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Thread: Ruger #1 Stainless .405 Winchester

  1. #1
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default Ruger #1 Stainless .405 Winchester

    Was out browsing the local gun shops, came across a brand new stainless/laminate stock Number 1, Tropical style rifle, chambered to .405 Winchester.
    I've not had a lot to do with Number 1's, but this one is intriguing, mostly because of the round. Told me I could take it out the door for $795.
    They've a good supply of the 300 gr. Hornady ammunition there, also, that gives an advertised 2225 fps, that seems to be pretty stout.
    Any thoughts on this package? I may have to pick the thing up because it's such an oddball, but it sure seems like a heckuva moose thumper...

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    Member whateveri8's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I say to thee, Yeah to a .405WCF

    Teddy Roosevelt was a fan of the .405WCF. The round made a comeback as Winchester started producing the 1895 Winchester in .405WCF again. The cartridge came out of the obsolete pile and is back on the self again. I've seen Ruger #1's listed all calibers a few dollars cheaper, but by the time you add transfer, shipping and handling, $795.00 out the door is a fair deal. Being a big bore caliber, it will retain its value and for hunting, it will do very nice for Moose, Elk, Black Bear, and worst of them all: Felis silvestris catus.

    Despite a bit of a rainbow trajectory as most 40 thru 45 caliber cartridges have, It's an excellent bush rifle and reloading supplies are plentiful if you go that route, or 405 Win cartridges can be found at most good gun shops and hunting stores. A Ruger #1 is fun to shoot. In my opinion, because it is a single shot rifle, one tends to focus more on the target; hence improving your overall shooting abilities. It's a mental thing as you do not have another round at the ready to squeeze off. Despite some people can handle single shot rifles and shotguns so efficiently that a round can be re-chambered in the time it takes another to cycle a bolt and fire. I'm not one of these people, but I am sure there are men who can back me up on the ability to reload a single shot firearm very efficiently.

    So as an investment, you will not loose money on the rifle in the .405WCF caliber
    As a hunting rifle: All North American Medium and Large game can be hunted with it.
    As far as recoil, itís not going to jar your teeth loose as do the 400 thru 416 heavy magnum calibers.

    Itís a great addition to any collection as it fills the gap between .375 and .458 sized bullet launcher.
    God, Guns and Guts is what made America Great

  3. #3
    New member reuben_j_cogburn's Avatar
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    Smile Theodores Big medicine

    (He hated being called Teddy!!)..................
    I bought one of those new Winchesters in .405 !! I'm looking forward to reloading for it as soon as I can get enough empty cases together (err-hemm!!).......................
    I'd like to share experiences on reloading for this caliber. If "T" used it on hippo and Rhino it must work in Alaska!
    That sounds like a fair price for the #1. I've always thought that was a beautiful rifle. I'd like to have one but I gotta thin the herd of the redundant calibers first.....
    Have fun with the #1.... I'm jealous.....!!!!

    reuben...

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    Default T.R.'s 405

    D/W,

    I have lots of data on the 405, it was my most recent project. I too, have a No. 1, it's blue/walnut and rented a Miroku/Browning/Winchester 1895. Buy some RL-7 powder, Hornady brass and 300 grain round nose bullets.

    I shot some of the Hornady ammo and it's good but in the No.1 you can easily better the ballistics. With the weight of the barrel, recoil is mild and lots of fun to shoot.

    I can post some load data when I get home.

    Good shootin'.

    Murphy

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    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default Thanks!

    I'm putting money on it to hold it till I can thin a few things out of my own. Then gotta find dies, brass, bullets.....Thanks a Bunch for the replies!
    Darreld

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    Member IceKing02's Avatar
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    Default Looking for your .405WCF data..

    Hope that you got your .405 last year and have a bucket o' brass by this time. I've got the last takedown Winchester in the same caliber on layaway at Mecca (Sportsman's).

    I was looking to get some reloading data for this cartridge that uses the Kodiak bullets (I heard that they make both a 300gr and 330gr) or the Barnes 300 x-bullet. Don't forget that my recipes are for use in the 1895 and that I don't have the same pressure tolerance as you folks in the #1 Rugers...

