Does anyone know anything about Broughton Custom Rifle Barrels or Lawton Custom Rifle Barrels?
Does anyone know anything about Broughton Custom Rifle Barrels or Lawton Custom Rifle Barrels?
Lawton?... don't know of them. I have used one Broughton barrel to build a rifle in 6.5. It seems to be a pretty good barrel that required very little break-in. Extremely smooth from the get go and very accurate. Delivery time may be kind of iffy- just have to call and ask. They use a canted land, pull button rifling set up. They stress relieve their barrels. The canted land rifling is supposed to reduce pressure for any given velocity. Don't know about that... but they are very well finish lapped and easy to clean. Here's a link to the company.
Both are top barrel makers. Lawton barrels are the current hot kid on the block among the long range crowd. Lots of new records being set with Lawton barrels among the 1,000 yard crowd.
If you choose to go with Lawton, let him do your install also. The only thing I do not like about Lawton is, he does not make any .224 barrels.
Barney is a joy to talk to!
I am kind of leaning towards Broughton but not sure yet. What kind of moa do you guarantee?
Broughton guarantees 1/2 of 5 shot moa's with most of there barrels shooting sub 1/4 moa. I will also want my action blue printed. I have talked with one custom F class shooter/ custom builder and he guarantees 1/4 moa with 5 shots. One of the reason I am starting to lean towards Broughton is because I called there office the other day and asked to speak with someone who knows the most about there barrels. I ended up having a great 20 min conversation with the president of the company. He assure me if I buy one of his barrels and it does not perform to my liking to send the barrel back. They will then look at the barrel and if it is not correct in anyway in the making they will replace it free of charge. If it is found that the barrel from breech to muzzle is not 0.0001 then they will replace it free of charge and so on.
But one other thing I do like is Broughton stress relieving. Broughton barrels are double stressed relieved at the mill & triple stress relieved in there shop. Where as Lawton only did it one time and then charge you an extra 55.00 dollars to have it done.
I am leaning towards the the number 5 with a 11 to 1 twist.
Click here: Broughton Rifle Barrels by North Manufacturing Co., Inc.
If someone could guarantee me a barrel that shot nothing but .250 groups and allowed me a .250 agg. I would drive south and hit every major bench rest meet in the lower 48. I would come home vary rich!
To pay to have your action blueprinted is a huge waste of money as no one will pay you the money back. Much better to put the money in a custom action.
Take a look at the kind of money blue printed actioned rifles bring used, remember this is the asking price after some sold their rifles and this dealer is trying to make a profit.
I know nothing about Borughton rifle barrels, except I've heard they are good barrels.
But when someone tells me that they guarantee their barrels to give you that kind of accuracy, I SMELL SKUNK!!!!!!!!
No way a barrel maker can control all the other parts that go into making an accurate rifle. More important than all the rest, is the skill of that lever on the other side of the trigger. How in the heck does a barrel maker have any control over how you shoot?
I must disagree with you about blueprinting your action being a waste of time and your comment about barrels capable of shooting 1/4 moa.
Several barrel companies do make barrels that are shooting 1/2, 1/3 and 1/4 and even sub 1/4. I think you missed the meaning of the gentleman's post. Also not only do a lot of custom barrel companies make these claims so do a lot of customs rifle builders that will put it in writing. However, you are not going to take a factory stock, factor barrel etc and shoot these groups but a good custom rifle builder will make you are rifle that will shoot it.
The rifle will be placed is a proper shooting rest, clamp, vise or whatever you want to call it "to take out the human area" and if your rifle is built correctly then your rifle with perform as the other post suggested.
As to blue printing the action all that is really doing is making sure everything is lined up together, everything is working as one, and everything is tuned to as perfect as you can get it.
In other words everything little thing is tweaked as best as it can be.
To look at it an another way if these little things such as tweaking this or that did not work then long range shooter would just be going down to the local walmart and buying factory rifles off the shelve and sticking a new barrel on them. There is a lot more to long distance shooting then just buy and over the counter rifle and putting a new barrel on and old gun.
Most factory rifles are milled to a tolerances of .0005 and higher where "good" custom barrels are .0001. The same sloppy tolerance are found in actions of factory rifle. A blue printing takes that out of a factory action and makes sure the action is married properly as one with the rifle.
Blueprinting your action will and does improve accuracy by a great deal. So does proper stocks, barrels, triggers etc.
I have a broughton 5.5 canted on my 6.5-06........good stuff, I use it to shoot clay piegons.....at 1k yds
It is hard to reply to your post and stay civil after witnessing your lack of knowing what you write about.
