Here it is
Here it is
so was that fine $10,000 each or did they each get $2,500 in fines?
That is a pretty expensive caribou hunt. I still like the idea that someone had when this all started and they should of held them to the same standrad they hold anyone to when they shoot a bou or any other animal in Alaska. They should of quartered their vehicles up and carried them back to the road. I would like to attend one of their outreach programs to hear what they have to say...
If thats a hit on all the military than I take it to heart because I am one of the active duty military members. There are plenty of hunters that are not in the military that do just as stupid if not more things out there so dont hold everything against the military.
It did not sound to me like Akres was pointing the finger. The article talked about part of the restitution being that the trespassers have to teach outreach for new military personnel. That outreach should be open to the public as it was on public land, but doubt that will ever happen. So I agree, it would be interesting to get feedback from a military forum member on what those involved have to say.
I also find it incongruous that a crime was committed yet the names are protected. Just does not sound like a fair playing field to me. Too bad for them if their names get published and they have to weather some ridicule and chastising. Personally I hope the News Miner gets the names via the freedom of information act. Hopefully someday we can get the whole story.
Who cares about the names. They paid thier fines, got the trucks and caribou out, and I am sure have suffered enough ridicule and chastisement. This thing happened over a year ago, and we are still beating this dead horse. Why don't we move on and talk about hunting, not a mistake that they were not the first to make, and I am sure won't be the last.
after all they were required to pay $2500 each (+ $175 for the vehicle owners). and distribute information to military personnel on bases in Alaska about “Leave No Trace” and “Tread Lightly,” For gosh sakes haven't they been through enough"If you look at the blogs that have been online about this, some folks would like to publicly humiliate these folks and one way to do that is release their names,”
I agree, leave them alone, they paid the price for their mistake. Find someone else to bash.
"after all they were required to pay $2500 each (+ $175 for the vehicle owners). and distribute information to military personnel on bases in Alaska about “Leave No Trace” and “Tread Lightly,” For gosh sakes haven't they been through enough"
And that didn't include the approximate $32,000 it cost them to get the vehicles out and running again. Then there spouses will NEVER let them live it down. "We" may not know their names but everyone in their squadron does and they have no doubt received enough harassment. Just let it die.
And just when I thought everyone got they're fill of this a year ago! Here we go again..... Thanks Alaska Cub!...BLah BLah BLah BLah BLah. If you care,It's in the paper, read it there! No sense in putting the forum in a tailspin once again!
Be safe, and enjoy your time outdoors!
"I'm not here for a long time! I'm here for a good time!!!!!!!!!!!"
For those who think the names should not be released, would you also support not releasing the names of others who violate F&G laws? The Trooper reports are full of people's names every day who are simply accused of breaking the law, even if they are later aquited of the offense. I fail to see why these fellas should be treated differently. 99% of all offenders have their names in the public record for all to see. Only juvenile offenders have their names protected under our laws. Either change the law and protect everyone, or apply the same standard that is applied to the rest of the population and release the names.
Absolutely agree! Not that I really give a **** who they are, what provides them with privacy that others arent afforded. Heck I got a ticket a couple years ago for folding up a cardboard box and putting it in a campfire pit at one of the camping spots on Coal Mine Rd. The state didn't have any problem putting my name in the police blotter in the paper and I caught all kinds of **** from my buds over it. So the whole public secrecy thing is really BS.
As to why bring this up.......its in the GD newspaper and was a topic of discussion forever here and no one ever knew what their actual final punishment was. As to the $32,000 they spent in recovery fees, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say those fees are highly exagerated cuz I am doubting very highly that a few Air Force airmen could **** $32,000 CASH. Anyway its over and thats the final word from the newspapers, and inquiring minds have wanted to know!
Last edited by Brian M; 12-07-2007 at 12:49.
I think we can all agree that what these knuckleheads did was inexcusable. However after reading a lot of this thread I think that a lot of you are only considering part of their punishment. If you think for one minute that these guys only punishment was to pay a $10,000 fine, $27,000 for vehicle recovery and repair, and $175.00 each for the drivers, and community outreach to other military members about the Tread Lightly program you are mistaken. Being a military member myself for 23 years I know that the worst punishment will come from the military itself, and you will never hear about it. You'll never hear that this could end the careers of these Airmen, that they can and probably will be punished under the articles of the UCMJ, that they can be fined by the military itself for behavior unbecomming an Airman. How many of you would lose your job over something like this, how many of you would be fined by someone other than the state? I can also guarantee that even after they PCS this topic will not dye in Alaska. It will become a part of every persons in processing briefings. This is a black eye for the Air Force in Alaska and every effort will be made not to repeat anything like this again in the future. I can only imagine how pi**ed the Commanding General at Elmendorf is!
I'd wager that their careers were severely damaged if not ended. I'd assume they get 3's on their performance reports which would ,conservatively, set them back about two years for promotion. Figuring about $200 base pay increase per month, again conservatively and not including the increased housing allowance and cost of living allowance, that's another $4800. It's possible that they were demoted so that's another $4800 assuming two years to get back to where they were. There is also a chance they forfeited a percentage of their pay for a few months. Put in base restriction, additional duty, no chance at a decoration (helps with promotion), and being blacklisted from the good TDY's, they could have taken a beating. The 3 performance report these days pretty much ensures they will be unable to reenlist if they are first term airmen. So, it is possible that one mistake could end their career.
It is likely that this could have cost them well over $10,000 in lost pay on top of their other fines, and ended any aspirations at a career in the Air Force.
FYI this is the usual punishment for a DUI/DWI except a demotion is guaranteed
speculation, for all anyone really knows all they received was a LOR.
I dont care one way or the other, I dont care if the names every get released, the only thing that bothers me is that they are being treated differently than anyone else. Look how many make the paper that are just being accused of something, have not been proven or pleaded guility?. If I was stopped and ticketed for peeing along a remote road you can bet my name would be in the local paper.
And what does knowing their names have to do with anything?? You don't think they are getting punished enough? I don't care who they are, I only care that they made a huge error in judgement and are now paying for that error. I don't see the big deal in AlaskaCub posting this info either but the whining about their names not being published is ridiculous. Winter's not even half over people, try and find something a little more productive to talk about.
so did they salvage edible meat of the bou they shot? If not they should be fined for that as well, their names should be of the public record...
I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.
I personally can care less who these guys are (and I've pushed for less vitriol throughout these many posts (threads?))
That said, it seems to me that their names should be public knowledge. It's wrong that most get identity disclosure and these guys don't.