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Thread: Proposed regulation changes / State Parks

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Default Proposed regulation changes / State Parks

    If you trap in the state park, especially Bird Creek, you will want to go and give public testimony, or you will certainly lose your rite to trap there. the full proposed changes can be found here: http://www.dnr.state.ak.us/parks/asp...inal113007.pdf
    I hope to see you at the hearing!

    (8) Trapping restrictions. (11 AAC 20.011) This new section is added to prohibit the use
    of traps and snares within certain areas of Chugach State Park that are open to
    trapping, including ½ mile radius zones around developed facilities or trailheads and
    along portions of the Seward Highway, within 200 yard-wide corridors along
    designated trails, and within the Bird Creek Regional Park. These restrictions are
    necessary to provide for public safety in areas of greatest public use, by prohibiting
    the use of traps or snares in areas where persons with or without pets might be
    recreating, while still allowing for lawful trapping outside the most heavily used
    public use areas.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Actually that regulation seems like a great one that will ultimately preserve trapping in CSP. If you are trapping in CSP you should follow those rules anyway.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    ak powder monkey, i think you are missing the point, or at least HOPE you are missing the point. Please re-read the proposal and take note that this would eliminate any and all trapping within the bird creek drainage, and any trapping within 200 yards of any existing trail within the remainder of the park along the seward highway........ that my young friend would essentually eliminate any trapping oportunaties for youngsters in Anchorage. Kids whom rely on thier Dad to drive them someplace after school close enought Anchorage that they can get home at a decent hour and finish thier studdies and off to bed while still learning about the enjoyment of trapping. Perhaps you think its only OK for kids in the valley to learn about and have the oportunaty to trap? Why dont you pull out your map and a copy of the trapping regs, and you send me a PM and tell me were I could go to teach my kids how to trap within a 40 minute drive from Anchorage if Bird creek is closed. As far as I know, there are 4 guys running traps down there this year, and NONE of them have ground sets or snares out. All are tree sets for pine martin. This all stems from one rather high profile guy who let his dog run around off the leash, and one trapper who should have known not to set ground sets close to the trail. a regulation prohibiting ground sets within a certain distance would make sense, but not a complet closeure to the drainage. As a trapper, you have an obligation to use good sense in an area used by hikers and other outdoors man, and also, as a pet owner you have an obligation to keep your pet under control in an area that you know is open to trapping. Not a hard thing to figure out, do we really need more regulation to control this...............I dont think so.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Your right monkey, that's a good guideline for trapping in the park. However, drawing a line on a map, and enforcing that line in the field are 2 different things. That ordinance is not enforceable.
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    Default Powdermonkey move back to California

    I have been trapping in this area for 15 years do you think it is coincidence I have never caught a dog or had a run in with other users. People who don't have direct knowledge of use in the area would serve the trapping community better by staying out of it. Trapping could be accomplished unnoticed in a neighborhood if ethical/ Knowledgable people were doing it. Lets try not to assist their efforts to lock up more of Alaska for non-consumptive users.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapperbob View Post
    I have been trapping in this area for 15 years do you think it is coincidence I have never caught a dog or had a run in with other users. People who don't have direct knowledge of use in the area would serve the trapping community better by staying out of it. Trapping could be accomplished unnoticed in a neighborhood if ethical/ Knowledgable people were doing it. Lets try not to assist their efforts to lock up more of Alaska for non-consumptive users.

    I say make the non trapping public feel better. I know people aren't gonna catch dogs in CSP because I have a working knowledge of how trapping works but most of the public feels threatened, trappers are the minority by far in the park as far as users go (you are the second trapper I've ever heard of in the park) and I feel we should at least show that we are concerned with the other user groups. I think those regulations are a great compromise that will protect our privileges in the future, because it really only takes one idiot to mess things up for all of us. As far as taking kids trapping, is it REALLY that hard to move 200 feet off a trail? Really?

    BTW I've never lived in California... I don't know where you get the idea that I have, I also grew up basically in chugach state park... And I don't know why you think there is no trapping in California because there is... Theres also hunting and fishing and the like. And many of the (hunting, fishing, trapping) laws are much less restrictive than in Alaska.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    Why dont you pull out your map and a copy of the trapping regs, and you send me a PM and tell me were I could go to teach my kids how to trap within a 40 minute drive from Anchorage if Bird creek is closed.
    Peters Creek? Birchwood? Indian Creek (closer than bird creek)? Ship Creek Valley? Its really not that hard to get 100 yards from a trail, especially in the winter.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    I've highlighted areas open to trapping, off of them can be reached within 40 minutes of anchorage. Depending on what part of anchorage you live, the hayflats is also within 40 minutes of anchorage and has quite a few foxes. The girdwood area is also within 40 minutes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails chugach2.jpg  
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    I say make the non trapping public feel better. I know people aren't gonna catch dogs in CSP because I have a working knowledge of how trapping works but most of the public feels threatened, trappers are the minority by far in the park as far as users go (you are the second trapper I've ever heard of in the park) and I feel we should at least show that we are concerned with the other user groups.
    what else should we give up? will they stop at this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by akdan747 View Post
    what else should we give up? will they stop at this?
    Nothing, and yes they will. There is a public outcry to limit trapping in CSP it's like 95% of users, and I believe we live in a demorcracy and so as the majority has spoken regulators have responded coming up with a solution that is fair to all parties.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    Nothing, and yes they will. There is a public outcry to limit trapping in CSP it's like 95% of users, and I believe we live in a demorcracy and so as the majority has spoken regulators have responded coming up with a solution that is fair to all parties.
    A public outcry? Where? When?? And how did you come up with the "like 95%" number?

