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Thread: pro pioneer vs air traveler

  1. #1

    Default pro pioneer vs air traveler

    I was reading the www.aventuresports.com web page tests. They essentially say that a pro pioneer can haul 1000 lbs of gear compared to 500lbs in a aire traveler. I am wondering how this can be? I believe the traveler is about the same lenght at the water line, 4 inches narrower, and a much thicker floor with the same diameter tubes. Is this creative advertising or is the pioneer that much better?

  2. #2
    Member nibenza's Avatar
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    Default 1500 lbs

    According to the person that helped in the design the Pro Pioneer is rated at 1500#

    http://www.pristineventures.com/prod...tingBoats.html
    Life is tough........it's alot tougher if you're stupid.

  3. #3
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Rated vs Rated Yikes

    Not bashing anyone or any product but I believe the quesiton that should be answered is not how much a boat will carry hell I can put 1500 lbs in a traveler and it will float. The question I would ask is how much can each vessel handle while maintaining its munfactures weight rating for Class III water.

    Great quesiton.

    I have been in both,and like both for their intended purpose of design. I have some issues with the Pro P however I am an AIRE type of person beucase you get what you pay for. I have seen a 60inch class moose, one person, gear for ten days in the AIRE that being said I would have had to guess close to 900 lbs and there seem to be no issues.

    Mike, Larry, Jim etc... did some testing a while back and listed what they felt were the pros and cons of each boat and what the potential risk associated with all designs were. Search the archive and I think you will find some respectable data to help answer your question.

    Tight Lines

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    Member nibenza's Avatar
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    Default Agreed

    Bluemoose,

    I also agree no one should put that much weight in one, I was just pointing out it's supposed rating. I couldn't imagine trying to push/pull that kind of weight around in the rivers I hunt. I do remember reading their tests and there was is good info there.
    Life is tough........it's alot tougher if you're stupid.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Aire lists the Traveler's capacity at 750 pounds. I have found that they list fairly accurate weight maximums if you are running moderately conservative rivers. You could put more in it and still do fine some places, but I prefer to pack lighter and have more options and more safety.

    The Pro Pioneer by the same conservative guide (there is no standard here) looks like it might be rated better at 1000-1100 pounds perhaps. (I am just guessing though.) It's 4" wider and maintains it's width towards the ends more. That might make it move slower, I don't know, but it would also allow it to pack more and draw less water. It also uses a heavier fabric; 24 oz as opposed to 30 and 36 oz. The Aire has a higher denier for puncture resistance and rigidity, but the heavier coatings will wear better if used a lot.

    They are similar boats, but are designed for different purposes. To me the Pro Pioneer looks like a better hunting rig, (draws less water, packs more weight, wears better) but either would be a bit stressed packing moose, and both would flip fairly easy if broached on the side of a rock.

  6. #6

    Default

    Just for your info, Larry Bartlett was not part of the testing that was conducted on the Eagle River. BlueMoose, I don't know to many people that actually hunt on class III water so why is that even mentioned? I used the Pro P for 7 days a few weeks back and thought the boat performed quite well and several in my group took 3-4 caribou per boat and didn't have any more issues with their boat than we did. I don't know anything about the Traveler other than it's carrying capacity is quite a bit less than the Pro P.

  7. #7
    Member RANGER RICK's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I have a Pro Pioneer and just made it back after a 10 day fly in float hunt .
    There was two of us and my buddy rented one (PP) from Larry with all the goodies on his raft .
    I was most pleased with the set up with the oar saddles and I added 8 extra d rings to my raft for extra lash down points to strap our loads in tight .
    Did about 130 miles mostly class 1 with a few class 2's to make things exciting I could not Imagine doing any 3's what so ever in a Pro Pioneer .
    One of the 2's I went through bent me like a Bananna , glad I hit it perfect !!!!!! My buddy was first to hit it and he was not so lucky to manuver his raft to hit them straight on , he hit them full sideways !!!!!!
    He did not flip his raft although he jumped out of his seat and onto the side of his raft which now is the top of his raft and then a quick push off to land in his seat again.
    That made his pucker a little tighter !!!!!!!!
    Our first stream we hit we had inches of water to a foot for about 12 miles , they did great with that little of water . We did have to drag a few times .


    For loads these rafts are KING . I have never used a Aire Traveler but have looked them over and just could not purchase one . Can't say they would not fit the bill for hunting .

    Pro Pioneer double thumbs up !!!!!!

    RR
    Practice does not make perfect !!!!!
    Perfect Practice makes perfect !!!!!!!!!!


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  8. #8

    Default thankyou

    thanks for all the responses and opinions

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    Default

    "...I don't know to many people that actually hunt on class III water so why is that even mentioned?"

    I did a successful caribou hunt on the upper Talkeetna once. It was class IV for about 14 miles after that. It's actually a great place to hunt if you're prepared for the ride out. But I wouldn't use a Pro Pioneer or a Traveler to do it.

