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Thread: couple of bad rounds (no fires)

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    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Default couple of bad rounds (no fires)

    I loaded up a few casull rounds. I used 27 g H110 powder, CPB LFNGC 300 bullets with Federal SR primers.

    Well Loaded up the cylinder. Proceeded to fire Gun. First two shots were touching, Next two shots were 6 inches to the right. 5th shot just fizzed and spit the bullet. Powder unburned.

    Unloaded gun of the 6th round. Checked casings (nothing abnormalprimers struck), then loaded a fresh one out of the bag. Just shot it into the dirt bank. Then I loaded another round, it might have been one from the original full cylinder. That one fizzed and stuck the bullet in the barrel. Again, unburnt powder.

    What went wrong? Not enough crimp? Bad set of primers? Im pretty sure that powder was good. I loaded up a bunch of rounds out of that can a couple of months ago, and they all worked.

    Im a newbie at loading lead and so far these were the first handloads of mine I have ever had a problem with

  2. #2

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    It sounds like you either have bad primers, or bad powder. One of the golden rules of reloading is to never touch the anvil side of the primers. If they were handled or poured into your hand, oils and sweat will cause them to either be duds or only partially ignite.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  3. #3

    Default Check everything

    Check to make sure you are getting the proper amount of powder in each case, Check bullet diameter, and make sure you donít have some undersize bullets. Double check every thing before you go any farther, if you are some how not getting enough powder in the case then it is also possible you could get to much powder (bad thing) Triple check everything

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    did you by chance clean all your cases in corn cob or walnut shell media? I have had pieces of both stick in the primer hole, and if you dont poke it out with a tooth pick or something similar you will get a mis fire. All that info about not touching primers etc. is pure crap........... I have purposely wadded up a dozen primers in my sweaty hand and touched each and every one with my thumb and index finger before loading them, just to see what would happen............NOTHING, they fired just like always. They are made from fulminate of mercury and that compound is naturally resistant to moisture and contaminants (so I have read) but what does cause primer trouble, is not getting them seated all the way. In your case it sounds like the primer went off but the powder did not go..........other than the case cleaning media being stuck in the primer hole, I really have no idea what would cause that to happen? What kind of lube did you use on your cast bullets? and can you think of anything that could have contaminated your powder charge? I dont think it is a matter of "old" powder, as I have loaded some stuff that is over 10 years old and it worked fine........

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    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    No didnt clean with media, I used the liquid stuff. After the wash I set all the cases in a spaghetti strainer over the heat duct for 2 days to dry, then they sat in the garage for a week before loading so they were dry.

    Primers went straight from box to pan then picked up with primer tube.

    I just used the bullets straight out of the box.

    The tip of my primer seater had a little tit on it. I seated the primers and noticed a small dent on each one. ( I have since filed the tit off) I wonder if that little dimple was causing light strikes?

    I was of course wearing ear muffs, but When the primers went off it was more of a pffff sound. Not a snap. Of course I could have heard wrong.

    I double checked case capacity before I put bullets on. These were all loaded single stage.

    I will shoot a couple more of these tommorow. Loaded single. If they go bang each time, Im gonna assume a crimp problem.

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    Member BigHinER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawken54 View Post
    It sounds like you either have bad primers, or bad powder. One of the golden rules of reloading is to never touch the anvil side of the primers. If they were handled or poured into your hand, oils and sweat will cause them to either be duds or only partially ignite.
    Yeah, I'm leaning towards bad powder. Maybe it got some moisture in it. Maybe check with the manufacture to see if there was/is a recall....my .02 worth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimfirematt View Post
    No didnt clean with media, I used the liquid stuff. After the wash I set all the cases in a spaghetti strainer over the heat duct for 2 days to dry, then they sat in the garage for a week before loading so they were dry.

    Primers went straight from box to pan then picked up with primer tube.

    I just used the bullets straight out of the box.

    The tip of my primer seater had a little tit on it. I seated the primers and noticed a small dent on each one. ( I have since filed the tit off) I wonder if that little dimple was causing light strikes?

    I was of course wearing ear muffs, but When the primers went off it was more of a pffff sound. Not a snap. Of course I could have heard wrong.

    I double checked case capacity before I put bullets on. These were all loaded single stage.

    I will shoot a couple more of these tommorow. Loaded single. If they go bang each time, Im gonna assume a crimp problem.
    You must lay out the cases on a flat cookie sheet to dry. your chances of having moisture in the cases is vary high doing it the way you did to dry them.

    If your bullet lube was sensitive to heat, and your loaded ammo got hot.


    By the way, just for fun, for all the people that think that a little oil on a primer will cause a misfire, try this. Put a drop of oil on a primer and seat it and try it in an empty case. I was surprised at the results, I think you will be also.
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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    you mentioned a small "tit" on your primer seater that left a small "dent" in the primer once installed in the case. I have no personal experience with this, but have read that the fulminate of mercury mixture in the primers is rather hard. Aperantly if it gets "fractured" by squeezing or some similar procedure it can cause the mixture to granulize or turn to powder and then spread between the primer cup and the internal anvil when struck with the firing pin thus causing a mis fire. Now, I dont know if that small dent you mention would be enough to cause that to happen or not, but it's one possibility i guess! Keep in mind, this is just something I read at one time or another and dont even remember the source........so take it with a grain of salt or two.

