Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Cata-Canoe?

  1. #1
    Member tboehm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Soldotna AK
    Posts
    2,408

    Default Cata-Canoe?

    I was talking to Mike about this issue. How it might address some of the problems of deciding what to buy and the pros and cons of the different types of rafts vs the situations that you can face as well as the line of thought that one boat can do it all, one rifle can't do it all ect. I saw one picture of someone that had made one but was wondering if anyone here had some close up pictures and some detailed input on how they did it, why, and how it works for them. I love this forum!!

  2. #2
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Rifle River MI
    Posts
    1,835

    Default Alaska Raft and Kayak

    Simple go out to AR&K home page look at their photo's Simple to accomplish and works for some people.

    Good Luck.

  3. #3

    Default Raft

    Are you talking about these?



    http://www.alaskaraftandkayak.com/ga...ng&img=294&r=6

    http://www.alaskaraftandkayak.com/ga...6_10_15_49.jpg

    I was thinking about this. I already have a Cat, but two travellers would be nice. I am not sure how much weight they could do. I have no experience with them. That being said, it seems like they would be a pretty slick set up, since you could have two boats, or one depending on your trip.

  4. #4
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    5,767

    Default Cata-canoe info.

    Hi folks,

    The cata-canoe concept has been around for quite a while. My former hunting partner, Paul Jobe, used to own a company in Anchorage called "Wild Alaska Rivers Company". At that time he was the AIRE and Northwest River Supplies dealer for the state of Alaska, a privilege now owned by Alaska Raft and Kayak. At any rate, we began to discuss the idea of connecting two canoes together into a cataraft about fifteen years ago, and I'm sure others were doing it before we thought of it. Not knowing what to call it, we invented the name "cata-canoe". The first photos I ever saw of such a rig were from a trip taken by another friend of mine named Kim Tatman. His pics are some of the ones posted on Alaska Raft and Kayak's website.

    Here's an overview of some of the pluses and minuses:

    POSITIVES

    1. Versatility. This is probably the strongest advantage of the cata-canoe. Essentially it is three boats in one. You can use either canoe separately, and rig it as a cataraft. You could even install a transom on it and run it as a power cat.

    2. Any canoe will work. Ideally, the canoes will be the same model and make, otherwise you could have performance issues. But this could be done with a pair of Incepts, Travelers, or even the PP.

    3. Huge load capacity. With the proper frame, you have storage "below decks", plus storage on top. Cataraft users know that these rigs have tons of space, but that catarafts are easily overloaded if you try to use it all. The advantage of the cata-canoe is that you have a lot of boat in the water, which translates to exponentially greater capacity over a conventional cat.

    4. Low center of gravity. Because you have the interior space inside each canoe, you can load your heavy items low in the boat. This increases stability and reduces your chances of overturning if the boat is broached against a rock or a rootwad in fast water.

    5. Reduced wind resistance. Many of our rivers in Alaska sport strong upstream winds. This is a huge disadvantage to rafters in boats with high bow rises. In a conventional round boat, you have a lot of wind resistance up front and in some cases the wind can actually push you upstream. The front of the boat essentially acts as a sail. Catarafts fare much better in this regard, because the bow is pointed (not flat or gradually rounded like it is with round boats). The wind just slips right through. The cata-canoe takes the cataraft advantage to a new level because most inflatable canoes sit lower in the water than most catarafts (because of reduced tube diameter). Therefore, the cata-canoe is a much better performer in a wind situation than even a conventional cataraft.

    NEGATIVES

    1. Increased cost. The cata-canoe will cost more than a conventional cataraft. Just how much more depends on the cataraft, and the canoes chosen. For comparison, the AIRE Leopard tubes retail for $2199, and a pair of Traveler canoes will retail for $2698, an increase of almost $500.

    2. Limited frame options. There is, to my knowledge, only one commercially-available frame designed specifically for the cata-canoe. It is built by Alaska Raft and Kayak and retails for a spendy $949. Of course you could build your own, but it will probably be a lot of hassle unless you have the tools and expertise.

    Well, that's a quick overview of the situation. Personally I believe the cata-canoe is a rig that should be looked at by any serious float hunter. It has most or all of the features you need for an extended Alaska hunting expedition.

    Hope it helps!

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,449

    Default

    I'd never heard the term before, but having found myself with several inflatable kayaks, I couldn't help myself. I tried it with two Aire Lynx 1 IKs and it worked so good I started using it all the time.

    On one trip down the Fortymile I also brought along a Thrillseeker IK for a play boat for some kids. It is completely different in shape & length, and a better boat for whitewater. Alas, it is not comfortable for the long haul, so after a day of sore butt I loaned one Lynx to the rider and used the Thrillseeker for that side of the cata-canoe. I ended up with one 10' and one 13' IK tied together with the plywood frame. I used straps to tie the bow & stern together. It still worked fine -- surprised me.

