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Thread: OWWWW....waah waah waah....

  1. #1
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default OWWWW....waah waah waah....

    Okay, so I should remember that any time spent behind the trigger is quality time, but...I took that little VZ33 small ring M98 that I picked up to the sandhill and fireformed some '06 brass that I'd formed into 8X57 and loaded with 200 gr. Speers. Fifty rounds later, it's all I can do to move that arm.
    Never been a huge fan of the 8X57, but I couldn't bring myself to pull this rifle apart with such a pretty bore. In the military stock with all the original hardware attached, and a Swift 3-9 on top in Redfield rings and bases, it gave me about 1 1/2 inch groups at a hundred. Velocity probably wasn't up to much in a 20" barrel, but it wasn't tough to figure out holdover and start busting 'stuff' at varying ranges.
    I think next trip out will be with the 185 Remington corelokt's that are available for 'cheap'. Mebbe the recoil will settle down a mite! Anyone have a good load for the Remington bullet?

  2. #2
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
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    Default There, there, now...

    It'll be ok, Darreld...

    Shhhhhh....

    Those old military 8s don't have recoil pads, do they? Just plastic or metal buttplates. They can whack you all out of proportion to caliber/bullet weight.

    Depending what powder you put behind 'em, I'd ballpark those Hot-Cors of yours in the 2350 fps range out of a 20-inch tube. An 18-inch barrel I know well spits them out just high of 2200, albeit with too much muzzle blast for an 8x57.

    I don't have a good recipe for 185s yet. But 3031 does really well with 125 grain Hornadys, and they're much lighter on your shoulder if you just want to dink around with it at the range.

    I also recommend vitamin I(buprofen) and some menthol rub for that shoulder...

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    Darrel: I would sure be willing to take that nasty old mean Mauser off your hands. J.

  4. #4

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    Haven't tried the combo myself, but a bud is really proud of that bullet in Fed cases on top of a near max charge of 760 with Fed mag primers. I'm not sure the mags are required, but he reports best accuracy with them. I've seen him whack a couple of deer with it, and based on those results I wouldn't see the need to spend extra for Noslers on game.

    And yeah, the military stock on mine is "inspiring" after a long string of hefty loads.

  5. #5
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default Buttplate is steel...my shoulder ain't anymore!

    There was a time in the not too distant past when I pretty much considered myself to be ten foot tall and bulletproof! Well, it ain't the case these days!
    I went two grains under max per the Speer manual for those 200's with H380, mostly because I had some on hand and wanted to burn it up, and because these Lake City 52 headstamped GI '06 cases are quite a bit heavier than most commercial stuff. That load in that case flattened the primers out pretty good, and REALLY gave me a good fireform on the cases! Now they're neck sized, and I'll go back to 4350 or the like and back the loads off a bit.
    I've now got a pile of the 185 Remingtons sitting here. I've got one other small ring 98 that's an 8X57, too, and it's barrel needs to be burned out! That'd give me a reason to rebarrel it.....I'm thinking that there's room in the rack for yet another .257 Roberts or perhaps a .250 Savage! That one's a G33-40 that's been drilled and tapped, so no collector type interest in it, and they make up into a dandy sporter.
    This VZ33 is the Czech precursor to the 33-40, this particular rifle was one built for the Czech bank system, and doubt that it saw much duty other than banging into the ash tray when the guard opened the door for little old ladies. It weighs within a couple ounces of my 94 Carbine! Most of the damage to my bod is because of very poor shooting position, and not having a good 'stock lock' on the thing, letting it get a good head of steam before slamming into my now-portly shoulder.
    The lighter weight bullets are interesting, but I'll have to see how they'll fit in this throat, it seems to be fairly long. I've also got a sporter stock in the dungeon that'd be gorgeous on this rifle, but I need to remove the rear sight base from the barrel before starting on that project.
    I really can't explain why I've always shyed away from the 8mm's. Recent discussions here about the 325 short mag had me thinking about looking for one when I remembered these two rifles in the basement.
    Around these parts, I can't remember seeing a single box of Noslers in any weight in 8mm bore size. Mostly there's 150 and 170 weight Sierras and Hornady's. I happened on these 200 Speers in a bargain basket a couple of weeks ago and snatched them at 50% off...