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    New member George's Avatar
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    Default pftt load

    First, I sure hope no one is using mercuric primers these days! The corrosive nature of that type primer was identified and eliminated by the late 40's. But some may even be circulating around today... all manner of things have been hoarded over the years . About the occassional "pffttt" load instead of bang- sounds like contaminated powder or contamination in the case causing the problem.

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    Default Hmmmm?

    I just checked the Hodgdon website thinking that was a bit light for H-110 but it says you're in the ball park.

    I've run tens of thousands of the old 305LFNgc with 32.0, very accurate load.
    The only thing I can question then is are you using small rifle magnum primers?? Sometimes the regular small rifle primers (non-magnum) don't light up all that H-110.

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    Too little crimp will definitely cause the problem you described. H110/296 requires tight confinement to burn properly.
    To little crimp will allow the primer to kick the bullet out of the case and release this confinement, causing poor ignition.
    BTW, All of Dick Casull's early loads used standard primers, not the magnum variety.

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    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Default

    Im gonna say bad powder. I took the gun out, loaded one shell, and pfft. Powder was all wadded up in the barrel. Looked like ciggarette tobbaco.

    Got home, and set some of the powder I used on a board. I lit it up and when it burned it again resembled ciggarette tobbaco. Brown and fluffy.

    The primers I think are fine, since they are strong enough to lodge the bullet out into my barrel.

    Man now I got 45 rounds to dismantle. Spent alot of time reloading those too.

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    It would seem the only answer to your problem is to "keep your powder dry" rimfirematt.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Okay, got me a new can of powder, a new batch of primers. Took a handful of new loads to the range. First 3 rounds went off, seemed light though. 4th round another snick with the bullet lodged in the barrel again, with a big old wad of unburnt powder behind it.

    I shot some 300 grain XTP's of basiclly the same parameters. H110, primers ect. These had alot more whop to them and all fired just fine.

    SO There must be something on the lead bullets or something that is causing the Powder to not burn right.

    The bullets seem dry and the base of them even have a little copper plate on them. But they are the only thing in the equation here that seems to be having a problem.

  15. #15

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    If it was the same variety of primer, I'm betting they are simply not hot enough to light off the H110 consistently. If they're standards, I'm betting a switch to magnums and maybe a little more crimp pressure will solve all your blues. I've never had problems with bullet lubes fouling powder, and I've tried a bunch of them.

    In muzzleloader shooting I use a concoction of deer tallow and olive oil. Lots more of that is on the patch than on the base of a cast bullet (54 caliber, and the patches are almost dripping with it), and I never have ignition problems even when a load sits in the gun for a week or so.


    BTW- If that 27 grains of H110 is a max load with your current primers, I'd sure back off 2.5 to 3 grains inititially when you switch to magnums, then work back up in search of a new max.

  16. #16
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    I used remington primers this time, last time I used federal.

    I thought about crimp being to light also, I made sure these new loads were good and tight.

    Im wondering if my load is acually too light? Im having a hard time coming up with some solid data for this combination. So I started at 27 grains thinking this should be safe and on the light side.

    Maybe a few more grains of powder in there would help.

    I just did some searching on the net and I cant find any other information that would lead me to think there was incompatibility between the powder and bullets.

    So I wonder if I dare load some up using 30 grains of powder and getting the crimp extra stiff? Im about ready to throw in the towel on this.

    The lead bullets arent that much cheaper than the XTP's anyway.

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    Default

    I sort of skimmed through the responses and there is a lot of generic information here but I think I have some specific input.

    First, I doubt you could "mess up" a primer with finger oils or even water poured on them. I see all this talk about primers and I cannot make one fail. Also it is unlikely that corn cob media caused a fizzle, squib load. The primer would likely blow out the corn cob. I seriously doubt that a CP bullet was undersized. It is possible that a lack of crimp or a bullet not fitting tightly in the case could lead to this but if good brass is used and good loading practice is followed (Case length, crimp after seating, good roll crimp, etc) this isn't likely.

    I have a lot of experience with the 454 and the various rifle primers and have found the Remington #7 1/2 and CCI-450's to be the best but the Federals have worked in the past. Of course a hotter spark for that cold powder will always help.

    As someone pointed out you are at the low end of charge weight for that powder (H110) and it doesn't ignite well in light loads and it well not work below worth a crap at -20 F. You didn't mention the temp but if it was cold and your load was marginal, that is likely the cause. That's a big case and it needs to be full. I've never got a good load with a 300 grain and that powder with less than 30.0 grains, that's where I start. Hodgdons make the powder and they start at 28.5 grains and state; Do not reduce loads below starting levels.... or a bullet could lodge in the barrel. If you want to use lighter loads use 45 Colt brass. You can still use that powder, with a good charge and it will be fine.
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  18. #18
    New member George's Avatar
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    Default 454

    Well, Seems like you've eliminated most other possibilities. Doesn't sound like contamination of powder, case or primer. After looking over quite a bit of data regarding H110 it is one of those powders that gives some of the highest velocities in the 454...BUT it also appears to be a little hard to ignite. You might try either H4227 or IMR4227.

  19. #19

    Default Primers

    I don't believe any US manufacturer makes a primer which contains a Fulminate of Mercury compound. As this type of primer is considered corrosive. Temps. may have contributed to your woes, as some powders are temperature sensitive.
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    How tight do the bullets fitBefore they are crimped? Bullet pull is very important with H110/296 powder. For more info check the boards over at Cast Boolits website. Those guys live and breathe cast bullets.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

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