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Thread: punching caribou tag

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    Question punching caribou tag

    i have been reading about all the shooting along the steese intended for caribou. isn't it currently the law that if you shoot AT an animal in alaska and miss, you still have to punch your tag?
    also, rather than restricting residents with draws or teir hunts, wouldn't it be better to divide the number of hunters over more days to make it a safer and more enjoyable hunt -which would still allow all residents to participate. if you want to restrict it, make it resticted to youth, handicapped, and/or new hunters(1st time license buyers to promote the sport of hunting). that would get the experienced "snowmachine snipers" out.

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    New member AKDSLDOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holly View Post
    i have been reading about all the shooting along the steese intended for caribou. isn't it currently the law that if you shoot AT an animal in alaska and miss, you still have to punch your tag?
    .
    NO, If you shoot and "WOUND A ANIMAL" and cannot recover it, you must punch your tag. But to shoot "AT" a animal and miss, you do not need to punch your tag.

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    Member lab man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDSLDOG View Post
    NO, If you shoot and "WOUND A ANIMAL" and cannot recover it, you must punch your tag. But to shoot "AT" a animal and miss, you do not need to punch your tag.
    Actually I think holly is right. Not that anyone follows that law, but technically I think that's how it works. The law may go as far as saying if you "hunt" an animal and don't harvest it you have to punch your tag.

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    Sorry but Holly is wrong and AKDSLDOG is closer to correct. In fact the regulation booklet states "harvest tickets must be carried in the field and must be validated by cutting out the month and day immediately upon taking game."
    There is no requirement to validate the tag if you lose a wounded animal. However, I have not researched the actual regulation this comes from but even if not required, the ethical thing would be to punch the tag if you lose a mortally wounded animal.

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    Default Not so sure

    I'd like a page or section of the regs that one (shooting at) came from! Don't believe I've read that.

    Even the "wounded" comment I've only seen for bears in units 1-5 and unit 8 (PAGE 24 of regs).
    **However if you wound an animal and lose it and continue on hunting in any unit your character is definitely in question!**

    See definition of bag limit (page22) for all your "shooting at" ideas. If I go Ptarmigan hunting and miss 5 birds do I count those? Dont think so.

    I hope everybody checks the regs for theirselves before they blindly believe ANY internet post! INCLUDING MINE
    Not a slam to anyone else because all of us are wrong BUT some youngsters are committing this site's info as the gospel.

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    Default For an Interesting Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill S. View Post
    Sorry but Holly is wrong and AKDSLDOG is closer to correct. In fact the regulation booklet states "harvest tickets must be carried in the field and must be validated by cutting out the month and day immediately upon taking game."
    There is no requirement to validate the tag if you lose a wounded animal. However, I have not researched the actual regulation this comes from but even if not required, the ethical thing would be to punch the tag if you lose a mortally wounded animal.
    Now go to the reg book and read the definition of "Take". Might enlighten you and others.

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    Default Noted

    Does that mean I'm done after day one on any hunt? I "attempted to take"??
    Good discussion. This is why everyone needs to read on their own. NOT just take people's opinions here.

    On the bright side: By the definition of "take" I had an extremely successful year! I have to go change my answer in the sheep hunting poll now!

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    Quoted word for word from the book.

    Under definitions. "TAKE": "taking,pursuing,hunting,fishing,trapping, or in any manner disturbing, capturing,or killing or attempting to take, pursue,hunt,fish,trap or in any manner capture or kill fish or game."


    PAGE 14, 05'-06' REGS, quoted as read. "Animals disturbed while hunting do not count against your bag limit; However, a person who has wounded game should make every reasonable effort to retrieve and salvage that game."


    Personally, If I wound a animal and know I hit it, i.e. blood sign's. and can not find that animal, I will punch my tag. I am a ethical hunter so there for that is what "I" would do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDSLDOG View Post
    Quoted word for word from the book.

    Under definitions. "TAKE": "taking,pursuing,hunting,fishing,trapping, or in any manner disturbing, capturing,or killing or attempting to take, pursue,hunt,fish,trap or in any manner capture or kill fish or game."


    PAGE 14, 05'-06' REGS, quoted as read. "Animals disturbed while hunting do not count against your bag limit; However, a person who has wounded game should make every reasonable effort to retrieve and salvage that game."


    Personally, If I wound a animal and know I hit it, i.e. blood sign's. and can not find that animal, I will punch my tag. I am a ethical hunter so there for that is what "I" would do.
    There in lies the rub with what others know. The segment you quote on Page 14, ONLY speaks to the "disturbing" factor, as not counting against your bag limit. All other aspects detailed in the "Take" definition still apply. Don't believe me? Call the Atty Generals office. They have successfully prosecuted cases on these factors. Mostly on cases when other evidence has been light, but savvy Troopers know this law and will cite you for it when it meets their end goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    There in lies the rub with what others know. The segment you quote on Page 14, ONLY speaks to the "disturbing" factor, as not counting against your bag limit. All other aspects detailed in the "Take" definition still apply. Don't believe me? Call the Atty Generals office. They have successfully prosecuted cases on these factors. Mostly on cases when other evidence has been light, but savvy Troopers know this law and will cite you for it when it meets their end goal.
    I totally agree with you. My fatherinlaw is retired F&G (23YRS) then sat on the BOG for another 4-5yrs. I understand the reg's pretty darn well, but as you stated there are some that can really mess you up (hopefully Mr. F&G guy/gal is in a good mood that day type of deal ).

    Heres my final suggestion in this matter, and again, this is "ME" and my opinion only.

    1. Know what you are shooting at. know whats beyond your target. Take responcible shots that you know you are capable of, ONLY.