What do you think it cost to have a top flight gunsmith blueprint a
action. That's if you can find one that will not try like crazy to talk you into a custom action. Why, because he wants to give you a rifle that has every chance of shooting that .250 group. A factory action you spend a bunch of money on to have blueprinted is when done still a factory action. Except it has a little problem you are (by reading what you've written) unaware of. Did you know that you make a mistake when pulling the barrel on this blueprinted action, you will wipe out the barrel threads? All it takes is to forget a couple of screws. There is a heck of a lot to do, to do the job of building a perfect action or to blueprint a factory action.
How does some one know that you have had a top smith blueprint the action, cause you told them so? When it comes time to sell,good luck.
A custom action on the other hand, no questions asked!
You throw numbers of .0005 and .0001 around like you know what you are writing about. Those numbers prove just the opposite. No factory or custom maker works to that kind of tolerance, why because they can not be verified outside the machine set up.
I stand by what I've written about accuracy, show me a rifle built by any body on this planet that will agg a .250! I say this as a Man that has shot more than a few "0"groups over 30 years. Every one of the small groups I've shot has been with the best equipment that the bench rest gunsmiths can provide. In the best set-up on the bench, using highly developed bench techniques. Still there is a huge element of luck o shoot a group that small. The real world of shooting is not the same as the Internet world of shooting.
Go to matches, shoot with the best, spend a year or two at it and see if you still hold these ideas.
Short of that, read the equipment list on what equipment is used to get in the top money or the top ten or the top twenty. Count the number of factory action. Find one or two in the top twenty?
These people are the real competitors and they ain't shooting on the Internet.
Remember always, we shoot in the
wind, not in the ether!
Try telling the above, to the folks on the BR forums, don't be surprised at the response.
<DIV>Oh by the way Al, yes there are NUMEROUS "good" long distance gunsmith who's machine equipment is dialed in at .00001. You make it sound like this is impossible. I guess it would be for someone who is a gunsmith in there garage and not a true custom rifle builder. However a TRUE custom rfile builder will have his equipment set up at ,00001. As to spending time with long distance shooter and know if they blue print or except there machine work to be ,00001 yes all the good ones do. And the one that are using equipment at .0005 for example then those are the ones that go home every weekend wondering what they are doing wrong or wonder why there gun shoots so good one day or one shot and not the next. But I guess since you made the comment about gunsmith "good ones" not building a rifle to .0001 then I will be glad to add a link to a custom builder that I know for a fact that does. If you are not happy with that I would be more then glad to send you a more links to CHAMPION "WINNERs" 1 st class "F class shooter" that do have there guns to ,00001 and expect nothing else and also build guns to ,0001.
You sound like you are or want to be a gun smith. Anyone can be a gunsmith but not everyone can build .0001 as you so easily pointed out. And that is the difference between a gunsmith and a GREAT GUNSMITH.
But I did so much love your comment about how gunsmith are not doing .00001. That just told me if you are a gunsmith then you are not pushing for the very best rifle or you do not have the equipment to builder the very best rifle. No offence just going on your own statement.
Al, one last thing. I enjoyed your half #@$@# comment to me about spending time around long distance shooter and making my comments about blueprinting ect and how everyone would laugh at me. Well, BIG Al I have spent lots of time around custom builders and long distance shooters and everyone of them I know has there actions blueprinted. And just for a good laugh prior to reading your last message I was on the phone with Big J and I was telling him about your comment about not blueprinting and of course that caused a great laugh.
But of course John knows nothing about long distance shooting he only builds rifles and also won "numerous" 600-Yard championship he has been the 1,000 yard Long Range Champion he won individual State titles he finished fourth in the 2003 Individual Palma match, "numerous Long Range Highpower Championships and multiple second and third place finishes at the Long Range National Championships. John also made the final cut for the U.S. Palma Team that will be representing the U.S. at the Palma Long Range Championships in Canada. So you might want to rethink your smart comment about long distance shooters laughing at blueprinting actions.
Click here: Whidden Gunworks
If you decide you want more links PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK.
Click here: McIntyre Precision Rifles, Inc - Custom Rifles and Gunsmith Shop. Here is just one builder that I know of off the top that nothing goes out his door that is not .00001. As to wanting to know prices his prices are on his web site. Oh feel free to email him and tell him blueprinting is a waste of time or even ask him why someone should blue print and maybe you will learn something.
