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Thread: KENAI drift-only proposals

  1. #1
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default KENAI drift-only proposals

    Quote Originally Posted by MIDDLE RIVER MADMAN View Post
    What happened? Been pretty quiet for a few days.........
    I was thinkin' the same thing, so here goes....

    It's been a while since we tackled this topic (before the mods opened up this special management forum) but now another season is past us and the BOF meeting is looming in the not too distant future. Let's see what folks think now regarding the specific proposals in the book.

    Here's the slew of DBO proposals on the books for the 2008 BOF Meeting.

    283 - Add DBO Thur (Crawford)
    284 - Add DBO Thur (Moore) "no guides" implied but not specified in the actual proposal
    285 - Add DBO Thur (KAFC)

    286 - Add DBO Fri (Richardson) no guides

    287 - Add DBO Tue (Maw) above Soldotna Bridge

    288 - Make it DBO Sun Wed Fri (Sanderson)

    289 - Add a DBO day each successive year until 2013 when the whole week becomes DBO. (Hahn)

    290 - DBO all week (vague, at least three years?) while studies are completed (McCombs)

    WOW! What a menu. Buffet or ala carte?


    It might be helpful to use this old thread as a reference...

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ead.php?t=9667
    Last edited by Brian M; 12-08-2007 at 11:58. Reason: Admin made a mistake! Oops!!
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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  2. #2

    Default DBO

    I'm not a huge fan of DBO and honestly it's primarily for personal reasons. I have a boat that I keep on the middle river in the summer and I love taking it out for a couple hours here and there a day and fishing by myself- In the middle river you really are by yourself on most days- because boat traffic is pretty light.

    Drift days are not the utopia that Les Palmer, anglers and non-angler on this forum make them out to be. I was out there on the last Monday this July and saw people oaring like mad to beat you to a hole, sitting on anchor right in the middle of holes and clogging them up, and fighting fish off of anchor so the wouldnt lose the primo spots. Witnessed a few powerboats dragging driftboats upstream as well, from Beaver Creek to Eagle Rock. This stuff is going on with just the locals, private anglers, and guides bringing their buddies out- you would atleast double the number of boats on the river if you opened it up to the guides- I would assume a lot the Kasilof guides would be jumping ship to the Kenai- especially in late July.

    Driftboats are fairly cheap, so are catamarans, and rafts. The lower Kenai is a pretty calm peice of water If it wasn't for the boatwakes you would be safe out there in a pram. I think by going DBO you would have an explosion in users. It's a big investment to get into the powerboat fishery- you can get a servicble second-hand driftboat for under three grand. Imagine how much the guides would be able to expand their fleets- Buy a guide license for a 18 year old kid and pay him 100 bucks a day plus tips to row a seven or eight thousand dollar driftboat all summer.

    It would take some investment by somebody- parks, the city of Kenai, private landholders, to get some more launches on the river- rowing to the Kenai landing against the tide or a wind gets pretty old. You think that the ramps are zoo now wait until everbody has to park two vehicles just to go fishing.

    I have no problem with adding another DBO day- proposals 283,284,and 285 seem reasonable and fair. The big question is guides- will they be excluded? 286- the Friday DBO would suck for those powerboaters that like to take a 3 day weekends to go king fishing- This would effect a lot of out-of-town private anglers. DBO Sunday? Would this include another no-guide day soetime during the week?

    The other proposals are a bit much- powerboating definately should have it's place on the Kenai- we just need to find a way to freeze or cut the number of current users or spread the effort out a bit so everybody isn't so congested down on the lower river.

    Bring back the no King fishing Monday.

  3. #3
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    I would like to see a DBO day on the weekend (Sunday?), though I would not support the river going exclusively DBO. Access matters, and while the habitat needs to come first, there are other methods for achieving the desired result without completely kicking some user groups off the river. Perhaps a total of 3 DBO days, with one added this year and one next?

    If forced to choose from the above list, I would throw my support behind 286, or possibly 288 if it meant that Mondays would no longer be DBO.


    __________________________________________________ ______

    Note: For anyone who read this thread prior to Saturday at 11:00, there was some text at the bottom of the original post which was not from the author. I accidentally inserted that text into his post while trying to make one of my own. Sorry for the confusion.

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    Default Weeding out

    So this thread ought to weed out those that recognize the habitat problems imposed with too many motorized watercraft, and the need for drastic changes, from those that place a higher priority on opportunity and the status quo.

    In my opinion, fishing for Kings on the Kenai River should be from craft powered by oars only, period. To answer the immediate questions that arise - no anchors, drifting and holding till you can't. Maybe some fish would get up to the middle river and the effort would be more spread out compared to present.

    Phased in over time to allow the development of infrastructure to accomodate the parking and launching would get me to support the Hahn proposal, although I would modify it to take 10 years to convert to DBO.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Brian why take a non guided day and make it db day,lets go for the back to back db days monday and super tuesdays....oh ya.....

  6. #6
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sheep man View Post
    Brian why take a non guided day and make it db day,lets go for the back to back db days monday and super tuesdays....oh ya.....
    That would be great! I wasn't set in my ideas, just thinking out loud.

  7. #7
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default

    I believe there is strong support for more DBO days.

    As a powerboat owner, I know it works against me as an individual (along with the co-owners of my vessel), but there can be no doubt that a drift-only day will tread lighter on the resource than a powerboat day.

    Yes, there will be social disruption to the fishery, and much of what makes the current DBO Monday so special will be lost as more and more participants join the ranks of non-powered drifters.

    It will require a huge collective capital investment in terms of boats, new launches/take-outs, additional parking lots.

    Folks will have to learn a new way of navigating and sharing the water... it will be a very different game with hordes of non-powered craft than what we are accustomed to with powerboats. Many will be unable to fish the faster runs because rowing those flows will simply be beyond the capability of even some of the most accomplished, physically fit oarsmen. Be prepared for more lots more crowding in the easier-flowing holes.

    I've heard a lot of concerns about anchoring. That's an issue from multiple perspectives... hole-hogging, safety, damage to redds. The appropriate do's-N-don't's and where-N-when's will require a strong education campaign that promotes river etiquette and stewardship.

    Change is always painful... even when it's for the greater good.

    If another DBO day is added next year, I previously posted that my preference would be to position it mid-week from the existing Monday to get the most benefit out of the purging/flushing effect on hydrocarbons... basically a twice weekly flushing. I think having it on a Thursday would be preferable so as to keep Fri/Sat/Sun intact for the existing powerboat fleet.

    I can also see the upside to back-to-back DBO days from the standpoint of DB-owners having a chance to wet a line on multiple days in a row. Staggering opposite mid-week days means that folks from out-of-town will have to make two separate trips to enjoy two days on the river. The downside is that you reduce the purging effect on the river. It'll be a longer purge, but it's still only once a week.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Default Db-thursday

    My thoughts on another drift day are.... 283 - Add DBO Thur (Crawford)
    Thursday…. Yes Drift Boat Thursday day.... very one can fish it. No discriminating of user groups, for 24 hours that day you can fish the river from your oar boat, lets keep it simple and lend a helping hand when needed. Monday works so well lets make Thursday even bigger and just see if all these problems exist, not enough parking, hole hogging Blah Blah Blah. If a boat is on the anchor,,,, well its just like another rock in the river, go around it.


  9. #9
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default What if...

    So what if another DBO day(s) passes at the 2008 BOF?

    Unlike the scenario when DBO Monday was first decreed, the next DBO day will for the first time deny a user group time on the water. In contrast, DBO Monday was basically a freeby.

    The regs used to read no guides Sunday and no boats Monday (except Memorial Day). Then about 1999 (chime in with corrections if I have the wrong year), Mondays in July were declared DBO. For the angling community, it was an instant hit... right out of the ballpark! And nobody had to be "disenfranchised" in creating the drift-only fishery. About 2002, DBO Monday was so popular that it was decreed for all of May and June as well... again another freeby. All winners, no losers... no harm, no foul.

    Fast forward to 2008. A segment of powerboat owners are likely to play the "disenfrachised" card if a decision comes down in February. From there, it usually takes a month or two to actually get the thing written into law. By that time a lot of guides or boat rentals will already have their season booked. So my question is would the next DBO day(s) actually be enforceable the very same year the decision comes down?