    2. If you do hit a animal and wound it, take the time (no matter if it takes 2-3 days to conferm) to track the animal and recover it.

    3. If there is great evidance that you hit the animal and cannot recover said animal, punch your tag and call it a year.

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    So if I see a caribou out 1,000 yards and attempt to get closer to him, which can be defined as pursueing or attampting to take, and I can't get close enought for a god shot, I need to punch my tag because I pursued and attempted to take? Those that try to get closer to sheep and find they should take the shot because they wouldn't be able to salvage the animal, or it saw them and went over the ridge, have to "punch" their tag and stop hunting because, after all, they did attempt to take and did pursue the animal.

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    I finally found it:
    5 AAC 92.010(B)
    (b) After killing an animal for which a harvest ticket is required, the hunter shall remove immediately, before leaving the kill site, the day and month of the kill from the harvest ticket without removing any other day or month, and shall keep the validated harvest ticket in possession until the animal has been delivered to the location where it will be processed for human consumption.

    You will notice that the actual regulation states killing, not taking. My origial answer stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill S. View Post
    So if I see a caribou out 1,000 yards and attempt to get closer to him, which can be defined as pursueing or attampting to take, and I can't get close enought for a god shot, I need to punch my tag because I pursued and attempted to take? Those that try to get closer to sheep and find they should take the shot because they wouldn't be able to salvage the animal, or it saw them and went over the ridge, have to "punch" their tag and stop hunting because, after all, they did attempt to take and did pursue the animal.
    I read how it is stated in the book and can really see a big issue here. I will make a phone call here in a bit and try to get a AKDF%G'S "opinion" to these questions.

    Now, if I see a game animal at a distance to far for a safe shot, then, yes I would put a stalk on the animal. If I "DON'T SHOOT AT" or "SHOOT AT AND CLEARLY MISS" said animal for reasons (bad shot/not legal/busted stalk) then NO, I would not punch my tag.

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    OK, Heres the skinny of what I have found out so far.....

    I talked with a buddy over at the PALMER F&G on the phone and after explaining the regs in the book and understanding what our question is, they are just as confused as the rest of us! lol..... I called the ANCHORAGE office and spoke with a lady who agrees and has referred me to a gentelman that works in thier "CODES DEPT." who she says will define the term "TAKE".

    Now, as far as punching your tag, here is the low down....( This was agreed upon by all 3 people at F&G, two differant offices.)

    IF YOU STALK A ANIMAL AND SHOOT AT BUT MISS, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUNCH YOUR TAG.

    IF YOU STALK A ANIMAL AND DO NOT SHOOT AT, YOU DO NOT NEED TO PUNCH YOUR TAG.

    HOWEVER; IF YOU SHOOT AT AND "WOUND" A ANIMAL AND CANNOT RECOVER THAT ANIMAL, YOU "MUST PUNCH YOUR TAG".

    If you wound a animal and don't recover said animal, then don't punch your tag and get away with it, well thats just your bad judgement. If you wound a animal and not recover it and get caught, YOU WILL BE FINED FOR A VIOLATION.

    I called the "code of ethics guy" and he is teaching a class, so as soon as he calls me back I will post what "HE" has to say.

    To me (my opinion) the definition of the word "TAKE" is not how they have it defined in the book.

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    Default punch that tag??

    [quote=Bill S.;177505]
    5 AAC 92.010(B)
    (b) After killing an animal for which a harvest ticket is required, the hunter shall remove immediately, before leaving the kill site, the day and month of the kill from the harvest ticket without removing any other day or month, and shall keep the validated harvest ticket in possession until the animal has been delivered to the location where it will be processed for human consumption.
    quote]

    how can i punch my tag at the kill site if i dont recover the animal? How do i know its "killed"? i think its an ethics questions, but that'd be a tough one to prove in court. innocent till proven guilty...

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    With a punch tag and no aminal how do you prove it was a legal aminal???????????????????

    Not to mention wanton waste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    With a punch tag and no aminal how do you prove it was a legal aminal???????????????????

    Not to mention wanton waste.
    I would imagine you would be charged with "wanton waste", "not recovering your animal" and I am sure there would be a few others. I will get these questions awnsered through the ethics board of fish and game and let you all know.

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    There was a thread a while ago where someone shot a deer and, while attempting to recover it he lost it to a bear that was attracted to the shot. This was the right thing to do in that situation. Obviously he was required to punch his tag according to the rules. I don't see this as a case of "Wanton waste" or not attempting to recover the animal. Had he made "every effort" to recover the deer There would have possibly (probably) been a dead bear in a legal? defense of life or property the dead bear would be more a case of "wanton wase." I would probably NOT have recorded the deer by "punching my tag" I would consider this a case of the lesser of two evils. Wrong/Right???? (Please be gentle when raking me across the coals)

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    Unhappy Not so innocent...

    "innocent till proven guilty"

    Not up here with a potential gave violation...

    If suspected of a violation, you've got to prove yourself innocent or you'll pay out the ying-yang. Just follow the rules and everything ends up OK.

  20. #20

    Default Caribou tag punched?

    Good forum..
    When it comes down to court and tickets...you must follow what is in the codified regs...
    5aac 92.010 (b) says; after killing an animal for which a harvest ticket is required, the hunter shall remove immediately, before leaving the kill site, the day and month of the kill....
    The definition of Take has a broad definition, and is NOT in the codified for validating harvest tickets..

    Good ethics could mean that if you wound and animal, yes you have taken an animal when, however only in the brown bear units 1-5, does the codified regs. list that wounding an animal counts against your bag limit.

    As we all know, some animals will survive wounds, and others unfortunately won't.
    ..maybe try contacting the guys that will write the citations..the Wildlife Troopers

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