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Thread: Pred control. why isnt it working?

  1. #1
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    Default Pred control. why isnt it working?

    Take for instance the griz baiting thing up on the taylor. When I got my permit, I read the rules. In it it says I cannot shoot a sow with cubs (no biggy) or wolves over bait. I'm even limited on black bears.

    Now I'm not colledge edgumacated but the above listed critters are predators.

    Also on the permit it didnt say griz baiting, it said predator control permit.

    Am I missing something? Why are our hands tied? The F&G folks in Tok are as frustrated as me and they said the program isnt working. what does it take to untie our hands? Its a cull, not a hunt.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    Take for instance the griz baiting thing up on the taylor. When I got my permit, I read the rules. In it it says I cannot shoot a sow with cubs (no biggy) or wolves over bait. I'm even limited on black bears.

    Now I'm not colledge edgumacated but the above listed critters are predators.

    Also on the permit it didnt say griz baiting, it said predator control permit.

    Am I missing something? Why are our hands tied? The F&G folks in Tok are as frustrated as me and they said the program isnt working. what does it take to untie our hands? Its a cull, not a hunt.
    As far as predator control on bears goes; it GUIDES who are doing the damage to the management program.

    GUIDES are actually a very small group (200 or so) of people who have different interest than anyone else hunting or managing wildlife. GUIDES first priority is the "business of hunting", not resource management.

    Regulations say a non-resident hunter has to be "guided" to hunt grizzlies and brown bears and that particular regulation absolutely limits the number of bears harvested. This affects management of predators.

    Changing this regulation is the answer. We need more people hunting bears. NO other regulation change will have an impact. Extending seasons or bag limits wont do it.

    Practically speaking, wildlife management has little to do with "who is hunting" or "how" (guided or un-guided) they are hunting. It has to do with how much game is available for harvest, how much is being harvested and at what rate.

    Regulations like this one that "controls" who and "how" people hunt conflict and complicate wildlife management; specifically in the case of predator (bear) control.

    There are just not enough hunters hunting bears, and bears are not the easiest animals to harvest either.

    There are a number of arguments to be made why this particular regulation is oppressive but your question brings out the most relevant argument for changing the regulation.

    Even in areas where bear numbers are getting out of balance and have become a major issue with wildlife management.............GUIDES have rejected the idea of allowing non-residents the opportunity to hunt bears.........un-guided.

    Guides have not "adjusted" their prices, pooled their resources or made any effort to do their part in managing the predators in areas that are "out of control". GUIDES simply reject the idea of non-residents hunting grizzly and brown bears regardless of management issues..........they still get to sell their hunts while the rest of us try and figure out "how to manage wildlife and keep the GUIDES happy".

    The ONLY argument for the regulation to STILL be in place is so that the State Legislators can continue to line the pocket of a few people; at the expense of all interests.
    Thanks for your post.


  3. #3
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    Take for instance the griz baiting thing up on the taylor. When I got my permit, I read the rules. In it it says I cannot shoot a sow with cubs (no biggy) or wolves over bait. I'm even limited on black bears.....
    I think you've just figured out why it isn't working.

    Shooting wolves over bait is standard fare under a trapping license, and black bears over bait is the same. Why issue baiting permits for brown bear and not allow shooting wolves and black bears, too?

    .....Now I'm not colledge edgumacated but the above listed critters are predators.

    Also on the permit it didnt say griz baiting, it said predator control permit.

    Am I missing something? Why are our hands tied? The F&G folks in Tok are as frustrated as me and they said the program isnt working. what does it take to untie our hands? Its a cull, not a hunt.
    That's just about ate up with stupidity.

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    Mark, whats ate up with stupidity?

  5. #5
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    Mark, whats ate up with stupidity?
    Something that is completely consumed with stupidity.........

