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Thread: Non resident permits only?

  1. #1
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    Default Non resident permits only?

    I have never looked at the winter drawing permit supplement before and noticed something odd that I would like to open a discussion on.

    What is the deal with non-resident only drawing's and non-resident and guided only drawing's.

  2. #2
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    It's a way of making sure that no more than a certain set % of tags go to non-residents. Personally, I would like to see the number capped at that percentage instead of a guaranteed allocation, but it's certainly better than the alternative where non-residents win a large proportion of an area's drawing permits. I would like to see a similar system in place for Tok and 14C sheep as well.

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    Residents who don't have faith in random draw insisted that a guaranteed number of permits go to residents.

  4. #4

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    I have faith in the random draw system but I don't see anything wrong with limiting non-residents, do you?

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    Member alaskanmoosehunter's Avatar
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    Default One word......

    R E V E N U E
    Just like the Alaska Corridor 5 mi on each side of the road crap! The state knows that only a few Alaskans are really going to hike in 5 miles before being able to hunt with a rifle. So that area is saved for revenue IMO for the non-resident hunters that are willing to pay thousands to moose hunt.

    Revenue, revenue..........

    JMO

  6. #6

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    Alaskanmoosehunter, i'm not talking about limiting all non-residents for all hunts in this state, just for the drawing permits.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskanmoosehunter View Post
    Revenue, revenue..........
    How does limiting non-resident permits in drawing-only areas create more revenue for the state? It seems to me that it reduces revenue, if anything. If more non-residents won drawing permits for 14A, say 50% instead of 20%, more people would have to buy expensive non-resident sheep tags, thus creating more revenue for the state than resident hunters who do not need to purchase the tag.

    I don't think you're right on this one, moosehunter. It seems like a way to guarantee resident opportunity, despite the fact that it creates less revenue.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Didn't the BOG allow a 50% allocation for the "new" 13D sheep hunt? (It may have been a differernt draw hunt, but the point is that 50% is a lot.) I would like to see more caps on non-resident drawing tags for hard to draw permits-Tok, DCUA, and maybe a couple of others; if residents are drawing more and NOT using the tags, the non-residents draw percentage can be increased.

    Needscoffee: are you specifically talking about the Kodiak bear tags? I know on Kodiak they have res and non-res draws. I suppose on Kodiak they do it so guides can have a predictable number of clients each year. It would be hard to make a living if none of your clients ever drew a tag, but I really don't know why Kodiak is res and non-res draw.

    Tim

  9. #9

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    Tim, they have only alloted 10 permits for non-residents as compared to 41 for residents for the 13D sheep hunt, so basically about 25% which is still a little too high IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45 View Post
    Tim, they have only alloted 10 permits for non-residents as compared to 41 for residents for the 13D sheep hunt, so basically about 25% which is still a little too high IMO.
    Whats a good round number then? 1 tag? 2?
    My beef will always be that residents whine, whine, whine and give little or no effort to really go all out and get that ram.
    Sheep are in areas with lttle or zero guide pressure. I know this for a fact and have the rams to prove it!

    To be fair I've opined for a moratorium on guides having year in and year out exclusive rights in a given area. Many have rams named for pete's sake.

    Sorry for the mini hijack, had to comment on this...and not directing this at you personally, John.

  11. #11

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    So what about those that are new to sheep hunting?? Or have limited amount of time to hunt?? Not everyone can devote an entire years worth of leave to hunt sheep or even want to but WE DO PUT IN THE EFFORT when we go. Go all out?? We're not all spring chickens either so hiking in 20-30 miles isn't an option for all of us.
    I think 10% is a good number for non resident tags. Don't turn on us now that your a non resident Frank.

  12. #12
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default no dog in the fight

    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45 View Post
    So what about those that are new to sheep hunting?? Or have limited amount of time to hunt?? Not everyone can devote an entire years worth of leave to hunt sheep or even want to but WE DO PUT IN THE EFFORT when we go. Go all out?? We're not all spring chickens either so hiking in 20-30 miles isn't an option for all of us.
    I think 10% is a good number for non resident tags. Don't turn on us now that your a non resident Frank.

    Not turning at all, John, thats unfair.
    New hunter? Get educated! hey I've (with many others) tried to help many here! Limited time? Make the time! As a teacher we humped in and humped out to get to work! No years worth of leave needed, thats an exaggeration.
    My take has always been the same, resident or nonresident. My son lives and works in Fairbanks and we'll hunt together and we'll go to our old nonpermit stomping grounds sans guide; so to me it really makes no difference. (Honestly!!) Why should it? Cost of the actual tag?? Bah. Btw, I have always said Alaska's tags were way under priced. UMMMM.... THIS COMING FROM A NONRES NOW...My take is still the same.
    I'm 44 now, wife is 41 (read: not Spring chickens) We'll train and do what it takes--because we want it bad enough! One can make all of the excuses in the world but it comes down to getting it done, new hunter or old;
    20-30 miles hurts just as bad for us.
    I just hear so much kicking about nonresidents from many who won't ever get a sheep anyway.


    Don't think for a second that nonresident tag allocations are going to make any difference for some.
    They just don't want it enough.

