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Thread: Where to swap hunts on the AK Forum?

  1. #1

    Default Where to swap hunts on the AK Forum?

    Apologies if this is the wrong thread, but I'm looking for a forum to swap hunts. I looked at the Swap n' Sell Forum, but it was all merchandise. I live in Alabama and have great whitetail and turkey hunting with lodging, and guided bass fishing on the Bass Masters Classic Lake Guntersville.
    Please advise.

    Thanks!!

  2. #2
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default Didnt think

    swapping was legal, is'nt that the same as bartering?

  3. #3

    Default akhunter

    I wan't get into tax laws,(See IRS tax topic 420) bur why would you think that swapping/bartering would be illegal?

  4. #4
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    Default

    Because in Alaska if you receive any type of compensation from a hunter to help him hunt, you have to have a guide license. You have to be very careful.

  5. #5
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default it is an alaska thing

    if you offer any hunt or services for compensation of any kind you are going to run afoul of the guide or transporter regulations...
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
    http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/

  6. #6
    Member AkGreg's Avatar
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    Default great question

    I have thought about this very thing for a while....Where is the "line" if I have a frined in Alabama where I go down and hunt on his land and he comes up and joins me for a caribou hunt is that legal?

    If no money changes hands and there is no expectation for any kind of services other than two guys going hunting?

    I understand the fine line of the scenario but I think it is worth getting more specific info..... I personally do not want to cross any legal lines....

    thanks

    Greg

  7. #7
    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    Default

    I'll trade you a wet mountainside with no deer, for a field full of turkey and wild boar.

  8. #8
    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
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    Default greg

    Seems the line is crossed way too easy. The answer I got a few years ago was similar to this: If your "friend" pays for over 50% of the gas, plane, raft, taxidermy, food,.....you get the idea, then you are being compensated. Now you are flirting with the whole recieving compensation (read: guiding) for a hunt. Don't shoot the messenger. Check with the brown shirts yourself and see if you can get a different answer and get a name with it if you do.

  9. #9
    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    Default Big brother

    This is the kind of thing that I think that we mess up ourselves. Your about as likely to get the same answer asking 2 brown shirts a question as asking 2 physiatrist for a diagnoisis and getting the same answer. If 2 friends want to share hunts and there is no money involved then you should be able to do it and I **** sure wouldn't ask for permission!! Proper hunting ethics is what we need to be concerned with. I can see where some guide services might not agree or like like it but there is more than one way to skin a cat. I say swap away!!

  10. #10
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default being friends may make the difference

    but soliciting strangers to "trade hunts" is never gonna fly.
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
    http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/

  11. #11

    Default B.S.

    This is just another aspect of what pisses me off about the way things are. Two grown men can't exchange hunting experiences without having a lawyer aboard to sort out this and that. Jesus Christ, if you want to go hunt somewhere and have someone come up and hunt with you then just do it. This is pathetic and petty. This is what it's come to, grown, responsible men can't make reasonable decisions without all the b.s.

    Enough is enough.
    Marc Theiler

  12. #12
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    Default

    A wiser man than me once told me "You can't apply a value to the hunt"

    I have a buddy in NY I plan on hunting with this fall. I'm hoping like hell he'll come up here next spring to go black bear hunting with me. Are we swapping hunts? Nope... I'm trying to get his ass back up here and in the mean time really, really, really want to shoot something other than a blacktail deer.... Will I give him gas money... of course.

    I think there's a big difference between hunting with a buddy and "swapping hunts" with a complete stranger.... IMO

  13. #13

    Default Exactly

    That's exactly right. How hard is it to make a reasonable, ethical decision on ones own without any micromanagement?
    Marc Theiler

  14. #14
    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    Default

    Can I swap an unguided blacktail hunt for an unguided moose hunt?

    Can I swap Juneau for Tok?

    My brother lives in Tok... can we trade?

    I say $$ is irrelevent. If someone wants to trade their hunt for yours, you are well within your rights.

    With regard to "value" beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

  15. #15

    Default I thought it was...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoggyMountain View Post
    Can I swap an unguided blacktail hunt for an unguided moose hunt?