  6. #6
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
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    Default Noslers

    I don't think you'll find Noslers in any weight other than 200gr. sized .323...

  7. #7

    Default want a 325 WSM?

    Heay you want a 325 WSM? Have I got a deal for you! I am interested in selling my Kimber Montana 325 WSM with rings and bases and 1 box 200 gr factory loaded accubonds plus brass, bullets (200 gr partitions, 200 gr TSX, and 180 gr TSX) and RCBS dies... Would probably let it go for about 3/4 of what I paid for it. I live here in idaho falls and could meet you if you are interested. It is only about 8-9 months old and had about 60 bullets throughe it so far.

  8. #8

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    I'm an enthusiastic fan of Remington bullets on game at moderate velocities such as the 8x57 turns out. If they shoot well in your gun, I'd sure be looking at ways to bring the rifle around to a hunting arm, because I think you'll be very pleased with what the bullet will do on deer and elk.

    Gotta say though, that I'm also a fan of the 257 Roberts in almost any gun. Since the action is already drilled and tapped, I'd be anxious to use up the present barrel, too.

    My favorite 257 is a long-throat built on a LH Remington 700 action for me in the RCBS shop in the early 70's. They used a Shilen 1:10" 8-groove target barrel progressive tapered to sporter weight, and included a sizing die matched to that specific chamber. Many, many thousands of rounds later it will still break an inch with almost any 100-120 grain bullet while cases last nearly forever even with hot loads.

    Go Roberts!!!

  9. #9
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default My Roberts'...

    One is on another VZ33, the other is on a Remington manufactured M1903 Springfield.
    The Mauser got a 24" Douglas, done up by a fella here in town who used to teach gunsmithing at the Colorado School of Trades, and he did me a good job on it. The Springfield is one I got on an internet auction a few years back, and I don't know what the barrel is, BUT, it refused to chamber the WW+P brass! If I use older WW brass, or Remington, they go in like dung through a goose! Shoots well enough that I don't want to screw with a good thing and have that neck fooled with, you know?
    The wife has taken a particular shine to the little Mauser. It's got a piece of Burly looking walnut on it, and there's one spot where three little branch nubs make a peculiar pattern that she's convinced is a monkey's face...so to her it's the 'Monkey Face Gun'.
    I've built .257's for the boys when they were growing up, they're finally coming back around to wanting one again now that they've made the foray into magnum land and back.....they are sweethearts, ain't they?

  10. #10

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    I think you are onto something with the WW +P brass, at least in tight chambers. I haven't mike it, but a bullet slipped into the neck of a case fired in that custom chamber comes real close to dragging. I've been watching that particular detail in anticipation of having to neck turn cases later in their life. I've never followed through and compared weights with the standard stuff, but I'm betting they added a bunch of bass to come up with their +P designation. Interesting enough, I haven't noticed the same thing in the Federal +P.

    If you ever run across one in 257, the Ruger Ultralights are a marvel. The throats are pretty short and won't let you extend OAL even a little, but they sure are sweet to carry and shoot. I have two of them in addition to the Remington, the second coming in on a complicated trade. I had intended to move it out since I already had one just like it, but it's been added to my Cold Dead Fingers collection.

    Your thoughts about doing the Mauser into a 250 are interesting too, though that's not quite as appealing as the Roberts. I'm real fond of my 250 in a Savage 99, though my wife has pretty well taken it over. I've had a couple of 250 bolt guns over the years (a Ruger and an S&L), but they somehow slipped through my fingers. If your wife is anything like mine, I'd forecast that if you built up a light little 250 she wouldn't let you shoot it much but would send you to the reloading bench often.

    I wonder if the youngsters around here are tired of a couple of old geezers getting teary-eyed over such little cases and bores? Probably embarrassed to be seen with us.

  11. #11
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default Benefits (?) of having ten kids...

    The kids' ages span from 34 to 20, and their opinions of me, my talent, the virtue of my experience and such varies...when teens, I was definitely un-cool in the extreme. After they've been bashed around a bit by life, they slowly trickle back once in awhile to ask what I did in those situations.....most times, they still end up ignoring me, but what the heck, for the most part at least now they ain't afeared of bein' seen with me!!! They had a bunch of growing to do before they got REAL interesting to me, other than making me smile a lot as they traveled along life's road. It all works out. I'm quite sure that 'Dad Upstairs' gets some big ol' belly laughs out of all of us once in awhile. It's our job!