  13. #13
    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    You both have good points. This is a good example. I am brand new to sheep hunting. I wish I would have started 10 years ago, but the fact is no one I have hunted with in the past were interested in sheep. I have absorbed a ton of info during the past year thanks to many here and others I have talked with and decided if I were to get my feet wet I'd have to do it alone. My present job doesn't allow me to take a week to ten days off. I simply cannot afford it. I managed to do a 4 day attempt this season knowing full well it was more of a learning trip for the seasons to come. I chose an area that looked and sounded good, threw on my 80 pound pack, and hit the mountains. I hiked into two different valleys and both times got pushed out by snow. When the four days were up I headed home soaked to the bone and much wiser.

    In short there are those of us that WANT to hunt sheep and are willing to WORK HARD for it. We just don't have the resources nor the time others do.

    As far as the nonresident tag numbers, I am happy with the percentages for the new 13D draw areas, but not so happy with the total number of permits. I was surprised to see it was so low.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullkurl View Post
    Not turning at all, John, thats unfair.
    New hunter? Get educated! hey I've (with many others) tried to help many here! Limited time? Make the time! As a teacher we humped in and humped out to get to work! No years worth of leave needed, thats an exaggeration.
    My take has always been the same, resident or nonresident. My son lives and works in Fairbanks and we'll hunt together and we'll go to our old nonpermit stomping grounds sans guide; so to me it really makes no difference. (Honestly!!) Why should it? Cost of the actual tag?? Bah. Btw, I have always said Alaska's tags were way under priced. UMMMM.... THIS COMING FROM A NONRES NOW...My take is still the same.
    I'm 44 now, wife is 41 (read: not Spring chickens) We'll train and do what it takes--because we want it bad enough! One can make all of the excuses in the world but it comes down to getting it done, new hunter or old;
    20-30 miles hurts just as bad for us.
    I just hear so much kicking about nonresidents from many who won't ever get a sheep anyway.


    Don't think for a second that nonresident tag allocations are going to make any difference for some.
    They just don't want it enough.
    As a teacher your off during the summer right, school doesn't start until Sept or late August. Sure wish I had that much time off but my job doesn't allow for that and don't tell me to get another job, I enjoy the one I have. Your comments are out of line. Where did I mention anything about the cost of tags? And that last comment is pure BS, what does that have to do with the subject at hand anywys? I've asked a couple of times for some help when my wife decided she wanted to try sheep hunting so I wanted to try something local. 1 person responded with some info and he did that out in the open for all to see, we were just the only ones to use that info. I'll quit now before this turns ugly. Enjoy your hunting season in Idaho.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45 View Post
    I have faith in the random draw system but I don't see anything wrong with limiting non-residents, do you?
    I suppose not, as long as the other states do it (which they do).

    And allowing a specific number/percentage of permits to go to non-residents is fair.

  16. #16
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45 View Post
    As a teacher your off during the summer right, school doesn't start until Sept or late August. Sure wish I had that much time off but my job doesn't allow for that and don't tell me to get another job, I enjoy the one I have. Your comments are out of line. Where did I mention anything about the cost of tags? And that last comment is pure BS, what does that have to do with the subject at hand anywys? I've asked a couple of times for some help when my wife decided she wanted to try sheep hunting so I wanted to try something local. 1 person responded with some info and he did that out in the open for all to see, we were just the only ones to use that info. I'll quit now before this turns ugly. Enjoy your hunting season in Idaho.

    Wow, relax, guy!
    Never thought you'd get so torqued about a permit issue.
    Ugly? I thought we were having a frank discussion, had no idea you were so adamant or tweaked.

    By the way, teacher inservice typically starts in early-mid August (around the 10-12th) Its a time challenge to hunt anything!

    Had a fabulous season in Idaho, thanks.
    Freezer is full.

  17. #17

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    The problem I have with your post is that you paint such a broad picture of resident sheep hunters as " not being willing to do what it takes" when you simply don't know that to be true, it's an assumption. I've spent hours and hours researching areas via the F&G website, talking with other hunters, and charter pilots. You devoted most of your offtime to finding sheep while you lived here and thats great, good for you and though I really enjoy hunting sheep, I also love hunting big bull moose. So yeah, i'm not a full time sheep hunter but I like hunting them nonetheless. Glad your freezer is full, enjoy!

  18. #18
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default what a load of crap

    pointing out what is right or wrong is not whinning in MHO. Take a look at just about every other state, they ALL LIMIT non resident hunters to a percentage of permits. They also charge a lot more for the tags than Alaska does, so our permits are CHEAP compared to other states.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by akhunter02 View Post
    pointing out what is right or wrong is not whinning in MHO. Take a look at just about every other state, they ALL LIMIT non resident hunters to a percentage of permits. They also charge a lot more for the tags than Alaska does, so our permits are CHEAP compared to other states.
    It is unfortunate, but the path we are on is Draws for all hunts; and plenty of States are there now. Our State guys are meeting with and looking at other State's systems.

    And your right, lots of States have limits on non-residents that discourage them from hunting.

    BUT; Alaska is unique in that nearly all other States don't "require" non-residents to be guided in any shape or fashion.

    It wont be long before Guides claim entitlement to a % of draw our draw. Some States (OREGON) set aside a % of the allocated draw automatically for guides. Those hunts come out of the pool before the draw even happens.

    Will such a "proposal" for Alaska come from a NON-RESIDENT GUIDE? Probably.
    Last edited by AVALANCHE; 12-05-2007 at 21:51. Reason: spelling


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