    With regard to "value" beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    I always thought it was in the eye of the "Beerholder"

  16. #16
    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    I always thought it was in the eye of the "Beerholder"
    Were that so, I'd think you all purdy.

  17. #17
    Member moose-head's Avatar
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    Question

    I know of at least one national magazine that has a section for swapping hunts among 'members' I would assume that they have considered the legality of this in the last ?? years that they have had that section. I never considered it being a problem.

  18. #18
    Moderator kingfisherktn's Avatar
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    Talking Soggy:

    This is Gittin' a little too huggy for me. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by SoggyMountain View Post
    Were that so, I'd think you all purdy.

  19. #19

    Default

    “(8) "guide" means to provide, for compensation or with the intent or with an agreement to receive compensation, services, equipment, or facilities to a big game hunter in the field by a person who accompanies or is present with the big game hunter in the field either personally or through an assistant; in this paragraph, "services" includes
    (A) contracting to guide or outfit big game hunts;
    (B) stalking, pursuing, tracking, killing, or attempting to kill big game;
    (C) packing, preparing, salvaging, or caring for meat, except that which is required to properly and safely load the meat on the mode of transportation being used by a transporter;
    (D) field preparation of trophies, including skinning and caping;
    (E) selling, leasing, or renting goods when the transaction occurs in the field;
    (F) using guiding or outfitting equipment, including spotting scopes and firearms, for the benefit of a hunter; and
    (G) providing camping or hunting equipment or supplies that are already located in the field;”

    What does compensation mean?:

    “(4) "compensation" means payment for services including wages or other remuneration but not including reimbursement for actual expenses incurred;”

    My dictionary defines remuneration as:

    Payment; reimbursement. Reward; recompense; salary; compensation

    In 2005, this issue was, kinda, addressed in court:


    “Peltola argues that the State presented insufficient evidence for a reasonable jury to find that he guided Pendergraff "for compensation."

    Pendergraff testified that in May 2000, at Trooper Dodson's request, he contacted Peltola at his bar in Michigan to investigate whether Peltola was offering illegal guiding services in Alaska. During that contact, Peltola agreed to arrange a moose hunt for Pendergraff for $1500. Peltola described the services he would provide for that price, including meals, lodging, air travel from Bethel to the camp and back, locating a moose, and driving the moose toward Pendergraff. Pendergraff testified that it was not his understanding after this contact that this price was his share of the actual costs of the hunt.
    The jury also listened to an audio tape of a telephone conversation between Trooper Dodson and Peltola. In that conversation, Peltola said he believed he
    was entitled to charge hunters at his camp twenty percent above his actual costs.
    At trial, James Berlin, a friend of Peltola's, testified that he paid Peltola $800 to $900 to cover his expenses for a seven-day hunt in 2000 (Pendergraff was charged $1500 for a two-day hunt in that same year). Peltola's witness, Kenny Watson, testified that he worked at the camp and that Peltola would give him spending money "if [Peltola] made any money."
    There was also testimony that approximately thirty-three gallons of fuel were used to fly Pendergraff from Bethel to the camp and back. There was testimony that gas was used when hunting on Peltola's boat, and that a gallon of gas cost $2.58 in Bethel. Pendergraff described the food provided (pancakes, fish, and sandwiches). Based on this testimony, the State estimated that Peltola's actual expenses for guiding Pendergraff were no more than $500.
    Viewing this evidence in the light most favorable to the State, a reasonable jury could find that Peltola received compensation for his guiding services, or, at least, that Peltola booked the hunt with the intent of receiving compensation. We therefore reject Peltola's claim that there was insufficient evidence to support his conviction for guiding without a license.”


    I think a couple guys getting together to hunt in each other's places is ok. How the guys get together is a slippery slope, so posting a swapp should be fine. My two cents.

  20. #20
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default depends

    If someone from the lower 48 is wanting to swap a hunt on public lands thats one thing. But if that same person wants me to take them on a moose hunt and then take me on a deer hunt on private lands that they normally charge others to hunt on thats different.

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