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Thread: Red dots OK, or not OK?

  1. #1
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    Default Red dots OK, or not OK?

    Are red dot (unmagnified) sights allowed for use on muzzleloaders in AK?

    I think the answer is no, but I just wanted to make sure.

  2. #2

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    They are certainly legal in the regular hunting seasons, but the primitive seasons are another question.

    To make sure, I'd talk to ADF&G. In my eye they kinda beat the "primitive" distinction about the ears. But the legal limits are ADF&G's call, and I'd take a one-word yes or no answer from them over pages and pages of internet opinion.

    I've tried them on the range and during the regular rifle season and found them bulky and cumbersome compared to the bare rifle. Tested alongside a rifle wearing a fiberoptic front sight and peep rear site, I felt the latter combo worked a whole bunch better, both visually and moving through the brush. Being legal, I don't have to change the combo out for primitive weapon seasons, either.

  3. #3

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    Red dots are legal. What is illegal is projected laser sights.
    pat

  4. #4
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    I'll call ADF&G to make sure. I still have to take the muzzleloader course anyway.

    I already have a nice Nikon red-dot on my T/C Omega because I just moved here from Utah where it's ok to use any unmagnified scope during muzzleloader-only seasons.

    If I can't use the Red-Dot, I'll probably sell it, or put it on my 45-70 w/ a scout mount.

    So if Alaska's muzzleloader hunt is supposedly for primitive firearms only are modern bullets, pyrodex, 777, and 209 primers illegal? Are the special muzzleloader hunts flintlock and blackpowder only?

  5. #5

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    Nope. Their point in banning scopes from the primitive weapon seasons is to restrict your range. I agree heartily with that intent. There's no prob with the alternative components. In fact, you just about can't get real black in many parts of the state, much less legally ship it there if you visit for a hunt. Scopes are no prob on muzzleloaders during the general hunting seasons.

  6. #6
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    Currently one trooper will site you for having a red dot the next one will let you go. They themselves can't agree on wheather they are scopes or not.

  7. #7
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    Zeb: Currently any front loader 45 cal or larger with iron sights is legal. There is a group that is trying to get anything other than flint and cap locks banned, but we are fighting that and so far the scope is the only thing they have gotten past. There is a proposal to require only round ball, but I don't think it will go anywhere. Also the game board needs to define. 1. A muzzleloader. 2. A muzzloading Rifle. 3. A muzzleloading shotgun. 4. A scope. With no clear defination, how do you know what is legal or not.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    With no clear defination, how do you know what is legal or not.
    Yeah, I see what you mean... Maybe I'll call 10 different people at ADF&G and take an average of the different answers I get about red dots .

    Is there anywhere to find a clear cut summary of all the muzzleloader only hunts in AK? ...Besides weeding through all the drawings/ registration only hunts?

    Thanks.

  9. #9
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    Who is trying to get all these additional regs passed? If you live in anchorage you may do fine with flint locks but outside of the big city black powder is next to impossible to buy. The weather also does not suit flintlocks very well in the coastal locations and the cap locks can be troublesome too. Going with pbr's also causes more lost game. So why does someone of some group want to change the regs? In my old home state it was the traditional muzzeloaders that kept the regs so stringent. They did not want the sport to become popular. they wanted thier "own" season. I have seen this battle before and it saddens me to see AK fighting it too.

  10. #10

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    I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm on the road right now, but haven't even heard of any such proposals. Point me to a source so I can take a closer look.

  11. #11
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeb View Post
    .....Maybe I'll call 10 different people at ADF&G and take an average of the different answers I get about red dots . ....
    Do it in an email and save the answer. Document everything, and bring a copy with you when you hunt with the red dot.

    Unfortunately, we live in an era where "ze papers" are needed to avoid "ze authorities"..........

  12. #12
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    BrownBear,
    It was the post by Graybeard. Not sure were he got his info.

  13. #13

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    Yeah, I just clicked on yours cuzz it was closest rather than scrolling back up. My bad.

    Still waiting for answers, cuzz I know some rabid rocklock shooters, and though active, they'd never propose anything like he says, and would probably fight the proposals.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm on the road right now, but haven't even heard of any such proposals. Point me to a source so I can take a closer look.

    Check the links in the game management forum for proposals 48, 49, and 50. Someone, Howard Delo, Fred Moore, and ADF&G respectively, wants to define, limit, or clarify the regulations for muzzle loaders.
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

    http://wouldieatitagainfoodblog.blogspot.com/

  15. #15

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    Thanks for the link. As I see them, #48 makes smoothbore muzzleloaders legal, helping clarify the prior references to muzzleloading "rifles." No problem there, as lots of smoothbores have been used for a long time, and most are well over 54 caliber, making them deadly as heck with the right load in good hands.

    #49 Looks like a special interest smooch for round ball purists against conicals. I don't see it having much of a chance when it runs right up the back of what ADF&G is teaching in their own classes. One of those proposals that makes the proposer feel good and pure, even if it doesn't have a snowball's chance.

    The only thing #50 changes is outlawing smokeless powder, and since only one rifle, the Savage, is made to fire the stuff, it seems aimed at the few users of that particular gun. It doesn't affect use of Pyrodex, Triple 7, Amercian Pioneer or any of the other substitutes. I don't have a fish to fry in the anti-Savage pot of lard, so long as they require everyone to use open sights only. With open sights the Savage is no better and no worse than any other muzzleloader, no matter what powder is stuffed down the bore.

    I'll probably put in a letter and talk to some folks opposing the anti-conical proposal. It's justifications are a thin soup and I don't think it will hold up under scrutiny of the board or staff.

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