    Mine is, of course, very short (10') and low (12"), but it will pack quite a bit of gear and still not draft much water. I have less than $100 into the frame. Each oar cost more. It handles superb, can spin on a dime, is very stable and moves quick. It'll also surf pretty well. The thing I like best is the low entry exit hight. You can step on & off without climbing over anything. What I don't like is that, being so low, it is a very wet boat in any kind of rapids. A dry suit or rain suit is required.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,449

    Default

    Here's the irregular version.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Talkeetna
    Posts
    5,714

    Default

    That's hillbilly as hell...and I love it

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    For comparison, the AIRE Leopard tubes retail for $2199, and a pair of Traveler canoes will retail for $2698, an increase of almost $500.
    Where do you get a pair for $2700 or is that just a typo?

    Traveler retail for $1800 each or $3600

    The main difference I see would be in the boat price and frame price. I think you can get a frame for the traveler less than a Cat frame. But the price for the travellers and frame would still be more.

    Does a traveler frame have the bottom railings like a cat frame?
    http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...0&deptid=1053#

    Or is it more like a raft frame?
    http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...02&deptid=1052

  9. #9
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    5,767

    Default Correctomundo!

    Quote Originally Posted by akrafter View Post
    Where do you get a pair for $2700 or is that just a typo?

    Traveler retail for $1800 each or $3600

    The main difference I see would be in the boat price and frame price. I think you can get a frame for the traveler less than a Cat frame. But the price for the travellers and frame would still be more.

    Does a traveler frame have the bottom railings like a cat frame?
    http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...0&deptid=1053#

    Or is it more like a raft frame?
    http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...02&deptid=1052
    My mistake. It was an early morning and my math circuits were not firing correctly. Thanks for pointing it out.

    As to the style issue, the frame is similar to the ones used on the old AIRE Cougar and Panther double-tube cats. Most anything will work though, as long as it holds the canoes parallel to each other and prevents the boats from pivoting longitudinally. In other words, you have to tie each side off on a different bar.

    Hope that makes sense.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  10. #10
    Member tboehm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Soldotna AK
    Posts
    2,408

    Default very interesting

    I appreciate all of the input from everyone. I think that I really like the idea of this and it warrents more research. I wondering if I could come up with a way to have 2 independent frames and then the ability to connect them into one. It may take some engineering ability to work things out but it might be worth looking at. I might need to find a friend at the Midas shop.Even with the raised cost in the begining, your getting 3 boats in one like Mike mentioned at the same time having 1 boat that will do most. Man I can't wait to move!!!! Any more thoughts on the matter would be more than welcome.

  11. #11

    Default

    I'm not sure what your thinking for a frame... I think it could be done without any bending... Not sure if you need just a top platform like a round boat. I don't know what the AIRE cougar frame looked like.

    I would definitely build the frame yourself if you're into that. It does take time, but is fun! I paid $26 for a 10 foot piece of AL pipe. Fittings are what cost the most. You can go the NRS low pro route or Holleander fittings.


    I think you could make a frame that could be for both, but since the traveller is so small width wise, what is a single rowing frame like?
    Here is a good page for ideas:
    http://www.alaskaraftandkayak.com/raftassembly.php


    If you want one frame to work for both, the crossmembers could break apart like this:
    http://www.alaskaraftandkayak.com/catassembly/img02.jpg
    http://www.alaskaraftandkayak.com/catassembly/img16.jpg


    Whatever you do, be sure to share your progress, as it is something I am interested in doing too!

  12. #12

    Default cata-canoe

    I have the Aire traveler set up with a custom built frame that I made. Frame cost $750 appx. Advantages= light weight to portage heaviest piece is traveler 65lbs appx. Versitle can use individually or together. Dissadvantage you sit right on top of the tubes so your legs have to go almost straight out. Over several day that gets a little tiresome.

  13. #13
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    931

    Lightbulb Cattin' boats

    Guessing about 15 years ago (yikes), I was trying phases of this cata-canoe and cata-yak design... 2 Vagabond hardshells, Metzeler canoes & kayaks, then AIRE lynx 1 & 2, two tubes w/ canoe in the middle, etc.

    If you are more often likely to be using a single inflatable kayak or canoe as primary... then have a certain secondary application for Cattin' them up, it's a fine bit of reasoning.

    However, I'll tell you that when comparing a CatRaft w/ a CatCanoe in rafting scenarios... you will find that the Cat Rafts outshine the modified canoes on just about all raft applications.

    If you'll be mostly rafting --- get yourself into the self-bailer or CatRaft kinds of watercraft.

    If you consider that you will be mostly Kayaking or Canoeing throughout the boating season (maybe owning a couple/pair) with the occasional rafting trip then by all means try the CatCanoe or CatYak.

    I have several Aire Travs in my rental pool @ Alaska Raft & Kayak. Great if you wish to try out the Cattin' concept, maybe already own one and think you may try two, experiment, and so on.

    I will follow-up on two comments - AIRE CatCanoes and Yaks draft very little water yet make for a wet ride. By the same token on lack of clearance with greater surface tension/footprint, it can not straddle or bridge over mid-river obstacles and has a greater tendency to get stuffed in holes, climb hazards etc.

    Brian Richardson

  14. #14
    Member tboehm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Soldotna AK
    Posts
    2,408

    Default Brian

    I appreciate the info. I don't own anything yet. We are planning on the move in the summer. I'm going nuts looking at all of the options and senerios that I could face. You pointed out one new aspect that I had not thought of, bridging mid river objects with the cat-canoe. I will look you up when we get there if thats alright with you and try out some different options. Thanks for the help.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •