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Thread: Bullet Weight Retention

  1. #1

    Default Bullet Weight Retention

    I was lucky enough to get a nice ram on the second day. I was shooting 180 gr nosler partitions out of a 30-06 at 90 yards. Found the round while field dressing and brought it home. The bullet mushroomed nicely and didn't appear to fragment much. I just weighed it and it was 116 grains. I expected a lot more retention. Any thoughts....

    gbt

  2. #2

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    That's just about right on the money for Noslers, and frankly I'm surprised you were able to recover it after a 90 yard shot. In my almost 40 years of shooting partitions I expect 60-70% weight retention on the few I manage to recover. Check my math, but 116 grains is 64%- right in the middle of that range. Recovered weight runs up or down a little depending upon impact velocity and what it hit, but I don't think I've ever seen one drop below 60% even at close range, or run higher than 75%, except when range really stretched and impact velocity dropped a lot.

    I can't speak for you, but I'd be darned proud to have recovered it to go along with your ram. Dandy trophy. Heavier built bullets don't kill any better, and I never get the chance to recover them. As it is, I've got a fair pile of bullets recovered from game over the years, and each one has a story to tell. Hang onto that bullet, cuzz you're gonna love it in about 20 years!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbt View Post
    I was lucky enough to get a nice ram on the second day. I was shooting 180 gr nosler partitions out of a 30-06 at 90 yards. Found the round while field dressing and brought it home. The bullet mushroomed nicely and didn't appear to fragment much. I just weighed it and it was 116 grains. I expected a lot more retention. Any thoughts....

    gbt
    It sounds like the 180-grain Partition worked perfectly. At 90 yards it's moving pretty fast, and some lead is lost from the front portion of the nose on impact. The whole nose portion sometimes fragments and separates from the rest, leaving the base portion of the bullet, and the jacket plowing though. It's often possible for a weight retention of 60-70% from a Partition, so yours did very well.

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    Default Nosler 200 grain AccuBond?

    Does anyboby have thoughts on the Nosler 200 grain AccuBond for a 300 Win Mag. I will be going on a moose hunt this fall and decided to try this cartridge instead of the winchester fail safe.

    Thanks

  5. #5
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    That's just about right on the money for Noslers, and frankly I'm surprised you were able to recover it after a 90 yard shot. In my almost 40 years of shooting partitions I expect 60-70% weight retention on the few I manage to recover. Check my math, but 116 grains is 64%- right in the middle of that range. Recovered weight runs up or down a little depending upon impact velocity and what it hit, but I don't think I've ever seen one drop below 60% even at close range, or run higher than 75%, except when range really stretched and impact velocity dropped a lot.....
    That's pretty much what I've found. Nosler Partitions 180 grain have averaged about 70% retention for me in moose.

    I'm changing to Swift A-Frames. I think they'll retain more weight. I shot a caribou with them a couple of years ago, but I was unable to find a slug in the hurried conditions we field dressed the thing.

    I've been thinking of going to 200 grain (30 cal.) exclusively, too.

  6. #6
    Member Marc Taylor's Avatar
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    Default Dud Round!

    Call Range Control.

    90 yards without a pass-through...

    I don't know...

    But Congratulations!

    Taylor

  7. #7

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    Thanks for the feedback Brownbear (et al). Sounds like me round did what it was supposed to do.

    Thanks again.

    gbt

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbt View Post
    I was lucky enough to get a nice ram on the second day. I was shooting 180 gr nosler partitions out of a 30-06 at 90 yards. Found the round while field dressing and brought it home. The bullet mushroomed nicely and didn't appear to fragment much. I just weighed it and it was 116 grains. I expected a lot more retention. Any thoughts....

    gbt

    Switch to a Barnes TSX in 165 or 168 grain and aim for the shoulder. I shot my ram at 163 yards with a 300WSM shooting a 165 TSX, hit him high in the left shoulder (steep angle straight down) and it exited low in the right shoulder and kept on going. Busted both shoulders up enough to take running gear out but didn't damage too much meat and the wound channel inside was quite impressive. Looks like a nice hole going in and a nice hole going out but the wound channel was massive. Even Snyd (my partner) remarked how it knocked the ram completely off his feet. I am sold on the Barnes TSX's.

  9. #9
    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Default I bought some 200 grn Swift A Frames

    for my brown bear hunt. They don't look any bigger than the winchester Accubonds I have in 180grns. You would think there would be a size difference in the bullet. I will take both as I have never used the A frames. Maybe have every other one in my mag. I never recovered the Accubond from my spring bear, left a lot of damage to the rib cage though. My dads bear we recovered the jacket from a 200 grn or whatever it would be for a .338 Corelokt. no lead just the jacket and no exit wound or lead in the meat or guts from what we seen. Just the copper jacket. Another reason I quit useing them in my 300 is I had two misfires in a row. Looking forward to recovering a bullet or two from a brownie. I am also thinking if I am lucky enought to get one I might fire my .44 mag into the body and also the other rifle cartridge that i don't use just to see how they do, although it will put holes in the hide and the animal will already be dead, but will be a good test for the bullets i think.

  10. #10
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Default

    "I was lucky enough to get a nice ram on the second day. I was shooting 180 gr nosler partitions out of a 30-06 at 90 yards. Found the round while field dressing and brought it home. The bullet mushroomed nicely and didn't appear to fragment much. I just weighed it and it was 116 grains. I expected a lot more retention. Any thoughts...."

    PERFECT - exactly John Nosler's goal with partitions...he wanted about 64% retention. It was his goal that the front partition shear off and fragment shortly after impact and the larger rear partition was to continue on penetrating essentially as a solid. Beauty is as beauty does.

  11. #11

    Default Good performance

    I'd say that Nosler did it's job. It took some abuse busting up that ram at short distance.

    I shot a caribou with a Triple Shock last week. 225 gr from my .338 at 110 yards. The bull kind of hunched a bit, turned around, and fell over. The exit hole was about two inches in diameter. It did a pretty good job on the rib meat. I did not hit the heart, but there was plenty of lung damage.

    Last year I shot a sheep and a goat with Hornady Interlocks. I don't think the Interlock exited the goat, but I never did find it. The Interlock did exit the sheep, but it didn't make much of a hole. The sheep took a second shot. The goat died almost instantly. Go figure.

  12. #12
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by shphtr View Post
    PERFECT - exactly John Nosler's goal with partitions...he wanted about 64% retention. It was his goal that the front partition shear off and fragment shortly after impact and the larger rear partition was to continue on penetrating essentially as a solid. Beauty is as beauty does.
    Is there an advantage to a 36% fragmentation of the bullet? I would think 100% retention combined with mushrooming appropriate to the velocity/impact media would be the ideal.

  13. #13

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    I'll let him speak for himself, but in my experience it's a valid statement. Long use has proven Nosler's design to be effective on game- in spite of weight loss rather than because of it. Full weight retention is a relatively recent phenomenon, even if it was worshipped as the holy grail when it was only a theory and long before any bullet could do it while expanding. It's certainly proven itself worthy of praise, but that doesn't mean the Noslers don't work. They do, I guess by embarrassing an animal to death because it was shot with a bullet that lost a third of its weight.

  14. #14
    Mark
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    No badmouthing of Nosler Partitions here. They've worked for me.

    There was a study conducted by somebody several years ago where they shot 30 caliber, 180 grain bullets from most of the then current quality hunting bullets at velocities ranging from about 2100 fps to some 3500 fps at 100 fps intervals into a media, then showing weight retention, mushrooming diameter, penetration depth, and even a photo of each recovered bullet at each velocity. It was a very interesting chart. I had a link to a website showing the chart, but I can't seem to find it now.

    When I first saw this study, I was immediately impressed with the performance of the Swift A-Frame. At all velocities it boasted a 95% weight retention and mushroomed perfectly in accordance with velocity.

  15. #15
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
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    Post Handloader Magazine

    Mark,

    I think the chart in question was from Handloader Magazine, #193. I have a massive file (too big to post here) of a scan, but a good web search might find it elsewhere in a more manageable version. The author is Gary Sciuchetti.

    Impact velocities from 3100 to 1400fps. 39 different bullets. Pretty rigorous methodology. Worth looking.

  16. #16
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8x57 Mauser View Post
    Mark,

    I think the chart in question was from Handloader Magazine, #193. I have a massive file (too big to post here) of a scan, but a good web search might find it elsewhere in a more manageable version. The author is Gary Sciuchetti......
    Thanks for that 8x57. You're right. I found it here, but it's unreadable.

    It was a real interesting comparison, all right.

  17. #17
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shphtr View Post
    "I was lucky enough to get a nice ram on the second day. I was shooting 180 gr nosler partitions out of a 30-06 at 90 yards. Found the round while field dressing and brought it home. The bullet mushroomed nicely and didn't appear to fragment much. I just weighed it and it was 116 grains. I expected a lot more retention. Any thoughts...."

    PERFECT - exactly John Nosler's goal with partitions...he wanted about 64% retention. It was his goal that the front partition shear off and fragment shortly after impact and the larger rear partition was to continue on penetrating essentially as a solid. Beauty is as beauty does.
    shphtr pretty much nailed it. I've heard a lot of complaining over the years about Nosler bullets doing exactly what they were designed to do...shed the nose while the partitioned section penetrates. Too many preconceptions of what a recovered Partition is supposed to look like based on magazine adds featuring other bullets shot into ballistic jelly.

    Another thing to remember is the Nosler Partition is a pioneering design. It's one of the very first (if not thee first) custom bullets. 50-60 years ago quality control and thus bullet peformance of mass-produced factory ammo was generally lacking. Factory bullets tended to disintegrate. Except for large bore solids, penetration was iffy especially on larger game.

    Nosler literally revolutionized bullet performance and provided the foundations (and market base) for future and better innnovations.

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