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Thread: Silvers from Knik Arm Management Area?

  1. #1

    Default Silvers from Knik Arm Management Area?

    Does anyone know what the silvers will be looking like in the Knik Arm Management Area - since they apparently have been held up for a while in the lower river?

    Copied verbatim from: http://www.alaskaoutdoorjournal.com/...lerreport.html



    ANGLERS ARE NOW ALLOWED TO HARVEST COHO (SILVER) SALMON IN WATERS OF THE KNIK ARM MANAGEMENT AREA
    • Beginning Tuesday, September 11, at 12:01 a.m., anglers may again possess coho salmon in the Knik Arm drainages, which is described as the Knik Arm area on pages 33-35 of the 2007 Southcentral Alaska sport fishing regulation booklet. Popular coho salmon systems in the Knik Arm area include the Little Susitna River, Jim Creek, Wasilla Creek / Rabbit Slough, and Cottonwood Creek.
    • Water levels have risen significantly on the Little Susitna River, which is a Northern Cook Inlet "index" stream for coho. The high waters have encouraged a large number of coho salmon that were holding in the lower river to migrate upstream through the department weir. The Little Susitna River weir count is now 13,801 coho, which surpasses the lower end of the escapement goal range of 10,100 ? 17,700 coho salmon. Based on these numbers it is no longer necessary to restrict the coho salmon sport fishery in the Knik Arm area waters.
    • The daily limits for salmon (other than king salmon) 16 inches or longer are 3 per day and 3 in possession, only 2 per day and 2 in possession may be coho salmon, except at the Eklutna Power Plant tailrace, where all 3 salmon may be coho salmon.
    • For more information, contact the ADF&G Palmer area office at (907) 746-6300.

  2. #2
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Default

    I'd say red to black
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  3. #3

    Default Commercial Guys

    Ask them they got the extended openers! All NCI fish swim up the west side-
    BS!
    Louie

  4. #4
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskalouie View Post
    Ask them they got the extended openers! All NCI fish swim up the west side-
    BS!
    Louie
    How is that BS, Louie, if the river has met its escapement goal? There are enough fish in the river, sportfishing is being re-opened, so....what's the problem?

  5. #5

    Default What?

    Show me the reds for the YETNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Its to little to late! The reds have been slaughtered and they are sure any that were left have passed would not get caught and tell me this the weirs have been pulled! How do you count fish ????? you don"t You satisfy joe blow sportman with a late season RE-opener and come next year it's the minority status Quo on the fish again. THIS IS MY LAST POST TO THIS RAG WEBSITE FOR I LIKE YOU WILL DO NADA TO CHANGE ANYTHING AND ALL WE DO IS TALK----IM TIRED

    WEBMASTER LOCK ME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #6
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    louie, I was referring to silvers, not reds. These late season openers do not affect the red run.

  7. #7

    Default Yikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskalouie View Post
    Show me the reds for the YETNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Its to little to late! The reds have been slaughtered and they are sure any that were left have passed would not get caught and tell me this the weirs have been pulled! How do you count fish ????? you don"t You satisfy joe blow sportman with a late season RE-opener and come next year it's the minority status Quo on the fish again. THIS IS MY LAST POST TO THIS RAG WEBSITE FOR I LIKE YOU WILL DO NADA TO CHANGE ANYTHING AND ALL WE DO IS TALK----IM TIRED

    WEBMASTER LOCK ME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yikes. Isn't the idea behind a forum to "talk"? I guess I wont get a response since you are done posting.

    Forum as defined by wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn:
    'a public meeting or assembly for open discussion'

  8. #8

    Default "silvers" in the post title

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskalouie View Post
    Show me the reds for the YETNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Its to little to late! The reds have been slaughtered and they are sure any that were left have passed would not get caught and tell me this the weirs have been pulled! How do you count fish ????? you don"t You satisfy joe blow sportman with a late season RE-opener and come next year it's the minority status Quo on the fish again. THIS IS MY LAST POST TO THIS RAG WEBSITE FOR I LIKE YOU WILL DO NADA TO CHANGE ANYTHING AND ALL WE DO IS TALK----IM TIRED

    WEBMASTER LOCK ME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The entire idea behind my post is regarding silvers. Brian M was referring to silvers. My post is titled: 'Silvers from Knik Arm Management Area'.
    Last edited by Brian M; 09-14-2007 at 15:44.

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    Default lock him out

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskalouie View Post
    Show me the reds for the YETNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Its to little to late! The reds have been slaughtered and they are sure any that were left have passed would not get caught and tell me this the weirs have been pulled! How do you count fish ????? you don"t You satisfy joe blow sportman with a late season RE-opener and come next year it's the minority status Quo on the fish again. THIS IS MY LAST POST TO THIS RAG WEBSITE FOR I LIKE YOU WILL DO NADA TO CHANGE ANYTHING AND ALL WE DO IS TALK----IM TIRED

    WEBMASTER LOCK ME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I would do as he requested. The information provided above is wrong for a variety of reasons. f he wants out then so be it. We should respect his wishes.

  10. #10

    Default Appology

    To Beng --- Sorry the fish have turned in the NCI drainages, heard 20 mile still has some cromers! Saw some new fish on the Deshka, LW and Anderson but very few.

    Now on to the rest of it, I'm lucky enough to be on the river 90 + days a year and see first hand what the fish are doing! When there are no fish look to the NCI and SCI and so goes the Valley. Openers are dead fish PERIOD! Wrong information? If you take from ADF&G everything bible I'm sorry for you
    !

    Weirs left unattended or not put in soon enough or pulled to early? It happens I've seen it! Commercial and un-regulated sport fishing takes it's tole. Floods like last year will hurt also.

    So here is the meat and potatos of it, when Beng asks how are the fish in the NCI drainage and the NCI and LCI continue's with normal opener's when historic weir counts show low totals for this year? Stop the UCI and LCI commerical take! How does a minority of fisherman always rate the majority of fish? I'M done, I wiill go to the board meetings and ask for more fish, what good it will do??

    Louie

  11. #11

    Default thanks Louie

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskalouie View Post
    To Beng --- Sorry the fish have turned in the NCI drainages, heard 20 mile still has some cromers! Saw some new fish on the Deshka, LW and Anderson but very few.
    Thanks Louie. I appreciate the info...

    I dont understand all acronyms: NCI, SCI and LCI. Can someone clue me in? I can gather what some mean, I suppose, but not positive. Or, is there somewhere to read more?

    Thanks Louie, really do appreciate it!

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskalouie View Post

    So here is the meat and potatos of it, when Beng asks how are the fish in the NCI drainage and the NCI and LCI continue's with normal opener's when historic weir counts show low totals for this year? Stop the UCI and LCI commerical take! How does a minority of fisherman always rate the majority of fish? I'M done, I wiill go to the board meetings and ask for more fish, what good it will do??
    I dont know the internal decision making very well, but think that a more conservative hand is necessary to maintain longterm sustainability.
    For instance, I know the kings on the Yukon were way over fished this year, even though the numbers have been low -- both commercial and subsistence. It is hard for authorities to take a conservative approach when there is a lot of pressure from commercial guys and communities dependent on the fish...

  12. #12
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default frustration...

    I empathize with louie's frustration, its tough sitting through the board meetings and rarely seeing any progress toward more sport fish friendly regulations for the upper cook inlet. (UCI) But to answer your question Beng: If you put in a lot of time on Jim Creek, Eklutna, Deshka, maybe even Sunshine and Rabideux, you may pull up a bright silver. Mainly all you'll find is very red fish with black backs... probly tough to even find a smoker. Here's my take on the story: All the re-opener does is allow anglers to fish for and retain old nearly spawned silvers. The Little Su water levels were very low, and the weir is located above the Parks Hwy, aproximately 70 miles from salt. This and the Fish Creek weir near Big Lake are the only weirs set up to predict run strength in the Knik Arm drainages. Very few fish had passed the Little Su weir, though fishermen were reporting lots of silvers in the river. The east side Mat valley streams all got shut down due to the weir count, then it rained. When it rained all the silvers holding in the river began to move again... thus a staggering weir count for a few days, which achieved F&G's escapement goal. So they re-opened lethal fishing. Big whoop! We can still fish the same way as during the closure: fishing for fun. Then we released cause we had to by law, now we're releasing the fish because they're all half dead. Yes, fish did pass the weir in Little Su, making it up into the no retention ever part of the river. No, new fish did not pour into the river, making a fishing bonanza. Net effect: the last of the season for sport catching edible fish was cut out.

