the checks came out. Those who are left are the ones who truely love the place as their ancestrial home, those who did`nt qualify for the payout and the regular crew of inebriats you will find in most villages.......
    Reminds me of that saying Daddy used to use:

    ......Gather up all the money in the world and distribute it equally among all people.

    In 6 months the same people who are rich today will be rich again, and the same people who are poor today will be poor again.

    And there is nothing new under the sun............

  12. #12

    Default Filling in the blanks.

    The transporters leave nothing there and until recently the norm had been to pay a couple of the inebriats with booze to shuttle there clients and supplies from the strip to the beach. I think they are just fed up.
    An effort was made to work with the villagers to pay with cash. $40 to run gear from the beach to the plane and back (a one way trip is 400 yds). No one would take the job. When someone would step up to the plate they did it once or twice and no more. Someone showed up on one trip to haul gear and asked for one of the hunters 6 pack of beer, the hunter abliged. That idividual never missed a trip after that. One year he went to Kodiak for awhile, again no one wanted to work such a regular schedule, once a week. The offer of cash was always there, rarely excepted.

    I make no excuses for their live style and I do not live there, just near there. I know of no freindlier or more gracious people any where I have ever been.
    This is very true. They are very nice people for the most part. The neighbors are nice also. Sad but true, the ones that were the worst were a couple of white villagers playing on the aboriginal card. I believe they were married to native woman.

    The city has absolutely no way to generate income and relies on chariable grants to keep the lights on.
    The village and the corporation do not see eye to eye. The corp. which had been in Anchorage for many years, tried to find ways for the village to make money. They looked into a charter business in Homer for summer fishing and then move the boats to Kodiak for fall hunts. They had only two people volunteer to work it, one was the brother of the head man. They then tried to convert an old cannery into a lodge, no luck again. In fact I had the opportunity to talk with one of the corporate guys. He was down from Anchorage taking his turn caretaking the cannery so it didn't get vandalized again by... well, let's just say he was not happy to have to leave his plush living in Anchorage to baby sit a run down cannery that the villagers did not want to work but did like the stuff in it.

    The villagers also tried to block off Olga Bay to a certain boat. They didn't want them to hunt at all in the bay, even though a some of it is Wildlife refuge. A trooper had to come for that event.

    The local working cannery will hire the villagers but that hasn't panned out well. You have to show up when scheduled, not village time.

    I hope they don't isolate themselves to much or they had better hope the Corp. investments do very well so they can keep getting big bucks for doing nothing. It is sad to see them with no drive to achieve.

  13. #13
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    Default airport facility fee

    every hunter who goes through through the Anchorage airport pays a facilities fee to the port as part of his ticket price. Is this much different.

    "The local working cannery will hire the villagers but that hasn't panned out well. You have to show up when scheduled, not village time.

    I hope they don't isolate themselves to much or they had better hope the Corp. investments do very well so they can keep getting big bucks for doing nothing. It is sad to see them with no drive to achieve."

    yes the cannery will hire the villagers. They can not commute to the cannery with any reliability. There is no road or harbor or small boat facility in the village or safe deep water moorage for boats. If the tide is out your stuck. To work at the cannery you have to live there. These people have families and homes where they need to be. Its not so much "no drive to achieve" there is no opertunity to achieve.
    The corp was working on a plan to set up rental cabins and had 5 ready go and was soliciting the villagers to operate them also several of the people have alotment properties where they could of set up rental cabins and some were considering doing it. Then things changed and now only guides and transporters can rent cabins. There is nothing wrong with passive income if it comes from your own resources
    I find it very interesting the charter boats can buy fuel and provisions from the cannery even though the cannery is in no way "associated" with the village but anyone with private property away from the village may not provide any service or supply to a hunter.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by dws View Post
    **** them, why didn't they just assimilate when we took their children away and tried to turn them into nice white boys and girls. Too bad our weak kneeded government developed a concience about buying this stolen property from the russians about the same time we wanted to sell all that oil we found up north. I hope our courts can get us back some of that land and cash we gave them and give us an equal opprotunity to kill animals everywhere in the state. If they would just of assiliated then Akhiok might be my land today, payed for with hard earned cash by a go getter whiteboy. Sorry fellas ain't gonna be no $10 a day to hunt deer, it's $50 per. Plus a case of beer when one of my helpers meets ya. Don't give him no cash, check or credit card only.
    Cause when the buy the farm from the kids that inherited it and allowed it to go to seed, you get the good with the bad. Yep you get the cows and chickens but you also get the rodents and crop blight that has been allowed to flourish. Takes awhile to cleanse it. But it eventually gets all pretty and a sight for sore eyes, I have confidence this will happen with this place too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous1 View Post
    every hunter who goes through through the Anchorage airport pays a facilities fee to the port as part of his ticket price. Is this much different.
    Just a little:

    There's an airport at the Anchorage airport....................

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    Being a non-resident that was on Tim's boat In November we landed in Akhiok at the runway on the 10th then all this started up with the added fees imposed by the Akhiok folks. Tim flew in on a float plane on the 2nd to last day of the hunt and due to the 55 knot breezes in Kodiak we had to stay another day on the boat before the float plane could fly in to Sulua Bay to take us to Old Harbor to the runway there. Made for a more exciting expierence for us and the folks at Akhiok will probably lose out in the long run and Old Harbor will see more tourists.

    As for no deer around Akhiok I couldn't tell you. Our group of 6 only killed 9 deer and that was our choice to not go to 18. Deer everywhere and some real good bucks were taken. I personally killed one that green scores 101 2/8. When we were hunting in Deadman Bay, a small boat about 16' or so went up the bay while we where on shore and we heard a bunch of shooting just after they went by. Natives? I don't know but I didn't see any other Transporter boats all week.

    I tell you Tim runs one heck of an operation and I would sure pay to be flown right to the boat instead of having to deal with on again off again tribal rules on Native land. Our party was planning on getting Native land permits and were advised not to bother due to the fact the the natives were sketchy on when they sold them and to whom.

    Like here in New Mexico the tribes might gain a bit short term, but the individuals will eventually lose over time.


    --Bill

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    Default charge more

    I think they should raise the fee.

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    Default question for Rick

    Rick,

    Is Gabrielle going to again push the bill to allow the renting of private property cabins "in the field" to hunters? Not sure if you saw her great op-ed in the ADN some time ago. I sent her a note of thanks for that; she pretty much explained how some bills get held in committee, just as "your" bill was held up by Huggins last session. This has to change, and I was impressed with her guts in telling it like it is. If Gabrielle is going to keep on with the bill from last session, please drop me a line and I will send in another letter of support that reflects that this time it better get out of committee and to a floor vote.
    Thanks,



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    This article sheds more light on the land-use fee issue.

    http://www.kodiakdailymirror.com/?pid=19&id=5539

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous1 View Post
    The Akhiok City Council adopted a $70 land use fee per person for sport and recreational use on city land. The fee is a minimum rate, but is based on $10 a day for seven days.
    http://www.kodiakdailymirror.com/?pid=19&id=5491

    http://www.kodiakdailymirror.com/?pid=19&id=5539
    This is city land not native land, therefore it is public property. Now cities can impose fees on land use (park fees etc.) so no foul there, but it seems like it's a way to make a state airport a private airport. I believe you have to cross about 400 yards of city land to get to the water, so maybe the state needs to look at implementing an easement across city land. I doubt the charters care about hunting the city property anyway. Their main concern would be the added fees of bringing clients in on floats as apposed to the mail plane.

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