    By the way, Patrick, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a representative republic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    A public outcry? Where? When?? And how did you come up with the "like 95%" number?

    By the way, Patrick, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a representative republic.
    In Anchorage after the BOG allowed the keeping of wolverines... The 95% is just a guess.

    Representative republic, thats right...
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    that public outcry was short lived, and we still get to trap.

  14. #14

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    Once again the anti's are trying to use public safety as a method of getting around the Board of Game. I can't think of anyone being injured by a trap or snare in the park, and dogs are not the public. Trappers are the public and have every right to use the park for that purpose. Also, trapping has been ruled a subsistence activity and therefore would rank higher than recreational activities. I would guess that most people who use the park for any activity don't know why the park was started. And no, it wasn't for people to walk their dogs.

    Mike

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    I pretty much keep my mouth shut around here but I can not this time.AK power monkey I have to say when it comes to your statement
    "I think those regulations are a great compromise that will protect our privileges in the future,"
    You are sadly mistaken if you think it will stop here if you read through the proposal book you will see time and time again little changes some big that people are proposing. When do we stop compromising and start fighting for our right to trap? California has trapping yes but they have compromised themsleves all the way into cage trapping only. Would you like to run a line with nothing other then cage traps? This kind of thinking will help get us there. Yes trappers need to be responsible in how and where they place their sets and yes it only takes one dummy to cause us all alot of grief. But that doesn't mean the rest should suffer as a result. As far as knowing of only a couple trappers in the area I think if you did a poll of everyone who has a trapping license or even actually traps in Ak very few would be known by most in any given area. Shoot I live in a town of 2100 and don't know all the trappers and there really aren't all that many activley trapping. Many don't even know this web site exist so just because you don't know of them doesn't mean they aren't there. BE carefull what you think is good in life when it comes to laws and rules they have a way of coming back and snake bitting you. Once a privledge is given up in a legal manner it is twice as hard or harder to regain it.
    meats meat don't knock it till you try it

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    I think most of you show what is wrong with the US these days, and how it got that way. Failure to compromise leads to nothing good...

    Who can come up with a better solution that is fair to all parties? I think DNR has come up with a pretty good idea, does it need a little work, probably.

    I think that by not reaching out and AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGING that people have legitimate concerns and trying to mitigate their concerns we as sportsmen are doing ourselves a great disservice as this will only force people to the extreme ends, and lets face it hunters and trappers are in the extreme minority and if we force folks to the extreme end they are probably going to side with PETA. If you can't see that you are blind.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otterman View Post
    When do we stop compromising and start fighting for our right to trap?

    When our right to trap is actually threatened?
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Akpm

    If a law is unenforceable, why promote it? Unless a person has a GPS with the entire trail system on a mapping program, how would they know that they are 200 yards off of a trail? Do they find a place to set a trap and then walk in a spoke like pattern 200 yards in every direction taking measurements?

    As with many other regulations in the state that require distance setbacks, people get fined every year because they leave the road/trail system to be legal, walk away from the road, but because of a bend in the road, become illegal unknowingly. Most maps in Alaska were drawn back before the 60's. Even the Richardson Hwy. to Valdez in not on the correct side of the rivers in many places since the road was upgraded many years ago.

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    Default have you not been keeping up with the US trapping changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    When our right to trap is actually threatened?
    AKPM have you not been made aware of all kinds of trap bans in the lower 48? Our right to trap is threatened on a daily basis. Talk to the people in California, Minnesota just had a major lawsuit, Maine is in the middle of a mess as well right now. OTher states have bans on all kinds of traps. If you do not think our rights are threatened you are very uninformed.

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    Default you need to educate yourself a bit more

    AKPM fish is right as is dave the law is uninforceable and the right to trap is threatend on a daily baisis. Do a little more research friend and you will see. Have you read any or all of the proposals brought to the BOG ? Have you ever submitted a proposal yourself or written a letter in support or opposition to the board I am proud to say I have and make it a habit to do so. You seem to know alot but also have not educated yourself as to what is goin on out there. There is nothing more that the antis want then to takre our rights to hunt and trap away and they are smart and understand they wont get it in big bang they have to whittlel away at them a bit at a time letting us compromise and give a bit here and a bit there Then BANG the rights are all gone. Ask the guys in Washington state or some of the other states that have lost all or most of the rights to trap. If you believe our rights are not threatend you are uniformed or uneducated to what is going on in the anti trapping and hunting world
    meats meat don't knock it till you try it

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