    Any advice in this area is appreciated. I'm no veteran of loading and have only reloaded for the little cals (.257Wby and .300Win). These rounds look like a darn sharpie marker is getting loaded down the pipe...I guess that's why I just had to get one.

    Yours,

    IceKing02

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    Default double rifle

    Now, if we could just find a way to weld 2 of them together for a poor mans double rifle

    jedi

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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Default

    Not to downplay the .405 Win, but can anybody tell me why the .405 is better than the .444 Marlin? On paper they look very close and now that NEF is making a .444 Handi Rifle I'm sure we can better factory loads.

  9. #9

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    I've got a couple of 444's, an assortment of 45 calibers, and a wildcat 44 that considerably bumps 444 performance. And yup, I'm looking hard at the 405 in a #1. The biggest reason is the SD of those heavy bullets. I'd like a little more case capacity to do something with it, but velocities you can generate with safe reloads in the #1 still appeal.

    A friend has had a blued #1 in 405 since the chambering first came available. Like other #1's in heavy calibers, it is a sincere tack driver. He's experimented with heavy load and found great success, but is even happier with moderate load performance. He's worked up a range of loads with several cast bullets, and reports it's absolutely the best caliber/gun combo he's worked with. That's what got my attention!

    And yes, it would be dandy to have this in an affordable double. Heck, I'd take any caliber in an affordable right now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Not to downplay the .405 Win, but can anybody tell me why the .405 is better than the .444 Marlin? On paper they look very close and now that NEF is making a .444 Handi Rifle I'm sure we can better factory loads.
    The 444 is an extended 44 Mag. The case is not as strong and it wasn't meant for pressures above 40,000 psi. The original loading for it was the 265 grain, short with lower SD, and all bullets made for it are really 44 mag bullets. The 405 was designed for the 300 grainers which have higher SD and are thicker jacketed to with stand rife velocities. The limit for the Hornady and the 300 Kodiak would be about 2250 fps for good performance on game. The 444 can't muster those ballistics, nor will it's bullets handle that energy level. Just as the 405 cannot equal the 416 ballistics even though they are close in diameter, the 416 will handle 400 grain bullets with very high Sectional Density and ..well it's performance is legendary.

    The 444 with a strong 300 grain bullet at about 2000 fps would be much better performer. Can we get that performance from a 444?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    The 405's original Winchester 1895 ballistics, I believe, were 300 grains at 2150 fps. This load will rival the souped up 400 grain 45-70 load of today. At the 405 velocities there are several very good bullets to better the Lion medicine loads that TR used. I would not hesitate to take a lion with this caliber today and would also consider it a bear caliber.

    I have traded off my 405 ruger No. 1, but loaded for it a lot and managed to take on loan two different 1895's one old one new, and loaded for them as well. The Winchester m71 should have been chambered in one of these. Speaking of which I once had a borrowed m71 recut into a 348-410, I liked that one. I developed the ammo for it and then sold my dies to the owner of the rifle, an interesting elk getter.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  12. #12

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    That was the reasoning behind my 44 wildcat, Murph, based on a necked down 45-70 in a Marlin. I was dissatisfied with my 444's and heavy bullets, but the wildcat easily punches a heavy-jacket Hawk 300 grainer over 2200 fps without scary pressures.

    Even with that one in hand, the 405 is starting to appeal. As an old wildcatter though, I'm going to compare case capacity of the 405 Winnie with that of my necked down 44 before settling on a 405. It would be kinda interesting if the wildcat allowed a meaningful increase in case capacity. Idle speculation, but we all need excuses for a new rifle!

  13. #13
    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    The 444 is an extended 44 Mag. The case is not as strong and it wasn't meant for pressures above 40,000 psi.
    Is it the case that won't handle pressures above 40,000psi, or the Marlin .444 rifle? That's why I'm thinking that the NEF single shot might be a good test bed for "hot" .444 loads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    The 444 with a strong 300 grain bullet at about 2000 fps would be much better performer. Can we get that performance from a 444?
    265 HRN, 48.1gr N120, 2320fps VV manual
    300 HRN XTP, 46.7gr N130, 2000fps Horn manual
    300 HRN XTP, 51.3gr H335, 2000fps Horn manual


    I know that the .405 is longer than the .444 (2.58in vs 2.225in) and has greater capacity (76.89 gr water vs 69.54 gr water), but doesn't the .444's larger size help at all?