  10. #10
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default LOL Jim

    Mentioned becuase I keep hearing all the stories about what capabilities are for the Pro P. vs Travler. Personnel choice, river selection, and pucker factor. Not bashing the product just many discussions on the subject about what's what. So being me had to take the long road.

    What no one hunts Class III water Yikes! Makes me more insane than I thought. That means I can't or I should not? Shucks already do it might as well keep trucking.

    Happy Trails! Happy Hunting!

  11. #11
    Member RANGER RICK's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I honestly can say I will never take my PP down any 3's or above rivers .
    1 class is just fine for me . My knuckles were white enough just going through the few 2's on my last trip !!!!!!!!
    I got my raft for one thing and that is for hunting small back water shallow river system , carry a lot of gear and weight and not to get white water thrills .

    Although I did a thrill with the 2's on this last outing !!!!

    RR
    Practice does not make perfect !!!!!
    Perfect Practice makes perfect !!!!!!!!!!


    USS SARATOGA CV-60

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  12. #12

    Default

    Different strokes for different folks, if you feel comfortable hunting from class III and above water, by all means knock yourself out but don't downplay a product that you have no experince with. Most hunters prefer to float and enjoy what surrounds them, like me and many others that I know. I've never used a Traveler and probably never will since I know what the Pro P is capable of doing.

  13. #13
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Interesting

    From my previous post AKHunter45.

    I have been in both,and like both for their intended purpose of design. I have some issues with the Pro P however I am an AIRE type of person beucase you get what you pay for. I have seen a 60inch class moose, one person, gear for ten days in the AIRE that being said I would have had to guess close to 900 lbs and there seem to be no issues.

    J.H I think you miss the intent of my post. I actually spent over 40 hours in a Pro P the past two years. Not bashing the product or those who use them. I like them both for the intended purpose however as you have stated I lean in the other direction.

    Would I own one no however if it were the only product available and I had the need then I would lean in that direction. Cost, Warranty and Design and or design flaws concerning inflatables what a great life we have choices.

    I hope you all have a wonderful recovery this winter! See you making wakes on the water next year.

    Blue Moose

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMoose View Post
    From my previous post AKHunter45.

    I have been in both,and like both for their intended purpose of design. I have some issues with the Pro P however I am an AIRE type of person beucase you get what you pay for. I have seen a 60inch class moose, one person, gear for ten days in the AIRE that being said I would have had to guess close to 900 lbs and there seem to be no issues.

    J.H I think you miss the intent of my post. I actually spent over 40 hours in a Pro P the past two years. Not bashing the product or those who use them. I like them both for the intended purpose however as you have stated I lean in the other direction.

    Would I own one no however if it were the only product available and I had the need then I would lean in that direction. Cost, Warranty and Design and or design flaws concerning inflatables what a great life we have choices.

    I hope you all have a wonderful recovery this winter! See you making wakes on the water next year.

    Blue Moose
    Explain please what you mean by this.....I don't want to jump to any conclusions here.

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    Default pro-pioneer

    I've been looking at the pro-pioneer for awhile now and would love to have one if finances would allow. We must remember that the pro-pioneer was designed to fill a niche, that being to use it in places like small creeks etc. where big rafts aren't feasible and still be able to handle a moose as an extra passenger but it's not a do-all boat but would suit my needs quite well. All watercraft have their shortcomings in different situations which is why it's nice to have options from different companies so that we can make choices based on our needs instead of one choice and trying to make it fit all our needs.

  16. #16

    Default

    There's no doubt that the Pro P is a niche boat and is not a do all inflatable. I don't believe Larry B is targeting the whitewater crowd with his boats but several people insist on throwing it into that category only to shoot it down as not being a very good boat for class III and above water. If I was looking for a whitewater boat I would no doubt be looking at other options besides the Pro P but thats not what I do, I prefer a hunting boat for class I to high class II water and I believe thats what most people are looking for when they come here looking for raft/inflatables. I am not bashing any of the other makes, I have no experience with them but do with the Pro P and the Levitator so thats all I can speak on. Maybe someday a REAL test can be done for boats designed for float hunting, then we will all know where each boat stands.

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    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Yep that's it

    Intended purpose does well bump the warranty up change out the floor wrap to independant then it becomes one half dozen or the other :-)

    Tight Lines All have to go coach hockey.

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    Default

    Looking at both the Pro Pioneer and the Levitator, it appears they both have some very similar design purposes. They both pack a lot of weight for their size, and are narrower than conventional raft designs. Both are good in low water situations, and both are niche boats. For a lot of people on a lot of rivers they look to be nearly the ideal craft.

    Neither one was designed for heavy whitewater as it's primary focus, although both could do some and survive well, and neither will satisfy everyone. They are special purpose boats that just happen to fit the niche that many Alaskan hunters want. No surprise in that, since they were obviously designed with that or similar purposes in mind.

    They also have limitations (limitations come with any boat design). They are narrow, and that is both good and bad. Narrow generally means more apt to tip in some situation, but it also means they can fit through narrower places. Long and narrow generally mean they flex more longitudinally, and might have a difficult time in some large/steep waves.