  12. #12
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    Thumbs up .257 Roberts

    Last night when I was reading Bear's post about the Roberts, I wanted to comment back, but I thought that might hijack the thread into a different direction than Darreld's starting point. However, now that I see Darreld is also a fan of the Roberts let me say, right on guys!!!

    I also enjoy the heck out of reloading and shooting the Roberts. It is a pleasure to shoot after being knocked around at the range by my .375 H&H. I got started more recently with the Roberts, and put one together four years ago (with the help of my gunsmith) on a Remington 700 (LH) that was originally a .30-06. We rebarreled with a 10 twist Lilja. I installed a Timney trigger, and restocked it with an H&S. It is one of the most accurate rifles that I own...a true tack driver...really. My only regret is that I fluted the barrel at 26". Consequently, it's a heavy rifle with a long barrel in a small caliber, and my applications for it up here are limted. I have taken it black bear hunting in the spring, but did not harvest one that year...I will take it again.

    More recently I've been playing around with a Roberts barrel for my Encore (rifle). I hope to take it with me next week for black tail in PWS. I'm still working on loads, but it is the roughest bore that I have ever seen, so break-in and load development are going slow. However, like I said in the beginning, I really like this caliber and I'm sticking with it! It is not my favorite all time MVP cartridge...that honor goes to the '06. Guess I'm more a fan of the older stuff.

  13. #13
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    I place the .250 AI and the .257AI as two of my all time favorite ctgs.

    My current project is two model 98's with Lilja barrel blanks in .257, a couple of knock your eyes out English walnut stocks, Timney triggers, new bolt shrouds with safeties just like the old model 70's. Grip trap caps, three panel checkered bolt handles. New bottom metal. When I finally get there, they will go down to Oregon for checkering. These our long time project guns for the Grand kids. I've got a new reamer in .257AI for the chambering and a re-size reamer to cut their dies. I've blown the wad and bought Warne base and rings for these two rifles.

    I'm kind of hoping one of them doesn't like theirs!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  14. #14
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default My kids...

    seem to prefer having something that I, or my Dad have actually used a bit. Then they can add their stories to it. After putting that much effort into those pieces, you can't just send 'em off without a proper break-in!.....

  15. #15

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    If you want to have a real ball with the Roberts (or the 250 for that matter), pick up RCBS bullet mould #82004 (Lyman reference #257418). It's a double cavity mould for 100-grain FNGC bullets, and with Lyman #2 alloy and 1400-1600 fps, it never met a rifle it didn't like.

    25 cal bullets are a lot easier to cast consistently than those miserable little 224 bullets, but put your rifles in the same category for small game and plinking. You just can't load enough of them if you have kids around, and you'll be hard pressed for time to load more for yourself even if the kids don't show up.

    Just be sure to use a good copper fouling remover on the bore before shooting cast bullets, and they're likely to be more accurate than anything you have ever put in any particular rifle.

  16. #16
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Another bullet mold to add to the heap? You are so right about the .224 cast bullets, I gave up on them and switched to swageing them, it was kind of fun at first swage the cast bullets at first. I just switched to wire and said to myself "what the hey".

    I get the most pleasure out of cast bullets in the .375H&H for the more modern Ctgs.

    My newest waste of time is a shot maker, If I could just find enough scatter gun addicts to make it worth while to run off a few thousand pounds, I could be happier.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  17. #17
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default What swaging outfit are you using?

    I've looked at a couple of options over the years, but cost or complexity pretty much kept me out of it. I'm looking at options to extend my self-sufficiency, so it's interesting again....

  18. #18
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Darrel, having been, how do you say? worked over the coals by one guy, I've found his brother to be the epitome of fair and a gentleman to deal with. Actually I have die sets from three different makers. The first dies were from the guy I was less than pleased with, the dies are fine, he just got into my shorts on some .30 cal jackets.

    http://www.rceco.com/book.shtml

    His brother I do not trust. What his brother does have, that is good is his books and other media on swaging.

    If you think this is what you want to get into, then by all means, give Richard a call. I have nothing but praise for him and his work.

    If you strike it rich, let me know and I will put you on to the guy that does the high end match dies. You can buy three sets of dies for the cost of one set of his. And takes about a year to get.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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