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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    As an old wildcatter though, I'm going to compare case capacity of the 405 Winnie with that of my necked down 44 before settling on a 405. It would be kinda interesting if the wildcat allowed a meaningful increase in case capacity. Idle speculation, but we all need excuses for a new rifle!
    According to my reference, the .45-70 holds 75.51 gr water while the .405 holds 76.89 gr water. Very, very close while the .405 is .48 in longer.

    All my spectulation is on paper for now. I do have a Marlin .444, but haven't really loaded for it yet. I have no expirence with the .405. I'm interested in your .44/.45-70 though.

  15. #15

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    You're right about the original 45-70 case, but I blew virtually 100% of the taper out of mine while bottlenecking it. Haven't ever got around to measuring the new water capacity, but it's a sizeable jump. All that tells me I should be able to bump 405 Winnie performance with a case that's short enough to function through the Marlin 95 action. See what I mean about excuses for new rifles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Is it the case that won't handle pressures above 40,000psi, or the Marlin .444 rifle? That's why I'm thinking that the NEF single shot might be a good test bed for "hot" .444 loads.



    265 HRN, 48.1gr N120, 2320fps VV manual
    300 HRN XTP, 46.7gr N130, 2000fps Horn manual
    300 HRN XTP, 51.3gr H335, 2000fps Horn manual


    I know that the .405 is longer than the .444 (2.58in vs 2.225in) and has greater capacity (76.89 gr water vs 69.54 gr water), but doesn't the .444's larger size help at all?
    Well, you know, I said that but the brass for a 44 Mag or 444 has the same webb design and is as strong as anything we would want to feed in the Marlin. I think the 405 is a stronger webb design and I have run the Ruger to 2400 fps with the 300 grain Hornady and I'm sure the 444 could be upped a bit too in a stronger action.

    The hinged frame NEF isn't as strong as a No. 1, likely on a par with the Marlin. When you get it too hot the action won't open, it stays together but just locks up and they are a pain to get open. The Marlin is easier to open than the NEF hinged frame. If you go up slowly at 1/2 grain steps you should have warning enough. Use new brass for the heavy loads. Looks like it would work for some improvement the only down side then would be the bullet construction and sectional density.

    A smithie friend of mine is making a 405 into a 416 by straightening it out with minimum taper. I don't know how that is going yet but I'll probably do the load development. It is on a Ruger No.1 action. That is only five thousandths larger in diameter but it was just for the bullet availability. 416 bullets are heavier and a little tougher.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Thumbs up The NEF rifle..

    338-06,

    Before I completely get out in left field, let me back out of the NEF rifle as a test bed. I'm not that familiar with it and don't know what calibers are available for that one. If they chamber a 308 Winchester in the rifle then it is indeed strong enough to bump the 444 and 300 grains up to about 2200 fps. Working up with caution of course. If it is just chambered for the small case high pressure rounds such as the 223, then the bolt thrust of the 444 head size will be a problem. Bolt thrust is the culprit in hinged frames. This defined as the psi times the case head area. The 223 and 243 have same pressure but 243 much greater bolt thrust. The 243 vs 308 same pressure, same head, same bolt thrust. I need to get out more and see more rifles.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Murphy, thank you for your responses!
    As for the NEF, or H&R as they're now known, I have several. Mostly because they are inexpensive (cheap!). They won't ANY beauty contest, but you can get different caliber barrels-even shotgun-for your receiver for around $100. 500 S&W, 450 Marlin, 45-70, 444, 30-06, 308, 270...down to 22 Hornet. Actualy, I should have said 204 Ruger. They also have a rimfire model. Oh, you can get a muzzle loader barrel too.

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    Default Ruger #1 Stainless Tropical 405 Win

    Just got one an hour ago! looking for loading data and people to shoot with. Fairly new to the area and love to shoot.

  20. #20

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    I have a freind who loads 350 grain Hornadys on top of 63 grains of H335 at a tad over 47k CUP....45-70/NEF....no problems other than it kicks. I wouldn't dream of shooting that load in my 1895.

    I gotta admitt that I kind of like those H&R/NEF boomers. Yet they are a turd along side the # 1 yet will shoot right with them.

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