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Thread: "traditional" methods for subsistence hunting...?

  1. #1
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Talking "traditional" methods for subsistence hunting...?

    always cracks me up when i hear this lame rhetoric... ("sheep problem" thread)... i bet there are lots of first peoples across the country who would be happy to go back to the methods of hunting their ancestors used hundreds of years ago, you know, like stampeding animals off cliffs, corralling in box canyons and driving with fire.
    of course, us white guys need to do the same to be fair.
    oh yeah...WE WEREN'T HERE!!!!
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  2. #2
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I don't understand how the common belief is that "white" people have no traditional subsitance roots!!! We keep hearing about how the native people have hundreds of years of heritage but never look back to our own roots. Before farming Europe was also a hunter-gathering continent. Even after farming, hunting was a relied upon way of providing for ones family. The european's have been a constantly expanding people bordering on nomadic which has continued to this day. We will still travel great distances and move our families to where the best job is so we can provide for them. Yes the means for harvesting have evolved (as they have for the natives). I wonder if when the first cave man stabed a beast with a pointy stick if others challenged him for not using traditionsl methods and clubbing it. My point is this My family all the way back to our days scratching drawings on the wall of a cave has relied on local game populations for subsistance regardless of where our nomadic lifestyle has taken us. Do I have a right to "subsist" on the game of my state as much as anyone else? Or did my people spawn from the ground by magic just after the industrial revolution?

  3. #3

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    Dave

    The picture change on your avatar was a great improvement!

  4. #4
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    ........WE WEREN'T HERE!!!!
    What does that have to do with the issue? Cro-magnon and Neanderthals hunting the same way in Europe.

    The politics/ideology is about a political priority, not the tactics of hunting.

  5. #5
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Dog gonit Dave...........now I'm confused again. Are you complaining or supporting "traditional" means? Surely a kinder, gentler guy like you supports tradional subsistence methods?
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  6. #6
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Default It's all politics

    Has little to do with "native & traditional" lifestyle and is more about paying "political retribution". Classic example is with whales. Alaska Natives and now even a "tribe" of Native Americans in Seattle are allowed to hunt whales. However, Japan and Norway, who both have just as much, if not more, history of hunting whales, are both harrassed by Greenpeace and others for whale hunting.
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  7. #7
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Has little to do with "native & traditional" lifestyle and is more about paying "political retribution". Classic example is with whales. Alaska Natives and now even a "tribe" of Native Americans in Seattle are allowed to hunt whales. However, Japan and Norway, who both have just as much, if not more, history of hunting whales, are both harrassed by Greenpeace and others for whale hunting.
    Your on to something there. That is a great example you provided. LuJon, you nailed it on the head. Wonder if I'd qualify for subsistence rights in Scandinavia and/or Italy?

    Tim

  8. #8
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    Default Been there, seen that.

    Like most in Alaska I have lived in the villages. I can think of and I believe have photos of 3-4 seals lying on the beach, which rotted after a few weeks, listened to the hunters tell of shooting many baluga and actually getting three to shore while the rest sank and chassing down caribou down with snowmachines. It seems to me that to hunt native/ subsistance you should be required to hunt in the traditional methods, and with traditional style equipment. Ie no modern high powered rifles, no high speed boats to chase whales, and no 4wheeler or snowmachine to chase other game. Actually the subsistance I saw was the native store. Now I am going to up set even more folks. I also think that if you are going to hunt with black powder/ primitive weapons it should be with cap and ball or flint lock. Some of the "modern" black power is little more than a hunting rifle without a brass case to hold the powder and shot together. Just my two cents worth.

  9. #9
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    Default Not quite

    Quote Originally Posted by redale View Post
    Like most in Alaska I have lived in the villages. I can think of and I believe have photos of 3-4 seals lying on the beach, which rotted after a few weeks, listened to the hunters tell of shooting many baluga and actually getting three to shore while the rest sank and chassing down caribou down with snowmachines. It seems to me that to hunt native/ subsistance you should be required to hunt in the traditional methods, and with traditional style equipment. Ie no modern high powered rifles, no high speed boats to chase whales, and no 4wheeler or snowmachine to chase other game. Actually the subsistance I saw was the native store. Now I am going to up set even more folks. I also think that if you are going to hunt with black powder/ primitive weapons it should be with cap and ball or flint lock. Some of the "modern" black power is little more than a hunting rifle without a brass case to hold the powder and shot together. Just my two cents worth.
    Actually, I doubt "most" of alaska has lived in villages...so your directly experienced insight will be shared by a minority. I've seen and heard the things you describe as well and it makes me sad and while it's not the majority of subsistence off the roadsystem...it's entirely too common. Traditional means are nearly dead except for non-traditional races using them under the concept of fair chase. The only guys I know in the bush that bowhunt (me included) are not even born and raised in AK much less native. But, I do know a fair amount of very skilled hunters that fill the community's freezers and are outstanding outdoorsmen in many respects, and I hang my hopes that they will have an infectious effect on those around them.

  10. #10

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    I taught school in a village last year and I literally could not believe how much went to waste. Everything is frozen for a majority of the year, but there were whole caribou that were left unbutchered, Geese that were shot and thrown in the dumpster and numerous foxes that had been shot and left on the front porch. All of these were just frozen, waiting to rot in the summer. While I was there a cub (2-3 year old) Polar Bear was shot along with several Muskox. Now with that said there were a number of younger residents in the village that took their responabilities very seriously. They would run out and shoot a caribou when the herd would pass through and take the quarters to the elders in the village, properly dispose of the remains (take back out to the Tundra) and feast that night on the days fresh kill. Now this was only one village at one moment in time but waste of natural resources seemed a lot more prevelant especially among the "baby boomer" generation. Most of the younger crowd seemed very respectful and genuinly interested in maintaining their resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by redale View Post
    Like most in Alaska I have lived in the villages. I can think of and I believe have photos of 3-4 seals lying on the beach, which rotted after a few weeks, listened to the hunters tell of shooting many baluga and actually getting three to shore while the rest sank and chassing down caribou down with snowmachines. It seems to me that to hunt native/ subsistance you should be required to hunt in the traditional methods, and with traditional style equipment. Ie no modern high powered rifles, no high speed boats to chase whales, and no 4wheeler or snowmachine to chase other game. Actually the subsistance I saw was the native store. Now I am going to up set even more folks. I also think that if you are going to hunt with black powder/ primitive weapons it should be with cap and ball or flint lock. Some of the "modern" black power is little more than a hunting rifle without a brass case to hold the powder and shot together. Just my two cents worth.

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