    The Aire Traveler looks to be designed for a different purpose, more of a general purpose inflatable canoe rather than a low water narrow raft. I could do a little white water, a little weight packing, and little paddling on a lake, etc. It seems to be less a niche boat and more of a "do a lot of things" type craft. But that also limits it from doing anything as well as a special purpose boat that is designed for more limited types of situations.

    I've never been in any of them, but it's not hard to look at them and see what they ought to do well, and ought not to do well. And like I said, for a lot of Alaskan hunters they should be nearly the ideal craft. Personally, I'm just glad we have choices like these, but I doubt I will ever buy any one of them.

  19. #19
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Back in the saddle-

    Hi guys,

    Just returned from a brown bear float hunt (yes, there was some Class III involved, but we were moving out of the hunting area by that time).

    I think some good points are being made here, and I'll see if I can add a log to the fire without burning the place down...

    INFLATABLE CANOE TEST

    I hosted the canoe test that has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread. As I have said in this forum many times, I am not a canoe hunter. Nothing wrong with it of course, it's just not my choice of a primary craft for hunting, for a variety of reasons. But I have spent a bit of time on the water, and have used my experiences to venture some opinions on SOAR boats in general, and the PP in particular, along with several other canoes. I was challenged to "put up or shut up" (my words, not theirs) by some of the loyal fans of the SOAR boats, and elected to do so in the form of a series of tests involving the PP, the AIRE Traveler, the Incept Canoe, the Grabner Canoe, and two of Jim King's inflatable canoes. I thought these represented a good cross section of which inflatable canoes folks are using in Alaska for hunting. For the record, those present included Larry Bartlett, Tracey Harmon, and Jim King (these men were there to lend a hand and to see that "their" boats got a fair shake). Tom "Rutting Moose" from Eagle River came along just to observe, and of course I was there too. The folks actually doing the testing were whitewater canoists that came highly recommended from Knik Canoers and Kayakers, a well known recreational canoe / kayak organization in the area. The testers were Jack Mosby (co-author of the "Alaska Paddling Guide" and as sage a canoeist as you're likely to run across anywhere), Pat and Heather Fleming (tandem canoe experts and instructors), and Rich Crain, a whitewater canoe instructor of many years. All of these folks represent considerable expertise in this field and would, I thought, be more than qualified to venture opinions on these boats.

    The tests were conducted in October, 2004, on Eagle River, Alaska. This river was chosen because it was accessible to all participants, and because it offered a good mix of whitewater and flat water needed for the tests. Because the tests took place in a single day, and October days in Alaska are short on daylight, it was not possible to complete all the tests. An impromptu conference was held with the paddlers, and all of them agreed that it was not necessary to conduct the heavy load tests in whitewater (they did this on flat water), nor was it necessary to conduct the "does it fit?" test, as this could be extrapolated from the interior dimensions of the boats. Note- this last test was intended to place a simulated hunting load in each boat to see what actually would fit in the boat. We ran out of time and could not conduct this test. At the time the decision was made to scrap this last test, no objections were voiced by any of the folks participating or observing the process.

    Following the water tests, I compiled additional data and published the results on my website < http://www.michaelstrahan.net > in April 2005. The Canoe Test Article contained data from the following areas:

    1. Warranty and Customer Service Issues
    2. Features, Construction and Materials
    3. Storage, Dry-Land Handling Characteristics
    4. Performance With Light, Medium, and Heavy Loads


    I have since pulled that report offline, because it was being used by detractors to fuel debates elsewhere. A considerable amount of effort, by a lot of good people, went into that report, and I will not have it used as cannon fodder by people who are more interested in personal attacks than in a cogent discussion of inflatable canoes. That said, I would be willing to email it to those who are trying to evaluate a canoe for hunting or other expedition purposes. Whether I post it online again remains to be seen.

    A "REAL" TEST

    Someone in this thread asked for a "real" canoe test (presumably mine was not real to them). I would say that the only other "real" tests are those happening each fall by people using inflatable canoes for hunting. Talk to them, as I have. Their results are nearly identical to those I posted in my report nearly two and a half years ago. Be careful though. Unlike the testers I used, the experience level of many canoe hunters is very limited. I have discovered this myself by asking them how much actual field experience they possess, and discovering that some of the most vocal proponents of one or another type of boat have only been on one or two float hunts, or in some cases, none at all! Ask these guys how much inflatable canoe experience they have, and in what type of conditions. That will help you sort the wheat from the chaff. There is a considerable amount of experience represented in many of the writers in these forums, and those who claim such experience will not be offended in the least if you ask them to comment privately.

    I hope it helps! You are certainly in the right place for these kinds of questions.

    Kindest regards,

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
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  20. #20
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Au Contraire!

    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45 View Post
    Just for your info, Larry Bartlett was not part of the testing that was conducted on the Eagle River...
    Actually, Larry drove all the way down from Fairbanks just to be on site. He was involved as much as Tracey Harmon and Jim King (the other manufacturer representatives who were there). In fact, Larry actually filmed some of the testing process. He also participated in a pre-test briefing along with the others and agreed to the test criteria.



    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

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