    Or would they have to wait for an effective date of 2009 to accommodate prior powerboat bookings?
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Very good question Doc. I wish I had the answer . I’m sure there would be a lawsuit along the way if it was pushed in this year .

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    Default depends doc

    The Board has the authority to enact regulations for the coservation and development of the fishery. Therefore, it has the power to use the hydrocarbon, turbidity, and erosion issues to make the conservation case. It also can decide that no user group is removed - just a method - powerboats are not users as a class unless a judge makes them a class. The Board of Fish deals with anglers and this regulation would apply to both guided and non-guided. So I think the record can be made very well for them to pass the regulation.

    However, the Board in the past has recognized issues such as booking and could very well have a starting date of 2009 but I do not believe they would have to do it.

  12. #12
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Default

    is that even something the BOF can regulate?
    Isn't that DNR's job?

    I'd support as many DBO days as possible, especially above soldotna bridge...
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  13. #13
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    I'd support as many DBO days as possible, especially above soldotna bridge...
    Why specifically above the bridge? I do believe that there are cabins above the bridge that can only be reached by boat, while the lower river has an extensive road system and can more easily be accessed without a powerboat. That should probably be considered.

  14. #14

    Default Boat only access

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Why specifically above the bridge? I do believe that there are cabins above the bridge that can only be reached by boat, while the lower river has an extensive road system and can more easily be accessed without a powerboat. That should probably be considered.

    Yes, there are many cabins up that way with boat only access.

    If a DBO day is added, then you will still have power boats running the river to find a location to get out of their boat and fish reds. I don't think that a new DBO reg will be able to say "Absolutely no power boats can be on the water", while there are still so many boat only access properties along the river.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Thanks Charlie. I guess I showed my ignorance there, as I didn't understand that DBO days only pertain to fishing. I thought that no powerboats at all were allowed. If one can still use a powerboat for access, then I see no reason not to add more DBO days.

  16. #16
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default sort of on topic

    I'm pretty neutral to adding drift boat days. If the river truly needs it, then go for it! Just out of curiosity, though, have the hydrocarbon emissions near the Kenai docks been studied, and compared with levels upriver from Kenai? The reason I ask is that many commercial fishermen are clamoring the loudest for something to be done about power boat use on the Kenai; are their hands clean, or do they also contribute to inriver pollution? If they do contribute to in-river pollution, then what steps are they taking as an industry to reduce their impact? Theoretical stuff, of course- I haven't seen actual numbers showing hydrocarbon levels downstream of the Kenai port vs upstream of it.

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    Default dbo

    since over 90% of the activity is below the bridge shouldn't any restrictions be there rather than above it?

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    Default No Power Boats On Dbo Days

    What I would like to see is no power boats at all on Drift boat Mondays. There is always boat wakes in the lower river on Mondays especially in July. It would just be nice to have one day of no pollution, no noise, and no wakes! even better would 2-3 days a week! BC

  19. #19

    Talking And vice versa.....

    No drift boats during the power days then....

    It sure is a pain dodging them all while I'm trying to go upriver.

    Although....sometimes it's kinda fun. Like running a slalom course!

    All in fun.

  20. #20
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    Default Love another DBO day!

    I personally would love another DBO day--or two or three! It would also be nice to not have power boats at all on the river for DBO days but do not see that as a feasible option with folks needing use for access to summer homes and the like. As far as a resourse management and natural impact effect on the river, I think additional DBO days make sense. They would allow additional access for those who prefer DB's and would benefit water quality.

    Now how much of my preference for additional DBO's are for personal vs. environmental reasons--I really cannot tell since I am very biased for DB's. Love mine, just purchased a newer one last week, and do not have plans to enter the power boat fleet anytime soon. Do not get me wrong, I like to fish out of power boats too, so long as someone else is driving. So for now, I stick to the Kasilof and upper portions of the river except on Mondays--except for a couple late, overnight floats. Its hard however for us folks that live here year round--my office is .3 miles from the river--and have to take off work to fish my hometown river. I do it happily, just wish I had more options including a weekend day.

    Very interesting topic and thanks for bringing it back to the top--sadly however, its one that no matter the answer, one user group or another will be displeased.

    Will
    Since the World is 2/3 Water and Only 1/3 Land, Figures the Good Lord Intended I Fish More Than I Plow.

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