    Though frustrating, sitting in at the Fish Board's meetings is useful: enough people show up to dispute Fish and Game's records, it will make a difference! Louie had a point- the Fish and Game can testify at the meeting that all escapements for silvers in the valley were met- they don't have to point out that it was due to a late season push of post spawning silvers, that the main part of the season was very tough for anglers.

  13. #13
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    Default Northern River Silvers

    I share all of your concerns and frustrations, particularly in regards to this seasons coho fishing. I look forward all year to fishing for Silvers, and felt pretty disheartened at the results. I will say that I actually got to use every possible piece of tackle I've accumulated over the years, so at least now I know how they work with the various rods and lines. I've heard many anecdotes blaming the commercial guys. I just don't have enough facts to believe if they're the cause or not. I wouldn't be surprised though....
    I spent as much time in August on the Little Sue as I could possibly spend, and I saw lots (literally) of fish in a number of locations above the landing, and darned if I could get many to bite. They were definitely in there, but whatever was the cause, I never so so many unaggressive chromers.

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    Default correction.

    Just for the record, the BOF has taken a number of actions to move fish north along with ADF&G. This year the drift fishery was restricted I believe at least 5 periods if not more, in additiion the Northern District set net fishery was closed. The drift fleet last fishing day was 10 August. The total coho catch was about 100,000 coho that are headed for hundreds of streams so the impact on a single stream is very small.

    The wier on the Little Su was put there for political reasons. The people of Houston wanted it at that location. Most biologist in ADF&G thought that was a terrible idea - too far upstream. However, ADF&G sport fish division which makes that call went for the political answer.

    Also, there use to be weirs on other systems in NCI run by sport fish division. They pulled those weirs - again against the objections of some in ADF&G but you will have to ask the leadership why they made other projects a higher priority than getting escapement data.

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    Default Management????


    Should this thread be moved to the management sub-forum? . . .


  16. #16
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskalouie View Post
    Now on to the rest of it, I'm lucky enough to be on the river 90 + days a year and see first hand what the fish are doing! When there are no fish look to the NCI and SCI and so goes the Valley. Openers are dead fish PERIOD! Wrong information? If you take from ADF&G everything bible I'm sorry for you
    -There used to be a commercial fishery for susitna based silvers, there hardly is one any more
    -As nerka said the catch was only 100,000 fish, assuming susitna river gets a quarter the fish in UCI thats 25,000 fish caught headed towards the susuitna now lets say there are about 10 major silver systems that get about half the susitna run thats only 1250 fish that are caught from each river with total runs of fish that probably number in the 20,000 range, so we'll say about 10% of the total run... 5% to the comm fleet seems fair to me especially when it also allows for good common sense managment of kenai sockeye.

    Weirs left unattended or not put in soon enough or pulled to early? It happens I've seen it! Commercial and un-regulated sport fishing takes it's tole. Floods like last year will hurt also.
    What weirs? The susitna river drainage counts come primarily from spawning surveys presumably from the air except the index stream which is the deshka. Besides do you have any idea how much it costs to run a weir (probably about $15000/ month) and the wy Mrs. Palin treats our fish and game its not a huge suprise that there isn't much a budget for those sorts of things

    So here is the meat and potatos of it, when Beng asks how are the fish in the NCI drainage and the NCI and LCI continue's with normal opener's when historic weir counts show low totals for this year? Stop the UCI and LCI commerical take! How does a minority of fisherman always rate the majority of fish? I'M done, I wiill go to the board meetings and ask for more fish, what good it will do??

    Gillnets are much more effective than rod and reel, it seems with 95% of the fish avalible for sport fishermen there wouldn't be a problem...
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  17. #17
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post

    Should this thread be moved to the management sub-forum? . . .

    It was started to ask questions about the potential fishing for late-season silvers. It would be more appropriate for a new thread to be started concerning the management of Cook Inlet silvers if that is what folks want to discuss, rather than continuing to make this thread about something beyond the intended topic.

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