    .....like the political games associated with predator management.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    One thing I've been thinking about to make predator control more effective is donating money for fuel to aerial wolf hunters. I've heard that the amount of wolves harvested in below expected numbers I would bet its not worth firing up the plane with fuel prices so high. If anyone in the moose federation is reading this maybe you could put together somthing. This would grow more moose a lot cheaper than hauling orphan calves out to be wolf chow.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Could you get a trapping license and be covered for wolves if they came into the bate? Havn't read the regs on that unit. Not bad that extra 25 bucks goes a long way toward opening up the predator side of hunting.

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    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Could you get a trapping license and be covered for wolves if they came into the bate?......
    Probably not. Trapping season normally ends about the same time that spring bear baiting begins.

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    Don't blame the guides, I know guides that are on the advisory commitees that are pushing for more preditor control just as hard as anyone else. Moose, Caribou, and Sheep, are the guides bread and butter. Back in the 50s and 60s guides and a few government hunters were the only ones doing preditor control. Then F&G made them stop so here we have the results. And with the ballot iniative on the ballot for 2008 it's only going to get worse. I for one will be voting against it, but I seriously doubt we have enough people that care enough to go and vote to defeat it. We did not last time, what's changed?

  10. #10

    Default politics

    It is the political game. Yes, the board passes predator control (taylor grizz baiting) but ties the hands of how. When this was proposed, we asked for land and shoot of grizz. When the board passed this, they then took a break for lunch and came back and took this out of the proposal. Heard that someone made a phone call and told them that it wasn't good politics. Until we can differentiate "predator control" from "hunting" it will not work. Predator control is exactly what it is: culling of a certain amount of animals from an area. What is the best way to do it? Give the people doing it the tools (ie. snaring, trapping, shooting of sows and cubs, land and shoot, etc.) it probably will not work. You can't tie the hands of the people doing it and expect it to actually work. Frustrating to say the least, but until the state gets over the "politcal" look of things, it will not work. Just look at how PETA and Jans and co. are portraying the aerial predator control. They are treating it as a "sporting" hunting event that is fun for the hunters. So sad that 90% of their supporters and readers actually believe it. Until we can get the politics out of game management, things will probably not work very well. JMO

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    Don't blame the guides, I know guides that are on the advisory commitees that are pushing for more preditor control just as hard as anyone else. Moose, Caribou, and Sheep, are the guides bread and butter. Back in the 50s and 60s guides and a few government hunters were the only ones doing preditor control. Then F&G made them stop so here we have the results. And with the ballot iniative on the ballot for 2008 it's only going to get worse. I for one will be voting against it, but I seriously doubt we have enough people that care enough to go and vote to defeat it. We did not last time, what's changed?
    Predator control is accomplished by hunting predators and trapping. Like the 50's and 60's there are still a few GUIDES out there who walk the walk.

    Wildlife managers, GUIDES and any other class of hunter understand that if we hunt game for any reason and we don't have effective predator control we eventually will have to stop hunting game; for any reason.

    GUIDES have an exclusive economic interest in the "business of hunting" and that exclusive interest conflicts with every other class of hunter; and conflicts with wildlife managers interest.

    ONE EXAMPLE of the exclusive conflict of interest is:
    GUIDES lobbied for the regulation that requires non-residents to hunt bears (grizzly/brown) with a guide. The purpose of that regulation is to limit the numbers of hunters; the intent of that regulation is to protect GUIDES economic interest. This special interest regulation affects predator control.

    MANY GUIDES are NOT residents of ALASKA and can not "vote" here.

    MOST RESIDENT GUIDES live in "town" and have other jobs and do not truly rely on the resource to make their living.

    GUIDES exclusive economic interest is obvious to all others; whether pro or anti hunting and so GUIDES are often not credible to many people as the best "example" of a public interest board position.


  12. #12
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    well if you had a trapping liscence you could shoot wolves over bait (in the trapping season), if you had a hunting liscence and a bear baiting permit you could hunt black bears over bait, along with the brown bear over bait... I don't see what the problem is?

    (Overall Predator Control isn't working because we aren't wiping out wolves and bears while continuing to hunt prey species)
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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