Of primary interest to any rifleman is accuracy. A lot of factors go into getting a rifle to shoot accurately, including the load, the action bedding, the quality of the barrel, the precision of the scope, and the ability of the shooter. Yes, Al I said the shooter. As I stated before that is why I said clearly about rifle rest, clamps, vises or whatever you want to call the.
But perhaps nothing is more important than the very heart of the rifle, the action itself. The action holds the trigger, which must be crisp and relatively light. The action supplies the fast locktime, which is a major contributor to tight groups. What few shooters know, however, is the trueness of their action and the precision with which it was made.
I wrote a long comment about blueprinting and I see now that this letters can only be so long since it cut 95% of it off. But as I said Al, feel free to look at the custom builder link I sent you for the builder that builds .00001 and ask him why to blueprint and feel free to tell him he does not know what he is talking about. If you would like more custom builders that I personally know that build .00001 please feel free to ask. Not every gunsmith builds lower end guns our builds them in there garage.
Well you got me there, just send the links to the equipment list showing all the factory actions that are winning and I will concede my mistake? I await the links..........
The bit about .00001, really has me in high laughter!
Al, I dont know why it has you laughing I sent you links to two different place one is a world class shooter and the other build top of the line custom rifles in the ,0001. All you have to do is sit at your computer and ask them first hand about .0001. I sent you a custom builder and after you get done laughing at him you can write all the top barrel makers in the usa who also state there top grade barrel are ,0001. Maybe then after you talk with the first custom builder I sent you, you can get some thoughts on how to build a real rifle once you move out of your garage. So instead of laughing trying contact some real rifle builder and real F class winning shooter and you might learn something. Because it is easy enough to see from your post that your thoughts on building a custom rifle is going down to wal-mart and then slapping on a .0005 barrel you get from and joe blow and them poof you have a custom rifle. Far from it. There is so much that goes into building a rifle that is capable of shooting long range sub scores. But I guess if we look at it from your post I guess all these world class shooters did it all wrong by buying .0001 barrel, blue printing there actions and so on. You should really contact all these shooter since you act like you hang out with them all the time and know all the little tricks and tell them how much time and money they are wasting. But please do explain to them and to me if there is no such thing as custom built rifle in the ,0001 and most production rifle compaines are pleased with .0005 then please do tell me why productions rifles right out of the box are not competing at world class long distance shooting? Because as you say .0001 is nothing but a laugh to you and blueprinting your action is a waste of time. But please do contact mike at Click here: McIntyre Precision Rifles, Inc - Custom Rifles and Gunsmith Shop and explain to him that all his machine are not set up at ,0001 and how he is lying to everyone. I am sure he would enjoy a good laugh. But I will warn you first have about 30 mins free when you call him because he loves to talk about shooting and rifle building. But go ahead and drop them a note al and maybe you can learn something about how to build a rifle and why blue printing is inmportant in building a top of the line rifle since you said blue printing is a waste of money and time and does nothing. When you get done with Mike and he has a good laugh let me know and I will see who else needs a good laugh this week.
I did not see where smallgamehunter said a factory action was winning world shooting events. All I read was he said blueprinting your action helps with accuracy which it does. However, Big Al I did see where you stated a blueprinted action was a waste of time and money and did nothing for accuracy. That could not be more wrong. A blueprinted action does a lot for accuracy. Blueprinting your action is kind of like getting your front-end aligned on your car. Sure your car will run when it is out of alignment but it is not riding or performing at it's peak level. As to the tolerance levels between a factory rifle and a custom rifle there is no comparison a custom rifle "not one built in someones basement" will beat a factory rifle any day of the week that is pretty much common sense.
Please provide where I said it does nothing for accuracy????????Big Al I did see where you stated a blueprinted action was a waste of time and money and did nothing for accuracy
My point is this, for the money you will spend to have a top gunsmith blue print your action, you will never get your money out of that action. How do you convince someone to spend the extra money for an action you say has been blue printed?
My point in pointing out that no competitive shooters are doing this, is simple, if it was as good as a custom action and was cheaper, don't you think these tight wad competitive shooters would be doing just that?
As I said before, there is a heck of a down side to a re cut factory action, once the ring threads are re-cut, you have to be real careful and remember not to wipe out the barrel tread or the ring threads. Many people doing long range shooting are doing a lot of barrel changes, you have a so called blueprinted action and go to swap barrels and forget just one time and it's presto, instance paper weight.
I don't mind you having a difference of opinion, but I do mind being misquoted!